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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A)

 
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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:25:04 PM   
ny59giants


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Engines - What would you increase and/or decrease here?? This mod is based on DBB air frame data.




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:30:24 PM   
ny59giants


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Here are the always important fighter production and R&D efforts. Do I need to make changes here?? Do you need more info??




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:33:30 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

Do you need more info??

I'm curious still about your ideal pool level for Armaments.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:35:20 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Victory disease claims another victim.


Its been a hard thing to avoid in this game due to the multiple one sided victories I've had at sea. I've lost CVE Hosho and 7 DD vs 7 CV (4 USA and 3 Brit), 4 CVL, 4 BC, 7 BB, 15 CA, 17 CL, 2 CLAA, and 37 DD. Add in the almost total destruction of troops that start or are early reinforcement in India/Burma along with significant conquest in China. How would you deal with it, Jeff??


I don't know, you have so many toys and I am unfamiliar with the mod. But those 20cm guns are too far forward. Luganville...who cares if that falls? In fact, you need to entice the Allies to attack there rather than planning a 7 division strike at Tavoy (well, where-ever you are weakest).


You are defending so far forward, and the Allies have almost perfect intel about your force dispositions, that really only the most inept of Allied Commanders will attack your strongpoints. They always go where you are weakest.

In this game, the Allies can't really invade anywhere big (for awhile) without luring the KB to the far side of the world and getting surprise.

The Allies are almost always only three invasions away from bombing Honshu. The initiative turns so fast...





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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:44:15 PM   
ny59giants


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Ok, here are locations for large CD units




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:46:31 PM   
ny59giants


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Here are the locations for smaller CD units.




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:55:10 PM   
Lowpe


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This game should go very deep into 1945.

Make sure your night fighters are up to snuff.

You want to make sure you get Frank R & Sam asap (I see 9/44?). Shinden and Ki83 are nice additions.

Your supplies are low. Ideally you would like to get to 6 million plus before 1945. 7 million even better.

You have turned off armaments? You will need every drop of them if you plan on fighting the Soviets which you should be.

You have repaired all your oil...good. Don't repair the refineries. Vehicles looks good. Might want to bump to 230 -- thinking about soviet fighting here eventually.

What are your merchant shipyards making? Your naval yards are huge!

Your daily ship fuel use is high.

This is a game which might be in position to pull off a NJP/Radar invasion of the Soviets. The caveat here is you are running very light on supplies so I would say no to that idea.


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Post #: 157
RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 2:55:25 PM   
ny59giants


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Weakest: I would say Java and Sumatra. Palembang, Batavia, and Soerabaja have some forces present but the rest of the islands are mostly empty. Brian has not built up any of western Australia. Japan's limited SigInt shows Sydney, Brisbane, and SoPac bases with activity. I have a division plus support at Carnarvon, a slowly expanding Exmouth, and large base at Port Hedland. In India, I have the southern portion and the islands to west. 4 Mogami Class and 8 DD at Colombo are the only surface forces over here.

Except for eastern Aleutians and SoPac, Brian hasn't shown any other points of interest....yet!

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 3:10:50 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Your supplies are low. Ideally you would like to get to 6 million plus before 1945. 7 million even better.


I managed to get about 400k last month in supplies, so I hope to be headed in right direction. I think I was overdoing base building and by turning almost all of it off has helped.

quote:

Your daily ship fuel use is high.


My warships have remained mostly inactive. My merchant fleet is busy getting resources back to Japan and the oil. Don't know how to get better results here.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 5:37:56 PM   
ny59giants


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Getting Resources back to Japan. Brian has been very busy with his subs up here from early in the war. One reason I'm willing to fight for control of Aleutians. Don't need more subs up here! There is usually 4 subs just to east of Ominato, too.




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< Message edited by ny59giants -- 11/6/2017 5:39:00 PM >

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/6/2017 5:59:25 PM   
Zecke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Here are the always important fighter production and R&D efforts. Do I need to make changes here?? Do you need more info??





in my opinionsss; Build KI-84b as many to UPGRADE if so.

if really stop them.

Build as much as you can N1K4-A-GEORGE

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 9:58:57 AM   
ny59giants


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My favorite AA DD to be placed in all four KB TFs in the coming months. Love their Endurance, too. The two TFs at Tulagi have most of them so far. Since I spent the Naval Shipbuilding points to accelerate many of them so I get the 8/43 upgrade version. Sweet!!




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< Message edited by ny59giants -- 11/7/2017 10:01:59 AM >

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:07:22 AM   
ny59giants


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Attention any new BTS and BTS Lite Japanese players. This is what you can do with the CVL to CV for this Class CVL/CV. These two will end up with KB-4 (Junyo & Hiyo) and 4x CVLs.




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:13:51 AM   
ny59giants


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xAP to CVE conversions result in 5 Kaiyo Class CVEs. I wasn't paying attention in mid-42 when this was possible, but mine are done now. Since each can carry 24 planes, mine are first going into my Replenishment TFs to provide ASW protection for my precious AOs.




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:21:29 AM   
ny59giants


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Three new, but smaller CS Adatar Class were added. So, you should be able to convert the two Chitose Class CS to CVL in early 42.




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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:23:57 AM   
Zecke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

My favorite AA DD to be placed in all four KB TFs in the coming months. Love their Endurance, too. The two TFs at Tulagi have most of them so far. Since I spent the Naval Shipbuilding points to accelerate many of them so I get the 8/43 upgrade version. Sweet!!






Depth CHarge NEW...SINK de I_400 class

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:40:06 AM   
ny59giants


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Part of Kaigun is at Tokyo (future deployment to Aleutians) and Yokohama (for upgrades).

Tokyo:
SC TF: 4x Myoko Class CA, 8 DD
KB-4: CV Junyo & Hiyo, 4x CVL, 2x small CS, 9 DDs
5x Kaiyo Class CVEs

Yokohama:
Completed upgrades - 4x CL, 12x DD (part of two SC TF)
KB-1: another 1/2 month until 4x Shokaku Class CV (Shokaku, Zuikaku, Taikuka, Kaimon), 8x CL, 4x Myoko Class CA, 19 DD, and BC Ishitaka are all completed. Their air groups will be with 2nd gen George which are CV capable in this mod, 2nd gen Judy, and 1st gen Jills.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 10:42:13 AM   
ny59giants


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Since Brian sent me the wrong files last night, you get all this useful info.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 12:35:46 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

mine are first going into my Replenishment TFs to provide ASW protection for my precious AOs.





That is a mistake. There is no bonus or synergy using CVE in ASW role. They simply become the hunted. You are better off using a light cruiser as a task force commander, checking tanker captains, and if you feel the need throw in an AV and don't stray from heavy aerially patrolled lanes.

You can use them at level 3+ ports, docked, flying ASW.

Plus, how much of a fuel hog are these guys? They look fairly decent for a CVE.

Poor General Patton, I hope he got lots of toys too. My guess, is that he got his nose bloodied, and Japan is so beefed up in this game, it will devolve into superstacks in mid 1944 and on and feature kitchen sink invasions. Be interesting to see how you counter a 1000 ship, 5 divisions, 1 million supply invasion.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 11/7/2017 12:41:09 PM >

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 1:15:51 PM   
ny59giants


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Many of the Allied toys were sunk - hybrid CLV, French BCs, and extra Brit ships. The Allies don’t get much extra from ‘43 and beyond. There are some extra airframes abilty to buy more. Brian wanted to double PP to 120 which helps both sides.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 1:44:23 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Many of the Allied toys were sunk - hybrid CLV, French BCs, and extra Brit ships. The Allies don’t get much extra from ‘43 and beyond. There are some extra airframes abilty to buy more. Brian wanted to double PP to 120 which helps both sides.


Ouch. He is going to have a long hard slog, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a full year of almost no activity unless you attack.

I am in awe of your work with these mods, I just think they need more balancing. When I mentioned this in the mod thread...it simply is ignored, while augmenting Japan gets tons of posts.

You guys have so augmented the Japanese, without any couter-balancing weakness. For example, if they put all this effort into the IJN, then it seems to me that the IJA should be weakened rather substantially. Less Heavy Divisions, less Tanks, Less IJAAF squadrons, later arrivals. But that is not the case, and it simply forces the game into a longer Japan running riot, encourages a greater Sir Robin followed by kitchen sink invasions. I personally would like to see the game tempo slow down, and there be a stronger emphasis on diverse operations. My unasked for two cents.

When I played Jocke, the small TOE improvements Japan got seemed to me to have a very big impact. More IJA 43 squads especially in naval units, lots of CS tanks (incredibly powerful in China), it just seemed to really change the ground dynamic.

The extra Allied toys don't seem to be anywhere near the game changers that Japan gets.

Of course the weakness that Japan suffers from is industry,fuel and oil, but so very few AFBs ever understand that and almost nobody capitalizes on it.

I mentioned prior, that the Allies will either need to lure the KB to the far side of the world to accomplish an invasion and very likely suffer greatly in the IJ countstrike...or simply await mid 44. My guess is they will await mid 44.




< Message edited by Lowpe -- 11/7/2017 3:07:09 PM >

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 3:35:03 PM   
ny59giants


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RA was done mostly by John 3rd and FatR. I didn't come in as a major voice until FatR had left and John had seen how imbalance it was vs Canoerebel (Dan). At that time, I had very little experience with Japan except for the economy as I learned how to run it using Tracker when John and Dan had played their epic WITP game. John's economic issues were well known back then.

I advocated for some changes for the Allies, but really didn't get more involved until BTS and BTS Lite were being developed by John. John's vision for these were to make Japan more competitive in late 43 and into early 44 with a 'what if' premise that Japan made better decisions for the last 10 years before the war, but was mainly IJN focused. I got John to play me and we had gotten to early '43. I had lost all of Hawaii and most of the ships there. He had pushed down to Tahiti area. I was in process of landing in western Australia with the kitchen sink, but he got overwhelmed trying to play three PBEM games and it ended.

I was able to get my very first PBEM opponent, 1EyedJack to play as Japan. I don't think he realized that the Allies were stronger at start and could deal with part of KB, but not the whole KB. I achieved victories in Java Sea in Feb 42 and then off eastern Celebes a month later. The Allied CV were hurt badly, but I was able to limp them to Darwin and eventually to safety. He ended that game.

There was then a brief game with Cribtop.

During all this, BTS/BTSL were undergoing updates.

I got Brian (Gen Patton) to play with me as Japan and him as Allies. He wanted to use RHS, so we did. However, the economy there is so much different that I requested a restart with BTSL. The first two ended in late 42 and mid-42 due to economic issues with the mod (fuel use for HI and then resource usage for LI). Our current game was the last version before the most recent ones came out. So, I was able to play the same opponent three times before this game. I'm not an advanced player in my own estimation. However, Brian had never played the Allies past mid-42 before he played against me. I had seen some patterns in his play that I was able to take advantage of. He lost 4 major naval encounters in decisive manner. I was able to achieve significant victories in Burma/India and hopefully soon in China.

IMO, my skill level and knowledge of this mod may have been a reason he has almost quit. I didn't think his skill level was that much different than mine. I don't think a JFB could have done as well as I have done. Once we get to 44 and the tide has turned decisively to the Allies, I'll seek another opponent with me going back to the Allies.

Some players may agree with you, Professor Lowpe. Japan has a better at start position, but maybe the Allied player needs to educate himself more on what has changed for both sides. That's why the mod needs to be played out to see if the balance is too much in favor of Japan. Part of me would like to get to 46. I've only made it to April 44 before my opponent quit.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/7/2017 4:38:08 PM   
Lowpe


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And that is why you are playing the games...to fine tune them and have fun! The game doesn't need to be balanced to be fun imho, but I am sure I am in the minority there. As long as the people playing are having fun and enjoying it.

Has any game made 46?

Just the one change to the Sam, moving up its arrival date to 9/44 (which I take from your earlier screen post), in the hands of a decent JFB, means that all those wonderful new carriers could be flying Sam in Feb of 1944 at a fairly modest r&d expenditure or 9/44 without any. Ouch! But add in all the changes that materially strengthen Japan at super critical points and to me it seems overwhelming. Would not the Americans, seeing the Japanese expansion have done more...accelerating Essex and Fletchers for example. I guess it becomes a never ending circle...and I am not smart enough to figure it out.

Fair disclosure, I am a scenario 1 JFB and I think scenario 2 is too generous...so I guess I am extreme.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/8/2017 7:56:22 AM   
ny59giants


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I'm still an AFB at heart, but like my 'what if' type mods as long as they don't get into too much of fantasy land. Ultimately, this is John 3rd's mod and I often get my 2 cents becoming reality, but not always. This version does have the Sam coming in early, but the engine is still far enough out that actual builds may not be as far forward as one would hope. He has focused on improving the IJN with better hindsight of events in the 30s. So instead of the Japanese running around until maybe early 43, it goes to early 44. I have told Brian from the beginning I hope to get to 46 as that so rarely happens. I talk with John frequently, so the idea of advancing production of American shipping has occurred. We will find out in the months ahead if that is needed.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/8/2017 10:48:09 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The first two ended in late 42 and mid-42 due to economic issues with the mod (fuel use for HI and then resource usage for LI).


So what are the economic changes? It sounds like J III pushed up HI bt not oil production and LI without increasing resource production?

I love the crazy toys and what ifs of the mods, but agree that if Japan was so obviously stronger in the war the Allies would have either balanced he equation with more and better airframes and a higher proportion of army and naval forces going to the Pacific or they would have simply waited a few years until production ramped up.

In the former case I would advocate for Ranger and more CVEs to be added plus more RN CVs, and more USN DDs. I'd also say the submariners would have in "hindsight" complained more loudly and effectively to have torpedoes that worked by early 42 and that early versions of Spitfires, P-38s, P47s, Mustangs, a lot more 4Es and 2Es plus the logistical support for them would be available by mid-42. Corsairs could even have been made CV ready and increased in numbers before the Hellcat arrives.

Hell, why not some Lancaster and Halifax as well! A bunch of Sunderlands and Costal Command Libs. Later on more Mostquitos and other cool British planes.

I would also advocate for earlier upgrades to the Bofors and 5inch dual purpose guns for all surface ships plus be able to convert more cruiser hulls to CVL earlier. All WC ground units should be free to move, including the massive armor division, and more US troops that went to North Africa would be diverted to the Pacific.

That would be fun. Having the 8th AF move to the Pacific to train up for Europe!! Having a submarine force that worked when it counts, and being able to hit hard on the ground from day 1. Having Patton and other good USA generals and commanders in the Pacific war and with their forces ready to roll!!

That said I'd take on this mod any day and just play it for what it is, but with the knowledge from day 1 that it's a defensive war for the Allies and as a consequence pretty boring for a few years.

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/8/2017 10:55:06 AM >


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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/8/2017 12:35:37 PM   
ny59giants


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The economy had the HI need 4 vs 2 fuel to produce, so I was running way behind. It wasn't until near the end of 42 that I figured this out. Somehow, this had been changed in Editor and neither John nor I had done so. The second time, the number of Resource for LI had been increased. Again, neither one of us had done so. This version also had supply generated by Refineries like Scen 2 and DBB 30. The newest goes back to no supplies from refineries. Oil is lower and HI higher at start to reflect some prewar expansions of Naval Shipbuilding.

The Allies do start out with more ships either in Pacific or arriving early in war. Many airframes have their production numbers increased and for some the time for production increased (many recon models as I have complained about the lack of for a long time) . We use JuanG Airframe Purchase system so for 2 to 4 days worth of PP (which now is up to 75/day) most models can be bought.

John got a book on hybrid warships and there are the American, NZ, and Aussie CLV at start that can be converted to full CVLs. American AOs can convert to CVEs.

The American Armored Division that come and goes to Europe in Dec 42 can now be bought out, but needs 6 months worth of Sherman to fill out their TO&E. China is stronger in non-infantry devices by at least 50% and more supply. Same with some CW devices.

In this version of the mod, Gen Patton wanted to go from 60 to 120 PP. So, rather than wait until 43 or later, many Allied troops can leave their country earlier. Even with 75 PP for newest version, Japan better be prepared for sooner invasions and some bases having more troops than a SNLF Assault division can handle. Those ADs are just combining 3 SNLF units with a few more devices, but are rather brittle if they go up against regular American troops.

If you and Professor Lowpe have the time, download the latest BTS/BTS Lite versions and give John and me feedback.

Thanks!!

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/8/2017 8:25:47 PM   
offenseman


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Enjoying this AAR very much. The give and take amongst so many of the most respected forum members has me taking notes. I have a spent a few weeks delving into BTS from the Japanese side and am considering trying to find an Allied BTS opponent in the near future. Here are my impressions on a few things.

1. The economy is so short of HI that India is a must have, or at least several of the major cities, Calcutta being #1, Madras high on the list as well. There simply are not enough HI centers elsewhere on the map in the quantities the Japanese need to build stockpiles of HI and Supplies for the late game. Oz has some but it is mostly south of the reinforcement line and is still less than India even if 100% taken. That is the great equalizer to the IJ toys. An A player or in this case one who is a great player and has great knowledge of the mod being an A+ player, can take advantage of this limitation. A player who is less skilled or has certain holes in their skillset (me for example) might not be able to do what is needed to ensure the amount of HI is taken and for long enough to build those stockpiles. I submit that for the "B" or less player, the toys are needed.

2. I've played PBEM Scen 1 and several DBB-C games into 44 and 45 and consider it hard to break the economy of those. This economy is much easier to break not just for the reasons above but because when I crunch the numbers long term there appears to be a razors edge of what one can spend in terms of a/c-eng builds. The edge being between having not enough and having too many (killing the economy) In DBB-C and Scen 1 you can build 1000 too many Zeros for example and still be ok. In this, no way. This is also a limiter that makes up for the toys. not everyone would be able to keep the economy going AND have the aircraft needed in 44-45. The balance very hard to achieve.

I think the set ups have been masterfully done; the toys balance the economy as the designers set out to do. Maybe for the cream of players, that upper 10%, they are too much, but perhaps for the rest of us, they are just right. For a competitive long term game...

My only change would be this and it goes to the point that given all the influence the IJN had, the Army would be weaker....

3. China garrisons. As someone who has never played one turn as Allies, I have to admit that the garrison requirements in China are exciting. They free up so much AV that taking China seems almost a foregone conclusion, barring terrible luck. Or at the least a long term siege of CK. To simulate the Army being weaker, increase the garrisons a bit more. Maybe an extra 30-50% beyond what they are now but structured as this is, to make being able to garrison more efficient.





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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/9/2017 12:16:01 AM   
offenseman


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Haven't just seen the changes you made to BTS regarding non-squad replacements, etc. Perhaps I spoke too soon about ease of conquest.

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RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/9/2017 12:36:56 AM   
ny59giants


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O-man:
HI has been increased in some Allied bases in places like Manila and Java. I adjusted the levels and they are between stock 1 and DBB 30 at start. There is a cost to to IJN pre-war expansion. You need quick conquest of the SRA/DEI for HI and Oil.

John and myself have been a fan of giving players options, but having a cost. With the newest version you now have THREE potential CV capable fighters (Sam, George, and Jack). You cannot have them all. Well, maybe you can, but something else will not be built.

The IJN means lots of new ships as we streamlined the various classes through numerous revisions. You cannot afford everything. Right now, I have most of my sub construction halted.

China - There is over 50% increase in non-infantry devices and more supplies that can be generated and come in automatically. Most Allied bases start with forts at 3 or better.

I hope you have Tracker up and running to assist you.

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Post #: 179
RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J)... - 11/9/2017 12:46:00 AM   
ny59giants


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Joined: 1/10/2005
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Professor Lowpe warned me of "victory disease." I should have listened more as it took all of April before last turn for the Allies to have ANY offensive air mission. Part of KB and company are at Tulagi....19 hexes from Koumac.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Apr 25, 43
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Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 26

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 60
B-24D1 Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 30 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
AKE Terukawa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS I-171, Bomb hits 1
SS I-122, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
DD Asagiri, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS I-126, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Kasumi, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
ACM Tama Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS I-121, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
SS I-125, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AR Akashi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Akikaze, Bomb hits 1
SS I-127, Bomb hits 1
SS I-124, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
PB Bunzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PB Okuyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PB Hirotama Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Fubuki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS I-168, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS I-21, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AG Mamiya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
PB Hakkaisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AKE Turuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes

Massive explosion on SS I-127

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 12
B-24D1 Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 9 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 4 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
DD Odonami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
AG Mamiya, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AKE Terukawa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Fubuki, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Choko Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS I-25, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
AR Akashi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PB Taiko Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes

Training flight from 21st Sentai has been caught up in attack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
SS I-127, Bomb hits 1
SS I-172, Bomb hits 1
DD Akikaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
SS I-122, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS I-123, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
SS I-171, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
PB Taikei Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS I-172, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Akikaze, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AR Akashi, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS I-25, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AKE Turuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS I-127, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AKE Terukawa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ACM Noshiro Maru #2, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Odonami, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
45 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 20000.
Raid is overhead
Renkaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes

Training flight from 204 Ku S-1 has been caught up in attack
Training flight from Renkaku-1 has been caught up in attack


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 6
N1K1-J George x 14

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
PB Okiyu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 200 minutes
Renkaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 74 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Dutch Harbor (171,50)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12824 troops, 163 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 370

Defending force 9058 troops, 56 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 23

Japanese adjusted assault: 149

Allied adjusted defense: 21

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Dutch Harbor !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
9667 casualties reported
Squads: 135 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 781 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 80 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 82 (82 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 55 (55 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 6

Assaulting units:
Karafuto Mixed Brigade
2nd Sasebo Assault Division

Defending units:
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
Dutch Harbor USN Base Force
NoPac Area
802nd Aviation Engineer Battalion
802nd Cmbt Engineer Battalion
132nd Base Sqdn



(in reply to ny59giants)
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