RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov)

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RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 5:12:02 AM

SparkleyTits

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
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I wish I played as well as you did on my first Soviet game good job Drakken

Well done and don't be so hard on yourself you have done very well just keep at it and try not to get disheartend.
Play a few games with the mindset of hard lessons to learn instead of challenges to overcome and I imagine with how you have done here you will be making it past the blizzards and beyond in no time bud

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 91

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 5:25:08 AM

WingedIncubus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I wish I played as well as you did on my first Soviet game good job Drakken

Well done and don't be so hard on yourself you have done very well just keep at it and try not to get disheartend.
Play a few games with the mindset of hard lessons to learn instead of challenges to overcome and I imagine with how you have done here you will be making it past the blizzards and beyond in no time bud

Truth be told, save being a glutton for punishment I do not know how budding Soviet players cannot get dishartened in summer 1941. Hell, I am an experienced wargamer and I got dishartened really fast, each time I opened each of my turn and saw that my carefully laden counters did nothing. Imagine how many players have tried to play the Soviet, got destroyed, and just shelved the game.

Soviets just have nothing to compensate for the experience of being not up to par, so it is just not fun. At least in DC:B, you get to make strategic choices that count in the end. Here, nothing the Soviet player chooses has any tangible, short-term impact - except guiding the Axis on where to pounce better. Counter-offensives would just net even more losses for next to nothing on the German side in return.

On my part, I do not see competence in what I have done. If I had forced psych0 to pause even one turn to reshuffle and refit, that would have been basic competence. Reaching August and September 1941 with lines reasonably ressembling real-life is competence. Losing Moscow and Leningrad is to me a lost game, period - and losing it even before Fall comes, like it was soon to happen, when psych0 is not even using HQBU is just being easy pickings.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 9/25/2017 5:38:36 AM >

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 92

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 6:51:21 AM

SparkleyTits

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I wish I played as well as you did on my first Soviet game good job Drakken

Well done and don't be so hard on yourself you have done very well just keep at it and try not to get disheartend.
Play a few games with the mindset of hard lessons to learn instead of challenges to overcome and I imagine with how you have done here you will be making it past the blizzards and beyond in no time bud

Truth be told, save being a glutton for punishment I do not know how budding Soviet players cannot get dishartened in summer 1941. Hell, I am an experienced wargamer and I got dishartened really fast, each time I opened each of my turn and saw that my carefully laden counters did nothing. Imagine how many players have tried to play the Soviet, got destroyed, and just shelved the game.

Soviets just have nothing to compensate for the experience of being not up to par, so it is just not fun. At least in DC:B, you get to make strategic choices that count in the end. Here, nothing the Soviet player chooses has any tangible, short-term impact - except guiding the Axis on where to pounce better. Counter-offensives would just net even more losses for next to nothing on the German side in return.

On my part, I do not see competence in what I have done. If I had forced psych0 to pause even one turn to reshuffle and refit, that would have been basic competence. Reaching August and September 1941 with lines reasonably ressembling real-life is competence. Losing Moscow and Leningrad is to me a lost game, period - and losing it even before Fall comes, like it was soon to happen, when psych0 is not even using HQBU is just being easy pickings.

I cannot speak for others but I really enjoy Soviets and I am yet to even win a game although yes I agree my first game (Soviets) was also very disheartening I didn't play again for 4 months or so.

I am terribly inexperienced tbh mate so my advice would be negligible at best but for example in my first game I had to learn the hard way on why defence in depth is needed..... You are already far past that level of inexperience and idiocy so I honestly imagine if you just played a few games with the intention to learn the flow of the game and learn what you can from the Soviets instead of to win you would enjoy them more and be able to survive before you knew it

Now thanks to a heavy helping of everyone on this forum, me having the mindset of a accepted mistake filled sponge and a over a month of intensive playing in my current game I still hold Pskov, Kharkov and Moscow at turn 9 with losses of 1.1 mil men. It isn't as good as it sounds on paper as I am definitely struggling to contain a death spiral everywhere but I think it is impossible not to until you become skilled & experienced

Honestly man your first game is leaps and bounds beyond the utter disaster mine was.
If you can keep at it then and accept that losses are a normality I imagine you will be holding beyond that blissful turn 18 & onwards in no time

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 93

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 7:13:19 AM

RKhan

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One thing I will say for the game, it does recreate the feeling of chaos and desperation the Soviet side felt in the summer of '41. The Germans side counted on this shock to cause a capitulation. After all, even conquering everything up to Leningrad, Moscow and Rostov only comprises a portion of the country and the Germans had no credible plan to conquer the whole thing, or for what would happen if the Soviets just refused to give up.

I do hope you will play again, perhaps as German? It will instruct your Soviet defence to no end.

RKhan

_____________________________

RKhan

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 94

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 7:22:55 AM

Stelteck

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Your mistake was to expect an historical results. It is very very hard to achieve.

But if you acknowledge from start that the game will stabilized around the Volga, the game is indeed very fun and interesting.

You are not in so bad position for a start. The most important is to keep fighting while avoiding too much looses.

(in reply to RKhan)

Post #: 95

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 7:29:49 AM

Nix77

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Playing the Soviet side is all about learning from your mistakes and adapting to the pace of the game and that of your opponent's. In my first MP Soviet game, I thought I was having a nice and easy August in the southern Dnepr bend when whoosh suddenly I miscalculated the distance my opponent's panzers could cover and my whole Southern front was in chaos and despair.

You really can't expect to do everything right in your first game, and not doing anything 100% right is also perfectly ok. The game is so complex that you just can't handle all the mechanics and twists on the first go, you just need to brute force through several painful games to get hang of it.

I'd say that the best of games really make you suffer, and when you conquer that suffering at some point, the enjoyment you get feels like a true victory.

You also need to give credit to Psych0, he executed the German advance in a deadly manner. You shouldn't be disheartened when losing to a good opponent, just take it as a lesson learned!

(in reply to RKhan)

Post #: 96

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 9:01:38 AM

Telemecus

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I have to agree with the comments above. It is also worth saying that whatever Psch0's experience as a player, his ability is very good. I think even in this game you can see you took dramatic strides forward.

The 1941 scenario is a horrific one for the Soviets, and it needs a special kind of stoicism to know whatever happens then it will be all the other way afterwards. There is one AAR here where the Axis got to the Urals, and still lost the game by losing Berlin on time.

Rather than giving up entirely on Soviets in WitE 1.0 why not try a later scenario - 43-45 say?

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 97

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 9:48:08 AM

timmyab

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I don't think your position is as bad as you think, certainly not serious enough to resign. Playing the Soviets in 41 is quite the technical challenge these days, but it's a purely defensive one (local counterattacks aside) until the blizzard. You have to survive through to December before you get to dish some out.

I understand that the breakthrough in the North has crushed your morale, but overcoming reverses is one of the most important qualities a general can have and something that can be learned like other aspects of the craft.
There was also a serious technical flaw in your Leningrad defense. The Volchov river should have been defended, strongly East of Novgorod and at minimum a unit in the swamp two hexes further North.
You have a stroke of fortune though because he has failed to ZOC your Northern rail line which means Northern and Northwestern fronts are not in immediate danger and can be repositioned to block 4th pz group's drive on lake Ladoga.
The aim now should be to tie up 4th pz group for as long as possible. I would place one front between Leningrad and the Volkhov with the strongest units defending North of the Neva and the other front East of the Volkhov . By the way the only fortified zone you need to build in 41 is the hex to the East of Pavlovo. Get this hex to fort 3 as a priority.

The center looks ok. The breakthrough towards Vyasma isn't serious. Western front is out of position though. It needs to be repositioned North and South of Vyasma.

The South looks fine. You should be able to frustrate him behind the Dnieper for a turn or two yet before retreating towards the Donets.

Overall I would give Psycho a slight advantage in this position. Certainly not decisive.

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 98

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 10:00:25 AM

Psych0

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I also think Drakken is very hard on himself. A good quality in my book for purposes of getting better in this game. I am too chickenshit to play Soviets on my own, just too daunting. That said, of course I respect and accept his surrender.

It's been a tough slog from where I'm sitting. Drakken stopped the bleeding with no new pockets of more than a couple units. That would have made for a tough winter even if L&M both would have falling. I think losing Leningrad or Moscow is basically a given as the game is currently, even without HQBU. One might well be possible to save. I'll update my NO HQ BU AAR tonight with progress/result of a couple of other games too.

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 99

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 10:37:04 AM

Psych0

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Another thing that Drakken did well is force me in certain directions. Maybe not exactly the direction he intended me to go, hence his surprise, I don't know. But I was basically reduced to operational pushing. So he built pretty big 'rocks' and in North I went around mostly, i.e. 'paper'. In Center I tried to go through but not very effectively at all, i.e. 'blunted scissors'. In the South I have no real options until the infantry arrives next turn. Even then the supply situation (and wothout HQ BU) in the South doesn't allow any 'paper' envelopments and the Dnepr would have frustrated any 'scissors' attacks...

(in reply to Psych0)

Post #: 100

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 2:01:34 PM

WingedIncubus

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Thank you for your kind words, everyone. I was not expecting that to be frank, but rather to be told to take in on the chin like a man or to get out. So this attitude is quite refreshing, and I want you guys to know I appreciate that.

While to my beginner's eyes my situation seemed totally lost, I can understand that for other, more experienced players I am resigning while I'm doing fine. I overestimate the importance of Moscow and Leningrad and that was not helped by how I interpreted some comments. I just do not know enough of the game to accurately gauge my opponent's range - and how this will dwindle in the fall because I've never reached Fall. It gives me this idea that the Axis basically has free-roaming death stars that I am powerless to even put dents in. Add to that mix that I am an emotional kind of man who tried to be up-to-challenge, and you can see why I feel disheartened.

I want also to make it clear, Psych0 has actually asked me to reconsider and not to resign the game. Because I felt helpless, I insisted back. But after all those words of encouragement, I feel much less lonely going at it. This was my main gripe about playing Soviets in WITE 1.0: Beginner players are left to their own devices with no a lot of tactical or operational resources, while the Axis basically have tutorials to win the game.

If psych0 accepts, I will take a day to reflect whether I decide to continue from here or we restart. This is by normal PBEM so I still have the files, and there is not much here that he did not know already.

If he refuses - which is his prerogative as I did resign and he did accept, we agreed to start another game but with the Soviets Defense+1, instead of Attack+1, in exchange for Mild Blizzard. I offered him that if he felt this did give me an unfair advantage after all, that he lets me know and we will restart.

And yes, I would love to see that AAR where the player was almost thrown off the map but came back to win the game.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 9/25/2017 2:20:32 PM >

(in reply to Psych0)

Post #: 101

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 2:24:33 PM

Psych0

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I'm happy to continue Drakken, no worries. Rather interested how it develops as I have not reached beyond Sep41 against human opponents.

Note, the +1 is for Soviets for defense and attack if I understand it correctly, so not either or. I have not played any games with that but it shouldn't be necessary if the German does not use HQ BU, so that's why I've not accepted it in my experiment. Happy to try it out though, but with mild instead of severe blizzard.

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 102

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 2:25:40 PM

Stelteck

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Attack +1 is interesting and not game breaking as opportunities to attack are rare and need to be carefully crafted.
But defense +1 is a completely different game.

It could be done as a test but i'am not optimistic about it.

If you want to balance the game in soviet favor, i think home rule for the opening (such as no mega big pocket south) could be interesting. The pocket around llov did not occured IRL.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/25/2017 2:26:37 PM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 103

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 2:32:07 PM

SparkleyTits

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I believe +1 defence means you will need to get 3.00 when you initiate combat so instead of a normal 2-1 CV advantage you would need a 3-1 CV advantage That is a big deal...

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 104

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 3:01:06 PM

Crackaces

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The good thing about continuing this game is getting a chance to learn about later stage Soviet decisions that you will have to make in the multiplayer game. If you want to see preservance in action .. read BrianG vs Sillyflower ..BrianG was almost run to the A-A line! But he stuck it out..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 105

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 3:46:06 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Attack +1 is interesting and not game breaking as opportunities to attack are rare and need to be carefully crafted.
But defense +1 is a completely different game.

It could be done as a test but i'am not optimistic about it.

If you want to balance the game in soviet favor, i think home rule for the opening (such as no mega big pocket south) could be interesting. The pocket around llov did not occured IRL.

I have to agree with Morvael that for play balance the Soviets should get the +1 Soviet attack. I didnt agree with this before but having played from the Soviet side more and having a ton of experience from the German side the Soviet +1 attack is needed in the current rule set in the game. The only caveat I have on this is that the Soviet +1 attack during the winter is "overpowered" in a very good players hand. That is the whole reason I'm playing the games I'm playing is to try and show this as the case. I have the game with Dinglir with normal blizzard with the +1 Soviet Attack & he is preparing for the coming tide. He may be correctly set up for it in time. The other gentleman has full blizzard, full para, full invasion & hasn't prepared for the coming tide. Both are on the same turn in the game.

The true balance in the game is, "the skill of the players" Balance that and you will have a good game.

_____________________________

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 106

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 4:42:30 PM

M60A3TTS

Posts: 4014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Attack +1 is interesting and not game breaking as opportunities to attack are rare and need to be carefully crafted.
But defense +1 is a completely different game.

It could be done as a test but i'am not optimistic about it.

If you want to balance the game in soviet favor, i think home rule for the opening (such as no mega big pocket south) could be interesting. The pocket around llov did not occured IRL.

I have to agree with Morvael that for play balance the Soviets should get the +1 Soviet attack. I didnt agree with this before but having played from the Soviet side more and having a ton of experience from the German side the Soviet +1 attack is needed in the current rule set in the game. The only caveat I have on this is that the Soviet +1 attack during the winter is "overpowered" in a very good players hand. That is the whole reason I'm playing the games I'm playing is to try and show this as the case. I have the game with Dinglir with normal blizzard with the +1 Soviet Attack & he is preparing for the coming tide. He may be correctly set up for it in time. The other gentleman has full blizzard, full para, full invasion & hasn't prepared for the coming tide. Both are on the same turn in the game.

The true balance in the game is, "the skill of the players" Balance that and you will have a good game.

Glad to see you've come around.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)

Post #: 107

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 4:55:46 PM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The good thing about continuing this game is getting a chance to learn about later stage Soviet decisions that you will have to make in the multiplayer game. If you want to see preservance in action .. read BrianG vs Sillyflower ..BrianG was almost run to the A-A line! But he stuck it out..

I'd say this is one of the main driver that should encourage you to continue the game, Drakken! Even if the game is tilting toward a German victory, the pure experience that you gain by slogging through the different challenges each season and year of the campaign present is really important for any future games you'll be playing.

I've played WitE for around a year now, and I haven't had the perseverance to continue a game longer than 51 turns currently (MP games go so slow that they just haven't progressed that far yet!). I feel that the lack of experience from the latter stages of the war and the consequences of my decisions made early in the war is a huge limiter for my skills in WitE. If I would have had the grit to grind through my first Soviet vs AI game couple of years ago, I wouldn't need to be guessing how I need to manage the Red Army in '42. And that'd have been only a prelude for the MP challenge!

Marshall Semyon Budyonny orders you to carry on the defense of the Motherland! ;)

PS. If the game starts feeling painful and only feels that you can't find enjoyment in stalling an inevitable defeat, quitting is a decent option too, this is only a game after all.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 9/25/2017 4:59:50 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 108

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 4:58:35 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Attack +1 is interesting and not game breaking as opportunities to attack are rare and need to be carefully crafted.
But defense +1 is a completely different game.

It could be done as a test but i'am not optimistic about it.

If you want to balance the game in soviet favor, i think home rule for the opening (such as no mega big pocket south) could be interesting. The pocket around llov did not occured IRL.

I have to agree with Morvael that for play balance the Soviets should get the +1 Soviet attack. I didnt agree with this before but having played from the Soviet side more and having a ton of experience from the German side the Soviet +1 attack is needed in the current rule set in the game. The only caveat I have on this is that the Soviet +1 attack during the winter is "overpowered" in a very good players hand. That is the whole reason I'm playing the games I'm playing is to try and show this as the case. I have the game with Dinglir with normal blizzard with the +1 Soviet Attack & he is preparing for the coming tide. He may be correctly set up for it in time. The other gentleman has full blizzard, full para, full invasion & hasn't prepared for the coming tide. Both are on the same turn in the game.

The true balance in the game is, "the skill of the players" Balance that and you will have a good game.

Glad to see you've come around.

I'm just a noob with crayons ;-P

_____________________________

(in reply to M60A3TTS)

Post #: 109

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 5:03:07 PM

M60A3TTS

Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I don't think your position is as bad as you think, certainly not serious enough to resign. Playing the Soviets in 41 is quite the technical challenge these days, but it's a purely defensive one (local counterattacks aside) until the blizzard. You have to survive through to December before you get to dish some out.

I understand that the breakthrough in the North has crushed your morale, but overcoming reverses is one of the most important qualities a general can have and something that can be learned like other aspects of the craft.
There was also a serious technical flaw in your Leningrad defense. The Volchov river should have been defended, strongly East of Novgorod and at minimum a unit in the swamp two hexes further North.
You have a stroke of fortune though because he has failed to ZOC your Northern rail line which means Northern and Northwestern fronts are not in immediate danger and can be repositioned to block 4th pz group's drive on lake Ladoga.
The aim now should be to tie up 4th pz group for as long as possible. I would place one front between Leningrad and the Volkhov with the strongest units defending North of the Neva and the other front East of the Volkhov . By the way the only fortified zone you need to build in 41 is the hex to the East of Pavlovo. Get this hex to fort 3 as a priority.

The center looks ok. The breakthrough towards Vyasma isn't serious. Western front is out of position though. It needs to be repositioned North and South of Vyasma.

The South looks fine. You should be able to frustrate him behind the Dnieper for a turn or two yet before retreating towards the Donets.

Overall I would give Psycho a slight advantage in this position. Certainly not decisive.

I think timmyab has nicely summed things up. So far you have lost 1.3 million men that will not come back. In a typical game that goes the distance you may get ten times that many replacements, that's 13 million. Most of your lost units return without you having to spend admin points.

Your statement that you get s****y cavalry reinforcements is way off the mark. They are worth their weight in gold later, but not now. Your goal with them now is fill them with needed manpower and have them attack in support of your infantry where you have a good chance to win. You want to farm victories so they flip to guards status. That is a big booster later, but again not now. In effect you pay now for the payoff later.

Don't spend admin points putting valuable leaders like Konev in charge of fronts. Once again, that's for later. For now, give them armies with good units, those that have at least 40-45 morale and experience.

Don't spend a lot of admin points on forts either. As timmyab says, only the hex at x83 y16 really needs one, but that should be in place no later than turn 3. That hex then needs two units in an army with sappers and the FZ should also get 3 sappers. If you want to add other forts, keep in mind that the Axis moves so fast, most of the time those forts won't help a great deal. I don't think a future patch is going to change that to a significant degree.

Next turn I would rail out what industry near Leningrad you need, then rail out units a needed over the Mga rail line.

All in all I concur with folks that say this game is not lost. At least play it out through the clear weather turns. You'll gain far more experience than if you were just to start over.

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 110

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/25/2017 5:12:56 PM

Telemecus

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Could I propose a third possibility as something to consider. This would of course need Pysch0 to agree. But instead of resign, why not a sabbatical? You have the PBEM to carry on at a future date.

While a lot of what the experienced players say is correct, there is the very real emotional challenge. War in the East is a monster of a game and takes so much time, energy and passion that it can be sapping. So I have been where Drakken is and if you do not see the payoff it can just stop being fun. So if you can carry on to a better point great - but if not I would say hold off from total abandonment. A holiday can always put things in perspective. As can other games against others of different levels and abilities. When you are very experienced you will laugh off this situation as trivial when you are pounding the doors of Berlin. But it is not until you have been through that that you can see this is not so bad.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/25/2017 5:25:03 PM >

(in reply to M60A3TTS)

Post #: 111

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 5:24:19 AM

WingedIncubus

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T6 - July 24th, 1941 - Northern Sector

Alliright, you guys convinced me to continue - even though I am still not sure what I am doing.

My immediate aim is just to last until September, and see where I am at.

I fully commit Northern Front to defend the whole Leningrad area. They happen to be the strongest units I have in the North. Meanwhile 8th Army is sent East to form a front behind the Syas river, since the Volkhov river is compromised.

24th, 27th, and 31st Army are placed between Leningrad and the bridge Volkhov river. Some 27th Army's Rifle Divisions are placed as blockers east of the Volkhov to hinder any encirclement to trap those armies there.

My aim doing that is to force psych0 to either veer left into my stronger defences - and commit his panzers to act as rams, or keep pushing through three massed armies first, then have him go right into my defensive lines if he chooses to leave Leningrad to his Infantry. Hopefully, I will be able to extract more troops from the Leningrad area to save whatever I can next turn.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 9/26/2017 6:06:33 AM >

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 112

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 5:33:46 AM

WingedIncubus

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T6 - July 24th, 1941 - Central Sector

psych0 has committed to attack the Centre by going for Vyasma, with a left hook into Rzhev. I displace my Western Front right in front North and South of Vyasma: 4 lines deep and the first line with 3 counters. Meanwhile, 43rd Army is created to create screen to cover Bryansk at the lower South of the Central Sector.

Smolensk is still holding. I keep using Air Supply to keep it supplied as long as possible. Each turn it lasts it is a thorn right behind his line.

I continue to build a first line of forts in front of Moscow, plus another Fortified Region inside Moscow. All of them manned with Infantry.

Plus, for good measure, I assign Rossokovsky himself in command of 4th Army, smack in front of his massed panzers. I want his push to hurt, and give me options for a local counterattack if stars align.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 9/26/2017 5:37:08 AM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 113

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 5:52:15 AM

WingedIncubus

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T6 - July 24th, 1941 - Southern Sector

I had totally forgotten to garrison Dnepropetrovsk, so it fell into German hands - the remaining Industry included.

I won't do this mistake this time, so I make sure that Zaporozhye is properly garrisoned. Meanwhile, his local encirclement having failed, all my remaining troops go behind the Dnepr to hold that line with two lines of defence.

His northern panzer pushed has veered eastward. My line in the South is really getting thin, so I decide to shorten my line behind the Vorskla river behind Poltava and prepare for his coming. However, Kursk is all but empty. If he veers North there will be only the Russian steppes in his way.

Crimea is getting ready for his Axis minor troops. Odds are he will have no choice but to commit some of its Infantry south to help getting through here, so I use Crimea as a tool to divert some of its forces away from my main line.

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 114

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 5:56:19 AM

WingedIncubus

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T6 - July 24th, 1941 - Evacuation

2 Vehicule, 2 HI and 2 Armements evacuated from Leningrad to Nizhny Nagil

3 Armament points evacuated from Poltava to Chkalov.

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 115

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 6:00:47 AM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
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Couple of comments on the T6 moves:

- One of the keys to Leningrad defense are the Shlisselburg hex and the light woods hex between it and Pavlovo. Those should be fortified early, and manned with strong units when the German is close. Now you have strong units in the already fortified hexes, which Psych0 won't be likely to attack directly.

- Volkhov river is critical to Leningrad survival. If it breaks, Leningrad is very likely to fall. You have a quite sparse line at Volkhov village, Psych0 is probably going to aim to Novaya Ladoga to cut Leningrad, and pass Northern Front completely. Someone suggested railing units out since Mga crossroads is still in your control (another critical hex!). That might have been a good idea. You can still ship units to Sviritsa, but the shipping limit is quite low.

- Vyazma-Rzhev line looks solid when viewed from afar without the CV values, but with close inspection it seems you're wasting the strong units on the open. I know at least HLYA defends the open hexes, but my opinion is that stronger units should get their CVs multiplied in fortified hexes and strong terrain to make them hard nuts to crack. Defend in the forests, screen in the open. Be aware that strong stacks invite enveloping moves, so prepare for that too! I think you're using AltCV? Stacks like 20=11 and 12=7 make my eyes hurt :( That Rokossovsky's armor stack would be 20=60 in a forest hex since they would build a L1 fort after your logistics phase.

The defense lines look generally good, but there's some fine-tuning on some of the decisions you're making.

Remember that this is only my opinion and by no means I'm criticizing you, just trying to give constructive advice. Grognards can feel free to criticize my advice and correct it if I had something wrong.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 9/26/2017 6:19:03 AM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 116

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 6:34:57 AM

SparkleyTits

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I have found since I have been guarding clear hexes first and foremost encirclement rate and the abandonning of huge swathes of land has gone down rather heavily for me personally.
Instead of forcing the panzers to go around my nicely defended woods by way of clear terrain (Which he will 9 times out of 10) it seems much more efficient to make them go half way around my nicely defended clear terrain by way of woods

< Message edited by SparkleyTits -- 9/26/2017 6:57:38 AM >

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 117

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 7:48:19 AM

Nix77

Posts: 561
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From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I have found since I have been guarding clear hexes first and foremost encirclement rate and the abandonning of huge swathes of land has gone down rather heavily for me personally.
Instead of forcing the panzers to go around my nicely defended woods by way of clear terrain (Which he will 9 times out of 10) it seems much more efficient to make them go half way around my nicely defended clear terrain by way of woods

It really might be like this, I just need more battles under my belt to see the difference :D

It just feels scary to me to defend in the open. Difference between open and woods is almost the same between hasty and deliberate attack. Also a point to consider is that strong concentration of pioneers may cancel your fort defense bonus, but they can't cancel the terrain bonus.

Take that 20=11 stack for example, you're stacking three of your most powerful units, and they can be punched aside with a hasty attack by two pz divisions.

I don't of course mean that none of the clear hexes should be defended. The two hexes north of Vyazma with 3=2 and 6=3 stacks are important since they are part of the Rzhev-Vyazma forest/swamp line.

Hell, I don't know, lets just see how it pans out :)

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 9/26/2017 7:53:27 AM >

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 118

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 7:58:29 AM

Telemecus

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Often you can just defend from unclear terrain hexes next to clear terrain - depends on whether you are just delaying or really want to stop the enemy dead of course. But usually making your opponent pay large movement point costs to go through clear terrain is enough to induce to have to attack you in your preferred terrain.

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 119

RE: Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) -... - 9/26/2017 8:04:37 AM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

T6 - July 24th, 1941 - Evacuation

2 Vehicule, 2 HI and 2 Armements evacuated from Leningrad to Nizhny Nagil

3 Armament points evacuated from Poltava to Chkalov.

Try to evacuate the factories fully on one go, rather than in small steps. The vehicle factory evacuated from Leningrad suffers 90% damage if you evacuate 2/10 points of it, but only 50% damage if you evacuate it fully 10/10 points.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 9/26/2017 8:07:49 AM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)

Post #: 120

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