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Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions

 
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Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/5/2018 9:08:15 PM   
borislav

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/5/2018
Status: offline 		According to 12.2.4 of the manual cost for building SU should be 1 AP. I search through patch notes but could not find any change on this. In my current game as soviets vs. AI (default settings) I was paying 1 AP for SU until somewhere in early 42 when it start costing 2AP for some of them. Some are still 1 AP (like tank SU, but sappers are 2AP). Can anyone clarify this, is it bug or some change in the rule?

it is my first GC and in 41 I stopped Germans at velikaya, they reached veliki luki, drive through land bridge (but failed to take smolensk)and get stacked. in the south I stopped them west of kiev (they took zhitomir and vinnitsa) and further down i pulled out of bessarabia to defend behind denestar. During blizzard I pushed back. In the south up to rivers goryn, zbruch and dnestar. in the north i reclaimed vitebsk and velikie luki. During blizzard I encircled and destroyed more than 20 inf divisions and 10 panzer divisions. Then I changed settings to give AI more advantage (moral if I remember). Now in 42 it is stalemate.

Question for veterans; how to setup AI to give decent challenge (not to much of advantage but to make it more aggressive). I know you will say something like play pbem, but I want first to experience game in solo.

How and when you use tanks (brigades, corps), they are so weak that I'm struggling to find good use for them? They can exploit weak section of the front to crate encirclement but then they will be smashed by German panzer/mobile reserves or will find themselves isolated with little hope of braking through.

Do you build AT and AA brigades and where do you use them?

is it something wrong with air war? I'm losing so many planes for very little loses on German side. Even if I have better numbers. AI is not using aviation at all, no bombing, very little interdiction and seldom GS.
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/5/2018 9:32:06 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Welcome :)

I think regiments cost 2AP and battalions 1AP.

Can't help with the AI because I have hardly ever played it.

Tanks: Some of the early tank divisions are quite strong, concentrate and use them for "hold at all cost" hexagons.
Tank brigades are weak. But later int 1942 they can be formed into tank corps. Try to get them wins so they become guards. If you merge 2 guards tank brigades with a normal one, you will immediately get a guards Tank corps!

You will hardly ever be able to use AT and AA brigades in their role. Standard infantry units are better than AT brigades in most areas, and the best weapon against an aircraft is another aircraft.

AI is not using its resources efficiently, aviation included. AIs are generally weak at attacking, and especially with complex operations like encirclements apart from the scripted T1. Only a human opponent will make this part off the game interesting.
But try to set difficulty higher, I think it will make the AI think it has an advantage so it will attack more.


(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/5/2018 9:40:06 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		SU costs are different, think it depends on the unit size.

The AI is rubbish at playing Axis, it is OK at Soviet (just increase the difficulty level until it is a hard enough) or try a human opponent.

Tanks are one hit units in '41. Use tank brigades reserve during the blizzard to get some wins. Early tank corps with experience and SUs begin to have some hitting power in '42.

AT and AA are a waste of space as the game progresses because you need high combat value units to generate reasonable odds.

VVS is poor quality, you need a huge superiority in numbers and then you can wear them down.

(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/5/2018 10:19:17 PM   
borislav

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/5/2018
Status: offline 		Guys thanks for quick replays.
One more thing:
every turn I go to CR to air groups to put low moral groups into national reserve. I have to manually pick one by one. Is there any way to filter those with moral lower than XX? Or if this is not in game right now might be good idea to add some future patches.

Regarding AI or human opponent, I know this game was made for second one but to get grasp of mechanics and how things develop I need first to try solo.

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 4
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/6/2018 12:39:03 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borislav
I have to manually pick one by one. Is there any way to filter those with moral lower than XX? Or if this is not in game right now might be good idea to add some future patches.


No direct way - and this would be a good improvement. Indeed more filtering and being able to deselect and reselect are all good improvements.

You can however sort by morale which makes it a little easier to do all those clicks. And you can indirectly filter for morale. For example select only German planes to filter out lower morale allies or vice versa. As you get accustomed to the game you will find more and more proxies for morale which will narrow down the list indirectly. So it will usually boil down to a few lists filtered in other ways that you can batch send to reserve and then do the last few individually. But yes a proper filter to do this directly would be much better.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/6/2018 12:43:48 PM >

(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/6/2018 1:29:00 PM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borislav

Guys thanks for quick replays.
One more thing:
every turn I go to CR to air groups to put low moral groups into national reserve. I have to manually pick one by one. Is there any way to filter those with moral lower than XX? Or if this is not in game right now might be good idea to add some future patches.

Regarding AI or human opponent, I know this game was made for second one but to get grasp of mechanics and how things develop I need first to try solo.



Yes, some way to filter by "under X morale" would be great, and I have sadi it a few times, but I am not sure if morvael can make such changes. Remember morvael is not part of the team that developoed the game (officially theh game stopped being patched by the team with patch 1.07, iirc).

Anyway a filter like that would save, according to a calculus I once did playing a game as the Soviet Union, around 40 clicks PER TURN. Around 2/3minutes of clicking per turn.

< Message edited by No idea -- 3/6/2018 1:30:19 PM >

(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 6
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/6/2018 1:34:24 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea
around 40 clicks PER TURN. Around 2/3minutes of clicking per turn.


how many turns per game? how many games per player? how many players?

It would be interesting to estimate total human years spent on this?

(in reply to No idea)
Post #: 7
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/6/2018 3:11:32 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

Anyway a filter like that would save, according to a calculus I once did playing a game as the Soviet Union, around 40 clicks PER TURN. Around 2/minutes of clicking per turn.

Such filters would be great for ground units as well.
I think 40 clicks are more of a lower limit assuming a micromanagement type player.
On the other hand I have learned to value the meditative state you get when doing the commanders report click work.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/6/2018 4:31:25 PM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

quote:

Anyway a filter like that would save, according to a calculus I once did playing a game as the Soviet Union, around 40 clicks PER TURN. Around 2/minutes of clicking per turn.

Such filters would be great for ground units as well.
I think 40 clicks are more of a lower limit assuming a micromanagement type player.
On the other hand I have learned to value the meditative state you get when doing the commanders report click work.


Well, my calculus was made just with the soviet air force on mind. As an average I had to take to reserve around 20 air groups per turn due to low morale (the game ended at mid 1943, against the AI, and that taking into account I took to reserve all soviet airgroups since turn 1 to turn 3). If you add ground units also (including SUs) thinks would be even worse. Against a human player things require more micro.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 9
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 8:43:06 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Something like this?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to No idea)
Post #: 10
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 9:01:55 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Something like this?







That looks great morvael!

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 11
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 9:05:08 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent news !!!

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 12
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 3:03:08 PM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Morvael is magnificent. Hope to see it in the next patch.

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/7/2018 3:04:27 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 13
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 7:08:20 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Morvael is magnificent.


I admit now vaingloriously - I make the patches only to read such posts

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 14
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/7/2018 7:09:35 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		But to be honest I'm glacially slow now since November, with usually one or two long WitE-coding sessions per month. I think I'm getting old. The patch is in a fine shape after today's session, but my TODO list is still not empty.

< Message edited by morvael -- 3/7/2018 7:10:47 PM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 15
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/8/2018 2:18:24 AM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		No apologies necessary, Morvael. You have earned your applause. You have made massive contributions to the improvement of this game... and I salute you for your "Heroic Effort" !


< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/8/2018 2:29:38 AM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 16
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/8/2018 7:16:42 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

No apologies necessary, Morvael. You have earned your applause. You have made massive contributions to the improvement of this game... and I salute you for your "Heroic Effort" !



IMO you are using the wrong smileys. This here is morvaels personal one:


(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 17
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/8/2018 7:46:36 AM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Something like this?





Yes, thats it¡

Ps. Thank you, it will save a lot of time


< Message edited by No idea -- 3/8/2018 7:48:51 AM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 18
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/8/2018 7:57:21 PM   
borislav

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/5/2018
Status: offline 		When I put in my post that filter for moral would be nice improvement I was not even dreaming it will find its way to next patch. First time to see such thing in my 20+ years of gaming.
Thank you morvael!

(in reply to No idea)
Post #: 19
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/9/2018 7:54:21 PM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borislav

When I put in my post that filter for moral would be nice improvement I was not even dreaming it will find its way to next patch. First time to see such thing in my 20+ years of gaming.
Thank you morvael!


Well, that's only because you are not familiar with the POWER OF MORVAEL >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG-BOuN41vU

and yes... the proper stance when addressing Morvael is >>>

(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 20
RE: Soviet SU AP cost and few other questions - 3/9/2018 10:02:47 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: borislav

When I put in my post that filter for moral would be nice improvement I was not even dreaming it will find its way to next patch. First time to see such thing in my 20+ years of gaming.
Thank you morvael!


Well, that's only because you are not familiar with the POWER OF MORVAEL >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG-BOuN41vU

and yes... the proper stance when addressing Morvael is >>>



Not forgotten must be Dennis constant work on the database as well. So here are some of those D&M man smileys for him as well:

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 21
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