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IJ Player production - 12/5/2017 12:16:41 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		Need a little help shaking off some rust. Anyone point me to an up to date discussion of the merits of tweaking the Japanese production system?

Thanks!

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Post #: 1
RE: IJ Player production - 12/5/2017 1:56:50 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Depends on what exactly you are most interested in tweeking.

Here are some recent threads with both substantial contributions and hyperlinks to older relevant threads.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4354969

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4349731

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4199401

Alfred

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 2
RE: IJ Player production - 12/5/2017 2:17:40 AM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline 		Alfred's suggestions pretty solidly cover Aircraft research and production. You will want to modify your thinking based upon scenario and your own intimate knowledge of the air model. :) As for other recommendations, I strongly urge you to read the document referenced in this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2933397

Very solid primer on the Japanese economy. I do not follow it completely, but a good starting point for thinking about the Japanese economy.

I'd also recommend two tools to use while you are playing:

WitP:AE Tracker (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2236936)
Intel Monkey (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4376711)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 4:49:47 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		Ok, so I haven't found a solution for this. I am 8 days into a Single player Babes Lite game as IJ. I switched production of aircraft at Harbin to Ki-43Ic. The factory isn't repairing. I thought it might be an HI deficiency, then a Supply issue in Harbin. Bottom line, none of my production changes seem to be repairing. The one common thing in all cases is no "local" HI but I thought HI was a cumulative asset that could be used anywhere in the Industry.

Any ideas how to get my factories to convert to the changes I made and start producing? This is not my strongpoint, and its been a LONG time since I played.


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Post #: 4
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 5:42:33 AM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Ok, so I haven't found a solution for this. I am 8 days into a Single player Babes Lite game as IJ. I switched production of aircraft at Harbin to Ki-43Ic. The factory isn't repairing. I thought it might be an HI deficiency, then a Supply issue in Harbin. Bottom line, none of my production changes seem to be repairing. The one common thing in all cases is no "local" HI but I thought HI was a cumulative asset that could be used anywhere in the Industry.

Any ideas how to get my factories to convert to the changes I made and start producing? This is not my strongpoint, and its been a LONG time since I played.


Can post a screenshot of Harbin and your production screen (with Harbin Ki-43-Ic factory showing)?

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 5
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 6:03:35 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline 		The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)
Post #: 6
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 6:26:58 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.

But only one of each type of industry per turn per base - if you have turned repairs on.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 7
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 8:06:19 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus
The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.

I bet on this. One of the routines I do on the first turn as Japan is cranking up supply sliders in places where I have airframe/engine factories to ~5k so that base accumulates ~15k. Building up those few paces where spoilage can occure on this level is of top priority then
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
But only one of each type of industry per turn per base - if you have turned repairs on.
There are no such restrictions. As long as supply is over 10k repairs would go on. I routinely group my airframe and engine factories by type in AI games for ease of management. And they all repair one per turn.

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 12/6/2017 8:08:09 AM >

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 8
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 9:45:09 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Yes. Every factory needs 10K supply.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 9
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 2:28:31 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes. Every factory needs 10K supply.

Yup. However, he says that he checked supply requirements...

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 10
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 2:29:23 PM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

Posts: 1014
Joined: 2/22/2012
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Getting 10k supply to Harbin can be a problem, ESPECIALLY if Port Arthur is stockpiling also. Don't stockpile supply anywhere in Manchukuo until Harbin gets over 10k. In addition, to ensure it stays over 10k, I routinely run a small supply convoy from Honshu to Rashin. Also, be careful about HI expansion in Manchukuo, unless it's a port. It even harder to get fuel to inland bases than supply, and no fuel means no HI.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 11
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 2:30:07 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus
The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.

I bet on this. One of the routines I do on the first turn as Japan is cranking up supply sliders in places where I have airframe/engine factories to ~5k so that base accumulates ~15k. Building up those few paces where spoilage can occure on this level is of top priority then
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
But only one of each type of industry per turn per base - if you have turned repairs on.
There are no such restrictions. As long as supply is over 10k repairs would go on. I routinely group my airframe and engine factories by type in AI games for ease of management. And they all repair one per turn.

I was referring to other industries, but NTYMI, doesn't one per turn also apply to each aircraft plant? I have sandboxed the Japanese side a little and never saw more than one point gain on a given aircraft factory. Multiple factories at the same location, OK.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 12
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 3:58:48 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
But only one of each type of industry per turn per base - if you have turned repairs on.

I was referring to other industries, but NTYMI, doesn't one per turn also apply to each aircraft plant? I have sandboxed the Japanese side a little and never saw more than one point gain on a given aircraft factory. Multiple factories at the same location, OK.

What you meant was "per installation" not "per type" then.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: IJ Player production - 12/6/2017 8:53:39 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
But only one of each type of industry per turn per base - if you have turned repairs on.

I was referring to other industries, but NTYMI, doesn't one per turn also apply to each aircraft plant? I have sandboxed the Japanese side a little and never saw more than one point gain on a given aircraft factory. Multiple factories at the same location, OK.

What you meant was "per installation" not "per type" then.

As I said, I was not thinking of aircraft factories at all so "per type" referred to all other industry. But I wanted to make clear that putting 50,000 supply in a base with industry would not result in instant repairs of up to 41 industry points unless one had 41 individual points of repair to work on.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 14
RE: IJ Player production - 12/7/2017 12:27:05 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.


Ok This is what I thought. Its just taking a long time to stockpile so I wanted to be sure I was remembering the rules right. Thanks Aurorus!

@Uncivil: Yes getting the 10k supply to Harbin is a challenge!

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Post #: 15
RE: IJ Player production - 12/7/2017 2:16:23 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		It isn't enough to ask if we are producing enough players, but just how good are they?

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 16
RE: IJ Player production - 12/7/2017 4:30:52 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

The base must have over 10K supply to repair a production item: oil, refinery, industry, shipyard, or aircraft factory. Each repair uses 1k supply. So if a base has 10,157 supply, it will repair 1 item only in a turn. A base will try to accumulate 3x its supply level. So, set all of your bases where you wish to repair industry to a supply level of approximately 5K. The bases will then accumulate 15K supply and be able to repair up to 5 items each turn.


Ok This is what I thought. Its just taking a long time to stockpile so I wanted to be sure I was remembering the rules right. Thanks Aurorus!

@Uncivil: Yes getting the 10k supply to Harbin is a challenge!

If you can find an HQ to put in Harbin it will attract supply to itself. Command and National HQs pull the most supply.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 17
RE: IJ Player production - 12/7/2017 12:43:12 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		The HQ suggestion by BB is good. Also, you can move ground units there to increase supply draw too.


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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 18
RE: IJ Player production - 12/15/2017 5:19:29 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		OK, been rather busy of late and haven't had time to give my .02. For better or worse here it comes.

So, I play Scen1 and I don't know what levels are in 'Babes Lite', but here goes. I like to have my HI output (before the Allies bomb it to dust anyway) at about 15000. What that actually means is that Japanese HI output must be ~7500 (times two = 15k). I actually got this from the gentleman above, Mike Sollis' AAR. I find it works pretty well. In Scen1 this requires a modest increase in HI factories.

When it comes to A/C and their engines its pretty much a mess for Japan at start. She needs more of everything and has not enough of anything. In addition the demands on her supply are enormous compared to her at start levels as I'm sure you are aware. This I leave to you as I imagine your knowledge far exceeds mine.

At this point I pretty much brake from the community. I increase LI. Bad Rusty, bad. Here's my logic, if you can call it that. Some areas of the 'Empire' are just flowing with resources and have little draw on them. So its in these areas where the changes are made, because IMHO its cheaper to ship supply than resources. Shipping costs fuel. Fuel is blood to Japan, so if I can burn 15 points of resources to ship 1 point of supply, I'm ahead of the game.

So here are the areas I include:

Manchukuo, Korea, and even some bases in eastern China get a small increase. Now in this area the supplies will just end up in China anyway, but thats OK as well because I'm usually shipping supply into China from Japan anyway and this'll mean that I must ship less.

Sakhalin, and Hokkaido get a modest increase. Again the increase in supply in this region will help it support itself, especially as the game progresses and the need for more forces here grows.

Formosa gets a 'large' increase. Now this is relative. She starts with two bases with 40 (IIRC) LI each. I get 'em both to 100. Yup you heard me. That leaves the island with an excess of 400 resources/day. There's also an oil production of 80/day. With small TK's and xAKLs these are easily moved to the HI. Not to mention I bring supplies back to Formosa as the empire is going to need supply and this brings it just that much closer to where it will be needed.

So there you have it. Have I knocked out numbers to show this is economic. No. I sometimes just go with the empirical data and my gut feeling. Plus my numbers for supply and fuel in all my 'short' (end '42) past games have been satisfactory in my eyes.

So there it is. Am I right, don't know. I'm sure others will weigh in and I encourage their input.

Hope it helps, or at least gets some wheels turning.

ciao

< Message edited by rustysi -- 12/15/2017 5:22:49 PM >

_____________________________

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 19
RE: IJ Player production - 9/3/2021 9:14:05 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, been rather busy of late and haven't had time to give my .02. For better or worse here it comes.

So, I play Scen1 and I don't know what levels are in 'Babes Lite', but here goes. I like to have my HI output (before the Allies bomb it to dust anyway) at about 15000. What that actually means is that Japanese HI output must be ~7500 (times two = 15k). I actually got this from the gentleman above, Mike Sollis' AAR. I find it works pretty well. In Scen1 this requires a modest increase in HI factories.

When it comes to A/C and their engines its pretty much a mess for Japan at start. She needs more of everything and has not enough of anything. In addition the demands on her supply are enormous compared to her at start levels as I'm sure you are aware. This I leave to you as I imagine your knowledge far exceeds mine.

At this point I pretty much brake from the community. I increase LI. Bad Rusty, bad. Here's my logic, if you can call it that. Some areas of the 'Empire' are just flowing with resources and have little draw on them. So its in these areas where the changes are made, because IMHO its cheaper to ship supply than resources. Shipping costs fuel. Fuel is blood to Japan, so if I can burn 15 points of resources to ship 1 point of supply, I'm ahead of the game.

So here are the areas I include:

Manchukuo, Korea, and even some bases in eastern China get a small increase. Now in this area the supplies will just end up in China anyway, but thats OK as well because I'm usually shipping supply into China from Japan anyway and this'll mean that I must ship less.

Sakhalin, and Hokkaido get a modest increase. Again the increase in supply in this region will help it support itself, especially as the game progresses and the need for more forces here grows.

Formosa gets a 'large' increase. Now this is relative. She starts with two bases with 40 (IIRC) LI each. I get 'em both to 100. Yup you heard me. That leaves the island with an excess of 400 resources/day. There's also an oil production of 80/day. With small TK's and xAKLs these are easily moved to the HI. Not to mention I bring supplies back to Formosa as the empire is going to need supply and this brings it just that much closer to where it will be needed.

So there you have it. Have I knocked out numbers to show this is economic. No. I sometimes just go with the empirical data and my gut feeling. Plus my numbers for supply and fuel in all my 'short' (end '42) past games have been satisfactory in my eyes.

So there it is. Am I right, don't know. I'm sure others will weigh in and I encourage their input.

Hope it helps, or at least gets some wheels turning.

ciao


Hmm this is a very interesting strategy first I've seen this...

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