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Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Campaign Series: Middle East 1948-1985 >> Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart Page: [1]
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Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/11/2018 3:21:11 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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As Berto has previously explained that the total number of nations / factions featured in the whole range of Matrix Campaign Series games is (for good technical reasons) going to be limited to 100 I thought it would be interesting to see how many of these slots have already be used in the Campaign Series games and historical mods produced over up to this point in time and spoken for in what we know will be in the new games scheduled to come out in the next year or so.

All told there are 13 games & mods to consider here that break down into 3 main categories.

Firstly there are the 4 original Campaign Series games, (East Front, West Front, Rising Sun & Divided Ground) all of which were originally produced by Talonsoft and the first 3 of which were further developed as the JTCS package by the Matrix team.

Secondly there are 5 3rd party mods built on these games which are, in chronological order the “Great War Mod”, the “Forgotten Battles mod”, (mostly expanding the coverage of East Front) the “Korean War Mod”, the “Divided Ground Vietnam mod ”, and the “Cold War Mod”.

Thirdly there are the 4 Matrix Campaign Series games and DLC that we already have details for, “Middle East” that is already out there, its Iran/Iraq war DLC that is in production, “Vietnam” due out later this year, and the base game for East front III which we will hopefully see before the end of the 2018/2019 financial year.

Based on the information available the MS Word table document that can be accessed via the dropbox link below gives details of all the Nations / Factions so far covered or confirmed as being covered in these games. The original Divided Ground game has not been included here as the nation slots used do not include any ones not in the CS Middle East game. The Divided Ground Vietnam mod has not been included here as the nation slots used do not include any ones not in the forthcoming CS Vietnam game or the existing Cold War Mod. The Forgotten Battles mod is not included as I do not think any new nations have been added in it with the exception of the Soviet sponsored LWP Polish forces.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1anx246n6kuyho/CS%20Nation%20Slot%20Use%20Chart.doc?dl=0

As can be seen from the table the total number of Nations/Factions covered so far is a fairly hefty 76 or rather 77 after you include the Soviet sponsored LWP Polish forces in the Forgotten Battles mod”.

Does this mean that there are only 23 slots left for everything else ? Not quite, the new Side A / Side B system introduced with Campaign Series Middle East means that you will no longer need duplicate nation sets for nations that did or might have switched sides, (allways allowing for civil war situations of course) therefore the Vichy French, Axis Soviets and Allied Fins etc can now go. I calculate this saves 7 nations slots. Also for reasons explained in the table I think the Warsaw Pact nation slot in the cold war mod could go as well. This would take the number of used slots down to 69 leaving 31 free for new nations / factions.

Also the Pro East / Pro West concept used in both the Middle East and the forthcoming Vietnam game could be extended to cover the 3 World War 2 games and the WW1 title and any associated DLC that might be released down the line. If 4 of the slot total was allocated to “Generic pro entente” “Generic pro Central Powers”, “Generic pro Allies” and “Generic pro Axis” and Colombia (if covered in the Korean DLC) was treated as part of its “Generic Pro West Faction, an unlimited number of smaller nations could be covered and you would still have 28 empty slots to play with.

Not that just because a nation/faction has previously featured in a CS game or mod in its own right that this means it should automatically be featured as such in the new series. For example Thailand was in Rising Sun but is not I think billed to feature in CS Vietnam in its own right.

I suspect that resistance to having particular Nations / Factions downgraded to membership of a “Generic Pro” slot would be rather reduced if you could build into the scenario editor the ability to choose between a range of nation flag emblems apart from the default one and also for these 6 “Generic Pro” factions to have the ability to add a faction side name specific to that particular scenario.

Regards
Ian


< Message edited by Hoplite1963 -- 5/11/2018 4:34:32 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/11/2018 5:01:15 PM   
Jason Petho


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I will post the list when I get home.

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RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 4:27:20 AM   
Jason Petho


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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

00 People's Republic of China
01 Czechoslovakia
02 Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
03 German Democratic Republic
04 North Korea
05 Netherlands
06 Belgium
07 Canada
08 France
09 United Kingdom
10 United States of America
11 Republic of Vietnam
12 South Korea
13 Laos
14 Generic Pro-West MIDDLE EAST
15 Turkey
16 Argentina
17 New Zealand
18 Germany
19 Australia
20 Poland
21 People's Republic of Vietnam
22 Israel
23 Egypt
24 Iraq
25 Jordan
26 Syria
27 Lebanon
28 Generic Pro-East MIDDLE EAST
29 Libya
30 Algeria
31 Hungary
32 Italy
33 Nationalist China
34 Denmark
35 Yugoslavia
36 Romania
37 Uganda
38 Greece
39 Norway
40 celand
41 Finland
42 Cuba
43 Bulgaria
44 Morocco
45 Spain
46 Portugal
47 Ireland
48 Sudan
49 Cambodia
50 Thailand
51 Malaysia
52 Philippines
53 Japan
54 Tunisia
55 Sri Lanka
56 Ethiopia
57 Iran
58 India
59 Pakistan
60 Afghanistan
61 Tanzania
62 Albania
63 Generic Liberation Front
64 Chad
65 Somalia
66 Sweden
67 Bosnia
68 Slovenia
69 Croatia
70 Serbia
71 Montenegro
72 Macedonia
73 Angola
74 African Union
75 United Nations
76 Rhodesia
77 Zimbabwe
78 South Africa
79 Mozambique
80 Zambia
81 Luxembourg
82 Colombia
83 Yemen
84 Switzerland
85 Austria
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98 Generic Pro-West VIETNAM
99 Generic Pro-East VIETNAM


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RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 2:01:22 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Hi Jason
Thanks very much for sharing this, wow and I was not even fishing. I have a few comments and suggestions to make, here if it is not too late to do so.

1.Can slot “85 Austria” also be used for the Austro-Hungarian Empire prior to its collapse in 1918?

2.Suggest that slots numbers “40 Iceland” and “81 Luxembourg” are merged under a new slot 40 “NATO” faction that could also be used for NATO multi-national command structures and the NATO Mixed Service Organisation, (NATO’s international security units recruited from displaced persons from eastern Europe) Slot 81 could then be used for a new “Russia” faction covering the Imperial and White Russian armies, the WW2 German sponsored “Russian Liberation Army”, and the Russian Army post 1991. (All of which used/use the same white over blue over red horizontal tricolour emblem)

3.Merge the “Colombia” nation currently covered by slot 82 (I presume they are there for their “1st Columbia Battalion” fielded under UN command in the Korean War into the United Nations slot 75. (This could also contain the UN sponsored White Tiger United Nations Partisan Infantry Forces operating in the north during the Korean War.) Slot 82 could then be used for the Free French.

4.It is a matter of personal taste but I would be inclined to sacrifice “Tunisia” (slot 54) and Yemen (slot 83) to free up dedicated slots for “Spanish Republicans” and “Spanish Nationalist” factions” to enable a Spanish Civil War DLC to be added to the new West Front game. As they were often split into a range of factions wonder if Yemen are anyway best handled using the “Generic Pro East/Pro West” approach as is currently the case for them in CSME.

5.This would leave you with the 12 empty slots you have now. To make the most of these, as it looks as if each distinct game that has them requires its own 2 slots for dedicated pairs of “Generic Pro...” factions, could these 12 slots be spent on 6 pairs of such faction slots, 1 each for the 3 WW2 games, 1 for a WW1 title, and 2 for those 2 additional post 1945 titles where they would make the most difference, with a death of Yugoslavia game / DLC perhaps being a strong candidate for one of these?

Thanks again for sharing all this information here.
Kind regards
Ian


< Message edited by Hoplite1963 -- 5/12/2018 2:02:09 PM >

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 4
RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 3:12:53 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoplite1963

Hi Jason
Thanks very much for sharing this, wow and I was not even fishing. I have a few comments and suggestions to make, here if it is not too late to do so.

1.Can slot “85 Austria” also be used for the Austro-Hungarian Empire prior to its collapse in 1918?

2.Suggest that slots numbers “40 Iceland” and “81 Luxembourg” are merged under a new slot 40 “NATO” faction that could also be used for NATO multi-national command structures and the NATO Mixed Service Organisation, (NATO’s international security units recruited from displaced persons from eastern Europe) Slot 81 could then be used for a new “Russia” faction covering the Imperial and White Russian armies, the WW2 German sponsored “Russian Liberation Army”, and the Russian Army post 1991. (All of which used/use the same white over blue over red horizontal tricolour emblem)

3.Merge the “Colombia” nation currently covered by slot 82 (I presume they are there for their “1st Columbia Battalion” fielded under UN command in the Korean War into the United Nations slot 75. (This could also contain the UN sponsored White Tiger United Nations Partisan Infantry Forces operating in the north during the Korean War.) Slot 82 could then be used for the Free French.

4.It is a matter of personal taste but I would be inclined to sacrifice “Tunisia” (slot 54) and Yemen (slot 83) to free up dedicated slots for “Spanish Republicans” and “Spanish Nationalist” factions” to enable a Spanish Civil War DLC to be added to the new West Front game. As they were often split into a range of factions wonder if Yemen are anyway best handled using the “Generic Pro East/Pro West” approach as is currently the case for them in CSME.

5.This would leave you with the 12 empty slots you have now. To make the most of these, as it looks as if each distinct game that has them requires its own 2 slots for dedicated pairs of “Generic Pro...” factions, could these 12 slots be spent on 6 pairs of such faction slots, 1 each for the 3 WW2 games, 1 for a WW1 title, and 2 for those 2 additional post 1945 titles where they would make the most difference, with a death of Yugoslavia game / DLC perhaps being a strong candidate for one of these?

Thanks again for sharing all this information here.
Kind regards
Ian



Thank you for your comments Ian! Just a quick comment on this: it would be possible to have different naming notation attached to different era. For instance "18 Germany" could for instance in WW I context / game compile say "German Empire" in-game, in WW 2 it could say "German Reich", and in post-WW2 era it could say West Germany, then Germany, depending on year.

In a similar way, "85 Austria" could indeed say "Austro-Hungarian Empire" in WW I context.

Just one way to look at this.

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RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 5:03:17 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Hi Chrossroads
Good afternoon. Thanks for that. This being the case perhaps you could merge slot 76 Rhodesia with slot 77 Zimbabwe and use the extra slot freed up to put the “Allied Italians” back as a force in their own right in West front. They do after all need to fight the “Italians” of the Italian Social Republic as well as the Germans. By the end of WW2 they were after all fielding the equivalent of 6 infantry divisions (combat groups) on the Italian front, all of which are already present in the current version of West Front.

I think you will still need a specific “Russian” slot though so the “White Russians can go up against the “Union of Soviet Socialist Republics” in the Russian Civil War.

On the basis of what you are saying here wonder if you could use the nation slot for a country that was only in one game in a particular era for a completely different country that you wanted to use for another game set in a different era?

For example the nations used by slot 37 “Uganda” and slot 61 “Tanzania” did not exist prior to WW2 so could these slots also be used for say Bolivia and Paraguay for the Chaco War?

On a similar basis. After the Spanish Civil War ended in 1939 any slots employed for the Spanish Republicans and Spanish Nationalist factions would no longer be needed (as slot 45 already covers “Spain) so could these be used for Nigeria and Biafra for the Biafran War?

Kind regards
Ian



< Message edited by Hoplite1963 -- 5/12/2018 5:05:03 PM >

(in reply to Crossroads)
Post #: 6
RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 5:18:49 PM   
berto


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By means of compiler preprocessing directives ('#ifdef ...' and so son), we can customize the nations list for different wars and eras as necessary. We have strived to achieve a "good enough" all-purpose nations list, but all-cases-considered "perfection" is unnecessary.

Also note that we are not overly concerned with pre-1930 for now. With so much on our plates already, we will worry about WWI etc. later if and when.

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(in reply to Hoplite1963)
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RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/12/2018 6:48:39 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Hi berto
Thanks for that, entirely appreciate that the post war and WW2 games have priority over the earlier periods.

Regards
Ian


< Message edited by Hoplite1963 -- 5/13/2018 5:27:12 AM >

(in reply to berto)
Post #: 8
RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 5/13/2018 5:56:07 AM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Hi berto
On reflection this would seem to mean that the 38 nation slots used for countries that did not exist prior to 1945 would appear to be available to use for nations/factions that only existed prior to 1945 or earlier.

Quite see why you don’t need to worry about running out of slots for the earlier period and that you would not need to either give up any of your planned slot occupants or any of the nations previously featured in CS historical games / mods.

You might even want to use some slots more than once for example slot 11 “Republic of Vietnam” could be used For Imperial, White and the German sponsored Russian armies prior to 1945 as well as the post 1991 Russian forces.

With judicious use of pairs of “Generic Pro...” slots you need never run out of faction slots, as opposed to the time to make the games to use them.

Regards
Ian

(in reply to Hoplite1963)
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RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 12/24/2018 8:03:00 AM   
macdonncadh

 

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Jason, I know you are terrible pressed for slots. Is there any way of getting some of the Central America nations/factions. I see Cuba, but would like Nicaragua, Contras, FSLN.

The team has worked so hard, and I am enjoying Middle East like I never thought I would. Would you be willing to look into a way users could add nations for what-ifs. I do realize there may not be much of a call for it, and I wouldn't want to suggest anything that would mess you what you are doing. I'd would love to do a Nicaraguan Revolution module if there was a way to do it that met Matrix standards. I have oob info. Granted, it is a niche interest, but I would turn it right over to Matrix and the team here, for correction and approval.

And I have a idea for a amazing what-if predicated on a really, really, really hard Brexit!

macdonnchadh

(in reply to Hoplite1963)
Post #: 10
RE: Campaign Series Nation Slot Review Chart - 12/24/2018 9:10:05 PM   
Jason Petho


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Certainly good ideas, Robert!

In the mean time, you could use the 14 and 28 country slots (adding to the existing organizations there)

That is a good opportunity to see if your organizations work as well!

Don't forget, that our standards are to build a country from 1948-1985 for OOB's. There in lies a huge challenge, I presume ever more so for the various Central American countries.

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