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RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis)

 
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RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 4:11:36 AM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

I've actually received one direct message from someone cheering me on to slay the beast.


Of course, that`s natural and obvious. Not much to lose for you on the other hand, and nothing to complain about at all. Interestingly enough you're already searching for excuses for a possible defeat. Do you already want to give up, hehe?

July 40: german troops have finally occupied Brussels, Belgium surrenders. Paris has been attacked several times to reduce entrenchement, the city will probably fall next turn and hopefully France at least; providing KZ another 20% chance to gain a diplo hit. Italy has joined the Axis, their libyan ports are blocked by allied ships.

Germany has invested more than 3 times the amount of MPPs into research than GB.






(in reply to Ktonos)
Post #: 31
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 4:50:25 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		What you call 'looking for excuses' I see as 'putting context behind my mock braggardry'. I'm not delusional, I am being realistic about my prospects. 300 game experience vs less than 10 does matter in such a contest.

I do think however that at this juncture of the game if we where to create another Sugar robot and that he would take on the allies for the rest of the game, he'd win.

To have an accurate portrait of the tech race, you have to factor how the USSR is doing on that front too compared to normally...

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 32
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 6:19:08 AM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

mock braggardry
Whatever that means.

quote:

To have an accurate portrait of the tech race, you have to factor how the USSR is doing on that front too compared to normally...


Interesting perception of GB not being part of that race.



(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 33
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 10:32:33 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

quote:

To have an accurate portrait of the tech race, you have to factor how the USSR is doing on that front too compared to normally...


Interesting perception of GB not being part of that race.



Oh it's part of it for sure! But I was just pointing how you had conveniently left out the USSR of said portrait.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 34
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 11:11:31 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: room

Well I like to go for the unfavored one so I'm gonna be on team Sugar (not that it helps)! After all he beats me so until Mika does too... I can still convince myself I'm second best

Go Sugar go







This post is tragic Room. You probably pulled for Apollo Creed & Ivan Drago.




< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/23/2018 11:13:18 AM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 12:47:01 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		KZ's France tips!

Sugar advises to pump up the French unit one str at a time to save money because you save on fraction as the game rounds down the reinforce costs. This is not a bad penny pinching advice if you plan to limit yourself on using France current assets to fight your wars and have the benefit of time (dependent if Germany operates back from Poland or not). This is because a unit readiness is tied to its str. Bumping it 1 at a time means you readiness will take a lot of time to reach it's max all across the line. If you're like me and like to go on a spending spree and reinforce later, then it's best to max reinforce. Expenses be damned!

For me the Air war in France is an all or nothing affairs. Either make a big commitment between the UK (and its carriers) and France... or don't fight on that front at all to save your mpp. Half-measure will not impact or delay the Germans in any meaningful ways. Some player try their luck at the 20% retention of French air unit for UK... The UK is not a rich power and is likely to struggle just maintaining its current air fleet... so getting beat up french planes that will be costly of replenish is not a huge boon even if you get lucky. I tend to just sell the French air unit if I'm not going to pick a fight. Advice also valid for Poland. Sell those planes on ebay!

I feel like the Maginot line is misused by most players. One common maneuver is to switch armies for corps (the Taxman shuffle™) and these corps are then later reinforced to str 10 when money allows. For me this is wrong on both counts. I don't swap my armies for corps because the difference between corp and armies on the defense is marginal, disproportionate to the cost to replenish their str. Armies are sturdier vs air and have a tiny bit more of a punch on counter the numerous events that crash French morale overall eliminate any counter-attack capacity of the French armies anyway. Your defense with France is ZOC to slow the german down and corps do just fine with those. I also don't reinforce my unit on the line higher than strength 6 (and only bump it up to 6 if they start banging on them!) this leaves you with the cashflow to be creative (Uberdiplo, HW tank, AA or AT etc.). This perception of weakness that you leave on the maginot line can work in your favor in tricking your opponent to commit troops against it (I've experienced it before, although in other games this was combined with a northern push). Bottomline is if Sugar can't make it work, odds your opponents won't. Its safe to say that one of the main takeaways from the game will be the futility of a Maginot push. Tangentially, even if your opponent don't attack the Maginot line another lesson it is safe abandon it sooner than most people do without harm. Go! Make a ball out of Paris!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 4/23/2018 4:39:36 PM >

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 36
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/23/2018 11:03:14 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		July 14th



France on its death bed... UK prepare for evacuation... No parting Diplo hits... My consolation prize is that Germany had to drop Spain chits to acquire USSR ones. Italy joined at the end of my turn... the French navy will get one turn of blockading before vanishing...

Heads-up to my opponent and to the millions reading at home, updates will be sparser for a least two weeks. I'll do at least one a day but there's going to be a total blackout from Friday to Sunday this week.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 4/23/2018 11:09:02 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 37
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 8:23:15 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		july 28th



Vichy installed, free french recognised, french fleet bombed
UK dip a toe in Libya and blockade its ports. (Interesting enough the french ship vanished before the port degraded, which means blockading is not calculated at the start of his turn but rather at the start of mine. Well... The more you know...)
Italy gets 2 USSR chits which makes the Axis chit count to something like 6 USSR - 2 Spain, so there's a chance of rolling back Allied influence in the USSR.
but meanwhile USSR passes Go and collects 200 mpps

(Forgot to mention that the USSR spared the baltic states)

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 4/24/2018 6:30:10 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 38
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 9:10:03 AM   
Ktonos

 

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Status: offline 		I've tried that assuming it would bring USSR closer to the Allies but to no avail. Do I miss something? Or did u do it to save the Northern Front units during Barbarossa?

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 39
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 9:22:23 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

I've tried that assuming it would bring USSR closer to the Allies but to no avail. Do I miss something? Or did u do it to save the Northern Front units during Barbarossa?


Yeah... had I went for them my units would be right in his grill since he took Lithuania. While not entirely safe by air... that means he has to save some bomber for barbarossa opening if he wants to destroy them (and not be all in NA let's say...)

(in reply to Ktonos)
Post #: 40
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 4:48:29 PM   
Sugar

 

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Status: offline 		Despite all rumors I never had all bombers in NA, usually not more than available after Fall Gelb.

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Post #: 41
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 8:27:09 PM   
nnason


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From: Washington DC Metro Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

So it was indeed a Maginot major offensive and not a faint

I guess early game is like 1-1, France surrender at July the latest, but USSR with one foot into the party.

PS; I'love to see the Sea Lion or not Sea Lion poker game in this one.


Speaking of which... Third diplohit, USSR at 55%. (in May 1940!)





3 hits on 3 chits (450Mpp) in what 10 12 turns that is BEYOND AMAZING! Statistically should have been one hit. Has anyone else seen this with diplo with the USSR?

_____________________________

Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
LTC Field Artillery
US Army Retired

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 42
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 9:26:08 PM   
Sugar

 

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Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		He had a 30% chance during 3 consecutive turns, and several other turns with lower chances before, followed by 1 turn at 25 and another at 20% achieving no hit at all. I wouldn't call that incredibly lucky, and alltogether he achieved 1 more hit than likely. My counter was also a gamble, and still is.

From my experience I'd say the chances equal the opportunities; but they actually do have the potential to achieve decisive advantages. In my current match against WarBaron I achieved 4 hits at Spain in 4 consecutive turns, and 2 more at Turkey in another 2 consecutive turns, with a probability of 10 and 5%. Spain joined the Axis the moment France surrendered.

In the next patch costs for influencing Majors will increase to 175 MPPs. From my perspective this part of the game is reasonable, reminding war not to be an example of pure calculation.

Aug. 40: units of the Luftwaffe together with some of the Regia Marina sunk 1 brit. battleship and 1 battlecruiser at the libyan coast. Units of the R.A.F. attacked an italian HQ south of Tobruk, achieving 1 hit. A counterattack of 2 italian armies lead to the destruction of a brit. garrison; 2 brit. tanks were spotted in the second row. Commando Supremo is discussing a withdraw in face of possibly overwhelming powers.

(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 43
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 9:51:41 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

He had a 30% chance during 3 consecutive turns, and several other turns with lower chances before, followed by 1 turn at 25 and another at 20% achieving no hit at all. I wouldn't call that incredibly lucky, and alltogether he achieved 1 more hit than likely. My counter was also a gamble, and still is.

From my experience I'd say the chances equal the opportunities; but they actually do have the potential to achieve decisive advantages. In my current match against WarBaron I achieved 4 hits at Spain in 4 consecutive turns, and 2 more at Turkey in another 2 consecutive turns, with a probability of 10 and 5%. Spain joined the Axis the moment France surrendered.

In the next patch costs for influencing Majors will increase to 175 MPPs. From my perspective this part of the game is reasonable, reminding war not to be an example of pure calculation.



The change will have another unintended effect. It's going to be clear from the get-go when people spend on a major when they see 175 mpp of diplo showing up on the report ledger.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 44
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 10:05:30 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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"From my experience I'd say the chances equal the opportunities; but they actually do have the potential to achieve decisive advantages. In my current match against WarBaron I achieved 4 hits at Spain in 4 consecutive turns, and 2 more at Turkey in another 2 consecutive turns, with a probability of 10 and 5%. Spain joined the Axis the moment France surrendered." Sugar




So you are playing someone that allowed you to have Spain join the Axis thru Diplomacy on the fall of France. No need for player ranking here.

_____________________________


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Post #: 45
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/24/2018 10:43:14 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
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Status: offline 		Next time someone is asking for a match I will undoubtly ask you for permission at first.

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Post #: 46
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 12:14:58 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/25/2018 11:48:41 AM >

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Post #: 47
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 12:46:42 AM   
Harun

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/16/2018
Status: offline 		How can he know what someone will do or not do?

I have enjoyed all the tips and could see someone blow off Diplo against the AI. (Though Fall Weiss makes you regret doing that!) Then they play first PBEM and they get schooled. It happens.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 48
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 12:47:42 AM   
Harun

 

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Status: offline 		The main point is even low % can hit, each turn.

I played a game where the Italian frogmen succeeded 6 times!

(in reply to Harun)
Post #: 49
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 10:26:34 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/25/2018 11:48:26 AM >

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Post #: 50
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 10:57:24 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		I've got nothing against a Sugar hate parade, pvtBenjamin. But this is a family friendly AAR, can we do that elsewhere?

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 51
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 11:51:54 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
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Status: offline 		I deleted the posts which were much less confrontational than the banter between you and Sugar in this thread above but it is your game.

If you call that friendly I wouldn't want to see un friendly.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/25/2018 11:55:42 AM >

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Post #: 52
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 12:02:30 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

I deleted the posts which were much less confrontational than the banter between you and Sugar in this thread above but it is your game.

If you call that friendly I wouldn't want to see un friendly.




Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 53
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/25/2018 10:43:47 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
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Status: offline 		When Italy declared war some british commander were a little overeager to test their mettle against the Italians. Report were saying they were unprepared (150 mpp in tech total) so they rushed to bardia to set it up as a base for further advances. While they were expecting 4 armies (and a tank sigthed in Tobruk) the disposition of the Italian army caught the british offguard as they were not expecting such an aggressive posture. At that moment the two tank corps were still in the rear being refited with new tank of french inspired design, bundled with copies of 'Vers l'armée de métier' by De Gaulle. Mercifully, the Italian did not strike and the british force marched a garrison to protect the flank of the southern army and hold the line while the tank corps were catching up to the front line troops.

Aug 25th



The Italians struck first, destroying the garrison but the British counterattacked destroying an army and forcing another to withdraw from their defensive line (at str 3).


< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 4/25/2018 10:46:00 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 54
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 4:09:12 AM   
Sugar

 

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Status: offline 		Early sept. 40: a brit. cruiser was sunk by a german mar. bomber north of Bengasi, thereby ending the blockade of vital libyan ports. Ital. tank- and inf.-forces attacked a brit army west of Tobruk, dealing 6 points of damage while receiving 4. Commando Supremo ordered a partial withdraw.

The race to Bengasi has started.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 55
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 6:55:15 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Damn the range on those maritime bombers. The Malta effect will have to take it from here...

The brits destroys another army and occupies positions south of Tobruk, the siege of the fortress-city begins. Graziani HQ comes under heavy fire.

1940/9/8




< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 4/26/2018 7:01:09 AM >

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 56
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 12:11:43 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		What to do with the DAK?

Depending on who holds what in NA, the DAK spawns in different places.

Tripoli (Allied) + Gazala (Allied) = Trieste
Tripoli (Allied) = Benghazi
Tripoli (Axis) + Gazala (Axis) = Benghazi
Tripoli (Axis) + Gazala (Allied) = Tripoli
etc.

This means it's possible to game the system to get the DAK to spawn in a favorable spot. Example, if I omit to take Gazala, take the cities behind it and reduce Benghazi's port and city to 0. The DAK spawns trapped and crippled. Sugar could still select not to spawn the DAK but given they appear on his turn he could operate the plane out, and by itself is still worth the price because it allows him to go over the unit limit. While it's not game breaking (like taking all of the UK but not London) but it still feels cheap as heck.

What says you, dear reader? Should I take Gazala or not? (Sugar, you can chime in too)

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 57
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 1:59:49 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		I agree that it is a bit over the top.
It's potentially even worse as I think there might also be a program bug, that if there aren't hexes to spawn in the right area the units never even show up. I read that on a thread here some time ago.
If you do this, you would have to be sure there is no chain of HQs that would put them in supply to one of the towns along the road.
Even if they were in supply, most of the units are half strength, you could hurt them as they have to choose between reinforcing and moved.



_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 58
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 2:38:17 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Status: offline 		Seems to me you should only not take it if none of your troops go west of Gazala.

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Post #: 59
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 4/26/2018 2:39:46 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		You should use every opportunity you possibly could to your advantage, I would undoubtly do the same.

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 60
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