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RE: Advanced Strike Planner

 
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RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 2:19:56 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Wait a minute, you're in here causing grief and you don't even own the game. For crap's sake, there are enough idiots running around who own the game in here and we also get a knucklehead trying to give advice on a game they don't own?

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 121
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 3:16:24 AM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Wait a minute, you're in here causing grief and you don't even own the game. For crap's sake, there are enough idiots running around who own the game in here and we also get a knucklehead trying to give advice on a game they don't own?


I own all versions of the game and am just asking about the flight planner. I know I don't have to buy it but trying to find reasons too and give input. If this causes you grief I am sorry. I know you are older, don't have much patience and either think or know coming off as big stomp the defender gives you the currency to beat on users at will. The better news is because I know this it does not bother me. Now go explain this to Apache. Probably a better lesson for USENET grump to teach padawan under purple bridge.

Best to devs and their planner. I hope they know I really want to buy.

Respect







(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 122
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 3:42:40 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline 		I think your written comprehension skills need some work.

I'm not interested in internet drama with you, I was merely responding to your backhanded remark about tech support by saying that save files are important to avoid excessive to and fro.

Speaking of excessive to and fro, I've blocked you so don't feel the need to respond to this.

Seek help.

_____________________________


(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 123
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:03:45 AM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

I think your written comprehension skills need some work.

I'm not interested in internet drama with you, I was merely responding to your backhanded remark about tech support by saying that save files are important to avoid excessive to and fro.

Speaking of excessive to and fro, I've blocked you so don't feel the need to respond to this.

Seek help.


Yes I'm aware English isn't my first language and you're angry after I asked you to stop modifying and shaping things you quote from me which is a very little forum kid thing to do and definitely not professional. also think what you think is backhanded probably isn't and you just have a negative narrative in your head you want to support. Anybody that has the care to go back may not agree with me on issues but will see you acting bullish and awful.

Block may be best solution. I know I am not gaining anything positive from you and you've already lost my sale. So what's left?

Get help? OkThey need to teach more on customer relations in programming school. anybody know who I can talk to about this issue?









(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 124
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 12:18:34 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		BDukes, I don't think you mean to come off as dick-ish as you are sounding. I suggest assessing how people are reading your stuff as a point of self reflection. Someone like Apache85 doesn't get involved in internet drama, yet here you are pushing him to do just that. He is a very big contributor for scenarios, peer-based help, and general knowledge. Don't be the guy that makes him not want to help any more. Really, don't be that guy.

My suggestion is go back, read you posts in this thread and maybe use it to get your point across in a different way. Just a little bit of advice who has seen people come into this forum and just plain piss people off through ignorance.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 125
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 3:52:14 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

BDukes, I don't think you mean to come off as dick-ish as you are sounding. I suggest assessing how people are reading your stuff as a point of self reflection. Someone like Apache85 doesn't get involved in internet drama, yet here you are pushing him to do just that. He is a very big contributor for scenarios, peer-based help, and general knowledge. Don't be the guy that makes him not want to help any more. Really, don't be that guy.

My suggestion is go back, read you posts in this thread and maybe use it to get your point across in a different way. Just a little bit of advice who has seen people come into this forum and just plain piss people off through ignorance.


Ok I went back and see you are somebody that is constantly involved in forum drama, have never produced 1 scenario while demanding it as currency from others and trash new users at any opportunity. I also see that many long standing posters think that as well. Go away forum cancer.




(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 126
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:13:23 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline 		Matrix p, Iian et all. I took a good look and this forum is a snake pit. New users are consistently beaten down by generally the same guy who does seem to have a card to do so. He regularly calls people names and rides line. Others are emulating to be part of bully club. It is not a good culture.I have bought many of your games and now reconsidering it completely. Customers have way too many ways to spend their money now.

Thank you for any assistance given.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 127
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:15:37 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		So its not the English language skills that made you seem kind of dick-ish. Good to know for future reference.

By the way contribution is more than posting scenarios. Let ask the hard questions...how many people have you helped, how many documents have you produced to help people understand the game, how many times in the last couple of weeks have you helped answer a question. Bring the list, we are waiting with bated breath.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 128
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:23:43 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		As just a point on where some of the angst around you comes from; coming into a forum of a very supportive dev with a very successful game saying something like...Here is my suggestion and critique and if you don't do it, I won't buy it...is immature, churlish, and trolling in its utmost form, language aside.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 129
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:44:11 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline 		I’m done talking to poison.

Nobody has to do x,y or z to post.

Please give rest.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 130
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/10/2018 4:45:47 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I have succeeded.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 131
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/11/2018 11:04:38 AM   
c3k

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 4/25/2017
Status: offline 		I'm late to the fiasco this devolved into and a newb to CMANO.

For strike planning, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT piece of information would be: when will this weapon hit that target? Everything else flows from that.

I'd like to be able to select an aircraft and a target and have timer show when that weapon will hit that target. I can cut out timing legs, create holding patterns, push to mil for a different part of the package, etc., but only if I know when each weapon will hit the target.

A simple calculation of "if launched now, impact in 11:37" would be huge.

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 132
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/11/2018 12:19:47 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for your feedback c3k,

So, in implementable requirements, that would sound something like...

Player will:

1. Press button to create flightplan.
2. Open Flightplan window, which would list all waypoints and their properties in 'Excel format'.
3. Set Time-On-Target (ToT) for the target waypoint.

And then the AI would...

A. Calculate (estimate/guessimate/lie about) weapon flight time from launch point to target.
B. Calculate time at Initial Point (IP).
C. Calculate all earlier waypoint times.
D. Set take-off time.
E. Warn player if take-off time is earlier than current time.

Yes?

And AMP v1.0 would NOT have detailed weapon allocation or cruise missile planning to cut development time. Straight-in cruise missile attacks only.

< Message edited by emsoy -- 2/11/2018 12:22:02 PM >

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to c3k)
Post #: 133
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/11/2018 1:13:32 PM   
c3k

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 4/25/2017
Status: offline 		Yes, that sounds good.

There should be a clue for players about the optimal altitude and range for weapon release. Or, have the AI push it.

Regardless, some feedback would be beneficial. There are so many weapons and so much specialized information (mission planning in real life is a specialty), that any limitations should be clearly communicated.

Dropping a LGB at 600 knots and 200 feet agl is sub-optimal. A player trying to drop a durandal from 25,000 feet should also get some feedback.

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 134
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/11/2018 1:26:10 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with C3K on this one. I have been watching how this is becoming incredibly complex to design. I would be happy with a simple in-game calculator that tells what to do, and then I do it.

(in reply to c3k)
Post #: 135
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 5:41:55 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks guys

Weapon release params is an important issue that I haven't even considered... added to notes, and please continue letting the good ideas flow.

As for complexity... this will get pretty bad deep down in the dark corners of the game engine, but we'll do all we can to keep it (relatively!) simple at the top. I hope. Hehe.

And yes, the option to revert to a simpler calculator is also open.

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 136
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 7:46:25 PM   
Cik

 

Posts: 671
Joined: 10/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy


And yes, the option to revert to a simpler calculator is also open.



HISSSSSSSSSSS

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 137
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 8:11:36 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy


And yes, the option to revert to a simpler calculator is also open.



HISSSSSSSSSSS


Or not

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 138
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 8:24:41 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		My main concern is a full blowm military-grade planner will take a long time to code up and deliver. I would rather have something simpler, easier to use, and delivered faster.

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 139
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 8:42:53 PM   
c3k

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 4/25/2017
Status: offline 		I agree.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 140
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/12/2018 8:45:06 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Agree also.

-Wayne

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 141
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 1:28:47 AM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 513
Joined: 3/4/2014
From: Washington, D.C.
Status: offline 		Emsoy-
I definitely agree that the targeteering/weaponeering phases and tanker planing phases would take *years* to develop. Honestly, PFPS will probably be released to the public by then and you could just port that over.

What you have suggested sounds like an excellent start. While it's all achievable by a player by micro-ing units and an Exel spreadsheet, the real advantage will be allowing scenario designers to easily create very challenging situations for a player without extensive use of lua.

(in reply to stilesw)
Post #: 142
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 5:29:13 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My main concern is a full blowm military-grade planner will take a long time to code up and deliver. I would rather have something simpler, easier to use, and delivered faster.


I've been trying to break down this monster into smaller work packages and estimate the code job. We're looking at 5+ years (more likely 7, but don't dare saying that out loud) on the code side alone. Then add testing, bug fixing, general project management, and a whole bunch of risk.

So yeah, this is starting to look like a game within the game hehe

< Message edited by emsoy -- 2/13/2018 7:43:02 AM >

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 143
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 1:17:08 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Unless you are citing dog years (7 = 1) then this timing is discouraging. Given the half of a decade timeline, perhaps the community could now let the development team know the top couple of "must haves" for a simple but useful strike planner. Maybe drop the term "Advanced" and upgrade the Mission Editor to encompass the community's must haves. Is there a head start to be found in code developed for the Professional edition?

Kevin

< Message edited by kevinkin -- 2/13/2018 3:07:57 PM >

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 144
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 1:38:55 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline 		Yes focusing just on what people want a much better idea.

Thank you Mr. Ragnars

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 145
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 1:40:22 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My main concern is a full blowm military-grade planner will take a long time to code up and deliver. I would rather have something simpler, easier to use, and delivered faster.


Haha we agree whole time.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 146
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 1:43:54 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I see you are still contributing.

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 147
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 2:26:33 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline 		emsoy & thewood1,

I absolutely believe this! I worked with the daily ATO process at Red/Green Flag (Nellis AFB) 1988-1997. The operations plans were created with a roomful of 12+ experienced air strike planners and an IBM mainframe cruncher (dinosaur now - today's PCs would have been great).

Developing the code for CMANO to do the same thing that involves fuel, AEW, OECM, loadouts, strike flight sizes, intelligence reports, hostile defensive ground units, etc, etc, etc would be far from a trivial or even moderate effort. And this was in a "peaceful" training environment. Doing it in the field during Desert Storm boggles the mind.

The AMP plan that has been created to date would have that whole staff green with envy (and heading for the O'Club).

Kudos for what I've seen to date.

-Wayne



< Message edited by Dimitris -- 2/13/2018 4:16:22 PM >

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 148
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 3:06:54 PM   
TyphoonFr

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 11/23/2017
From: FRA
Status: offline 		Congratulations to the devs, thanks also to the experienced "players" who bring their experiences to help developers improve Command, and create a new version including all the functionality of the AMP (which will certainly cost more than the price of a simple DLC ).


< Message edited by TyphoonFr -- 2/14/2018 10:43:57 AM >

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 149
RE: Advanced Strike Planner - 2/13/2018 3:08:36 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I see you are still contributing.


Yes. Try as you did I was not run off. You can try again but somebody dox'd you so know what I'm dealing with now. Nobody.

Focus should be on game and not on weirdo posters. This was my mistake first time.

Thank You.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 150
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