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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 6:58:25 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I'm not going to castigate you for your tactics, Canoerebel. I always enjoy your AARs and recognize this is a game and you are simply combating Obvert's tactics in equal measure. I do not fault you for it.

Nonetheless, I wonder if the US would have the political willpower and its populace the lenience to allow so many ships and men to be sacrificed in the way they have been in the battles around Shikuka. I have no doubt that the Japanese would have been absolutely willing to sacrifice their men in such a manner. I guess the question would be if the admiral that allowed so many men to die in such a way would have been sacked and court-martialed. Probably a pointless debate about factors outside the game, but something to think about. I wonder if this could be represented by upping the point values of Allied troops, ships and planes.

Now for the game going forward itself, what are your plans going forward once Shikuka is re-consolidated? Will you simply try to do a strat bombing campaign to eke out the VPs for a win? What will you do if Obvert is able to inflict unacceptable casualties on your remaining strat bombers?

Hey, if the Soviet Union could have a Georgian dictator, why not the US! Absolute power must be used without pity!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 1051
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:01:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		It depends on the leadership.

If the Allies had somehow managed to get caught in a box canyon like this one, and if the Japanese had overwhelming power, what do you think a leader like George Patton would have done? I think he would have used every asset at hand in every way possible, especially if it seemed that just a few days might buy enough time for the cavalry to arrive.

What if the leader were Archer Vandegrift or Joe Stillwell?

What if it was a man of less willpower and resolve?

In these circumstances, I think the Allies would have done just the same. Remember, this isn't 1944 with a vanishing Japanese air force and navy. This is 1944 with an uber Japanese air force and a strong navy and the Allies starting far behind and facing the most desperate of situations.

There's no doubt what a committed leader would have done.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I'm not going to castigate you for your tactics, Canoerebel. I always enjoy your AARs and recognize this is a game and you are simply combating Obvert's tactics in equal measure. I do not fault you for it.

Nonetheless, I wonder if the US would have the political willpower and its populace the lenience to allow so many ships and men to be sacrificed in the way they have been in the battles around Shikuka. I have no doubt that the Japanese would have been absolutely willing to sacrifice their men in such a manner. I guess the question would be if the admiral that allowed so many men to die in such a way would have been sacked and court-martialed. Probably a pointless debate about factors outside the game, but something to think about. I wonder if this could be represented by upping the point values of Allied troops, ships and planes.

Now for the game going forward itself, what are your plans going forward once Shikuka is re-consolidated? Will you simply try to do a strat bombing campaign to eke out the VPs for a win? What will you do if Obvert is able to inflict unacceptable casualties on your remaining strat bombers?


(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 1052
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:03:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Shikuka: The fourth opens with Death Star closing on the Kuriles and one of it's narrow, dangerous passes. Erik has vectored his subs. So there may be a lot of this:




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Post #: 1053
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:07:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Shikuka: Followed immediately by this: Fanshaw Bay takes two hits and reports heavy damage. I-22 is confirmed sunk.

Fanshaw Bay is probably a cripple. She'll detach, assuming she can still make way, and head for the Aleutians (or, if only moderately damaged, perhaps to West Coast).

I think DS managed to sneak by the first line of Erik's defenses, but his subs are closing in rapidly now. And thank goodness for the 25 or so that he's lost at Shikuka.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/22/2018 10:09:10 PM >

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Post #: 1054
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:12:29 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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SHikuka: A good interaction.

As this turn is beginning to unfold, I can see multiple subs in each gap between the Kuriles islands. I'll have to decide whether to load up a gap of choice with ASW before forcing it, or whether to go ahead and force it.




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Post #: 1055
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:16:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Shikuka: Allied night-bombers from Toyohara sortie in numbers - perhaps ten strike packages in all. At least four or five enemy CVs targeted, most near Sapporo, but Soryu is limping at Wakkanai and showing fires/heavy damage messages.




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Post #: 1056
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:20:35 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Shikuka: Heavy Fires/Heavy Damage, it seems.

So Unryu gone, Soryu must be crippled, and Akagi took two torps, so probably at least moderate damage.




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Post #: 1057
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:21:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

10/4/44

SHikuka: A good interaction.

As this turn is beginning to unfold, I can see multiple subs in each gap between the Kuriles islands. I'll have to decide whether to load up a gap of choice with ASW before forcing it, or whether to go ahead and force it.


It has been my experience that putting more than two pure ASW TFs in a hex seems to freeze the AI from conducting ASW attacks - like it can't parse the spacing of the TFs/detection interference or something. Sprint your carriers through after first sending a TF of supply ships at full speed.

Edit: Highly doubt Fanshaw Bay will survive two torp hits, even if she is one of the bigger CVEs.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 5/22/2018 10:23:43 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 1058
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:24:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Shikuka: Hit hard.




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Post #: 1059
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:26:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Shikuka: A DMS takes a hit and will probably sink. I don't have enough of these left.




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Post #: 1060
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:27:28 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

10/4/44

Shikuka: Hit hard.




Don't know what was hit hard - not Soryu in this attack! But the good news is that each attack causes Soryu to stop damage control work which allows the fires to grow and system damage to accumulate. By now she is likely "toast".

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1061
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 10:28:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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Shikuka: This is the third effective attack by Allied ASW.




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Post #: 1062
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/22/2018 11:11:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'll be out awhile tonight, so no more posts until later.

That was it for the decisive action though. The only other things that come to mind: A USN DM on lone patrol in one of the gaps underwent at least four attacks by subs, all of which missed (expended torps is a good thing). Carrier air sortied and sank a handful of riff-raff (SC, xAKL), mostly near Paramushiro. One huge strike of 100+ fighters and one TBM (ONE!) missed an AG at Paramushiro. Erik loaded up Ketoi with fighters (Allied sweeps handled them well) and Paramushiro with fighters (sweeps did okay, but enough were left to give another big B-29 strike some problems).

The key to the turn is that Death Star has closed on the Kuriles without incident. KB is down at Sapporo (timing was good in that regard). Some important decisions to make, but so far things look good.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/22/2018 11:12:05 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1063
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 12:32:10 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I'm not going to castigate you for your tactics, Canoerebel. I always enjoy your AARs and recognize this is a game and you are simply combating Obvert's tactics in equal measure. I do not fault you for it.

Nonetheless, I wonder if the US would have the political willpower and its populace the lenience to allow so many ships and men to be sacrificed in the way they have been in the battles around Shikuka. I have no doubt that the Japanese would have been absolutely willing to sacrifice their men in such a manner. I guess the question would be if the admiral that allowed so many men to die in such a way would have been sacked and court-martialed. Probably a pointless debate about factors outside the game, but something to think about. I wonder if this could be represented by upping the point values of Allied troops, ships and planes.

Now for the game going forward itself, what are your plans going forward once Shikuka is re-consolidated? Will you simply try to do a strat bombing campaign to eke out the VPs for a win? What will you do if Obvert is able to inflict unacceptable casualties on your remaining strat bombers?


Always felt that as a game balance Japanese ships should cost more VP in 1942 and Allied ships should cost more in 1944 and lots more in 1945. Japanese ships should cost hardly anything in 1945. That way the Japanese player can use them historically and not worry about VP so much.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 1064
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 12:33:36 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It depends on the leadership.

If the Allies had somehow managed to get caught in a box canyon like this one, and if the Japanese had overwhelming power, what do you think a leader like George Patton would have done? I think he would have used every asset at hand in every way possible, especially if it seemed that just a few days might buy enough time for the cavalry to arrive.

What if the leader were Archer Vandegrift or Joe Stillwell?

What if it was a man of less willpower and resolve?

In these circumstances, I think the Allies would have done just the same. Remember, this isn't 1944 with a vanishing Japanese air force and navy. This is 1944 with an uber Japanese air force and a strong navy and the Allies starting far behind and facing the most desperate of situations.

There's no doubt what a committed leader would have done.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I'm not going to castigate you for your tactics, Canoerebel. I always enjoy your AARs and recognize this is a game and you are simply combating Obvert's tactics in equal measure. I do not fault you for it.

Nonetheless, I wonder if the US would have the political willpower and its populace the lenience to allow so many ships and men to be sacrificed in the way they have been in the battles around Shikuka. I have no doubt that the Japanese would have been absolutely willing to sacrifice their men in such a manner. I guess the question would be if the admiral that allowed so many men to die in such a way would have been sacked and court-martialed. Probably a pointless debate about factors outside the game, but something to think about. I wonder if this could be represented by upping the point values of Allied troops, ships and planes.

Now for the game going forward itself, what are your plans going forward once Shikuka is re-consolidated? Will you simply try to do a strat bombing campaign to eke out the VPs for a win? What will you do if Obvert is able to inflict unacceptable casualties on your remaining strat bombers?




The Allies made the same commitment in 1942 around Lunga. Just on a slightly smaller scale....

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1065
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 2:22:52 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Worth noting that you should have a ton of AM-type minesweepers with good Endurance.

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Post #: 1066
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 3:09:22 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/4/44

Shikuka: Death Star probably couldn't have arrived at a better time, since KB and Kaigun were both winding up battles, had taken losses, and needed to replenish.

So many perils in waters like these, but not as many as there ordinarily would be.





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Post #: 1067
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 11:43:34 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Worth noting that you should have a ton of AM-type minesweepers with good Endurance.



At least in my Babes based mod (scen 40) I am getting lots of 16 knot 8500 endurance AMs in late 44.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 1068
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 1:53:08 PM   
crsutton


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Worth noting that you should have a ton of AM-type minesweepers with good Endurance.



At least in my Babes based mod (scen 40) I am getting lots of 16 knot 8500 endurance AMs in late 44.


Yes, those are excellent ships with very good ASW assets.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 1069
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 1:57:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Air Losses: A bunch of enemy strike aircraft destroyed on "Ground." These weren't destroyed at airfields, so perhaps a carrier.





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Post #: 1070
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 2:13:11 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I'm not going to castigate you for your tactics, Canoerebel. I always enjoy your AARs and recognize this is a game and you are simply combating Obvert's tactics in equal measure. I do not fault you for it.

Nonetheless, I wonder if the US would have the political willpower and its populace the lenience to allow so many ships and men to be sacrificed in the way they have been in the battles around Shikuka. I have no doubt that the Japanese would have been absolutely willing to sacrifice their men in such a manner. I guess the question would be if the admiral that allowed so many men to die in such a way would have been sacked and court-martialed. Probably a pointless debate about factors outside the game, but something to think about. I wonder if this could be represented by upping the point values of Allied troops, ships and planes.




RESULTS...
If victory, then the right decision was made.
If defeat, any action will come under scrutiny.

And self introspection...

Did you ask of others that which you would do yourself?

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 1071
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 2:21:09 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Did you ask of others that which you would do yourself?


Yup.

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Post #: 1072
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 2:22:26 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Worth noting that you should have a ton of AM-type minesweepers with good Endurance.



At least in my Babes based mod (scen 40) I am getting lots of 16 knot 8500 endurance AMs in late 44.


Yes, those are excellent ships with very good ASW assets.


But are they cheaper than xAKLs in VPs?

_____________________________


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Post #: 1073
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 2:57:57 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
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Status: offline 		Has to be a carrier. Looks like you also lost one of your own Hoss. Not many ships survive 2 torps . Looks like he has the most up to date aircraft on his carrier. Got to figure there are a couple more in the yards for a long bit.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 1074
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 3:14:29 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		CVE Fanshaw Bay indeed sank, along with the DMS hit by a sub.

Death Star will transit the pass to the NW tomorrow. More pucker time. Perpetual pucker time, it seems.

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Post #: 1075
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 4:43:35 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Has to be that Soryu brunt up. That really makes the air losses in that attack worth it.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1076
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 5:08:44 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/5/44

Shikuka: This night, Death Star will transit a gap to enter the Sea of Okhtosk. Erik is vectoring in his subs.




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Post #: 1077
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 5:12:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Shikuka: No blood shed here, but typical of the many interactions about to happen in this turn. I'll only post those with bloodshed.

The turn is just beginning, but already I'm thinking about how I'll handle the following turn. Should DS forge ahead into the waiting sub line or should I hold it back and let ASW TFs move forward?

At this early stage, it seems that DS may have already clear the pass without incident.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/23/2018 5:13:26 PM >

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Post #: 1078
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 5:16:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/5/44

Shikuka: Moosbrugger's Fletcher TF sorties from Shikuka on an interdiction mission, hoping to cross paths with any enemy TFs moving NE from Hokkaido.






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Post #: 1079
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/23/2018 5:22:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/5/44

Shikuka: Several night bomber packages sortie from Toyohara. No hits scored, but three IJN CAs confirmed at Sapporo during the course of the turn.






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Post #: 1080
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