Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: specie1

Thanks Mike,

I heard distinct sinking sounds afterwards that seemed to confirm it for me. Does that sound right?

Created by the amazing Dixie

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ORIGINAL: Timotheus

Yeah, this game models everything.

I have read a few books on uboats, and there were instances when the sub was so damaged by depth charges that the skipper decided to surface to save the crew.

In fact, in Chicago, there is a real life uboat in the Museum of Science and Industry (and it is THE ONLY THING worth seeing in that place... well, it is fun getting lost in the mirror maze). USA captured this sub (and it's Enigma) in WW2. The "geniuses" in USNAVY wanted to destroy it in a live fire exercise , but fortunately the guy who captured it became an admiral in the meantime, and having heard what the "geniuses" wanted to do took steps to preserve this piece of history...

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: specie1

Thanks Mike,

I heard distinct sinking sounds afterwards that seemed to confirm it for me. Does that sound right?

Probably, but there's a chance something else sank. I'd say she's headed home if she didn't sink. I recall only once that one of my subs survived. I suspect it's pretty rare to survive.

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Actually, sinking them outright is preferable as they can and DO sometimes get torpedo hits on the attackers when they surface. I had one German Uboat (its an Iroman scenario) sink two CAs when the escorting destroyer forced it to surface.

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ORIGINAL: spence

Can anyone cite a historical incident where this occurred (manning the deck gun(s) I've heard of)?

I don't know of any time it occurred in RL. This is another example where the original dev team of GG and Co. knew a lot about airplanes.

Launching a torpedo takes interactions of most essential systems: HP air, AC power, hydraulics. It takes coordination of the attack center and the TR. The TR can "launch" a fish alone, but it would be blind and run wherever the bow was pointing, +/- whatever that last gyro entry was on that fish. At an extreme up or down angle, probable with flooding bad enough to cause a battle surface, the TR wouldn't be able to do that much. Smoke ditto for other, obvious reasons not related to angle but more the torpedomen trying to breathe.

Subs live and survive underwater. A D/E did not surface except in extremis, normally to abandon ship. They were not worrying about fighting back, at least with torpedoes.

Is the chance of scoring a torpedo hit decreased?

In the game? Who knows. Maybe. In RL? There's basically zero chance of a hit. If the boat was outside arming run range then the degrees of accumulated error on a blind shot would make it essentially a random. Some variables, such as length and aspect of the target, its speed, its evasion capability, etc., but you're talking luck to the Nth degree.

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ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I am not aware of any Japanese boats doing it, but US and German boats both have a history of not going without a fight.

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I am not aware of any Japanese boats doing it, but US and German boats both have a history of not going without a fight.

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ORIGINAL: spence

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Actually, sinking them outright is preferable as they can and DO sometimes get torpedo hits on the attackers when they surface. I had one German Uboat (its an Iroman scenario) sink two CAs when the escorting destroyer forced it to surface.

I am just curious. I recently had an IJN sub forced to the surface firing torpedoes left and right (more chances however small than if it had attacked during the sub attack phase), but not hitting anything fortunately (It did fire at a battleship several times)

Can anyone cite a historical incident where this occurred (manning the deck gun(s) I've heard of)?

Is the chance of scoring a torpedo hit decreased?

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If the commander is highly aggressive, there a chance he will surface when low on torpedoes and using deck guns. Unless you hit a mine or seriously damage beyond repair.

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ORIGINAL: spence

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If the commander is highly aggressive, there a chance he will surface when low on torpedoes and using deck guns. Unless you hit a mine or seriously damage beyond repair.

I know how the game works. My question has always been whether or not a particular game "mechanic" reflects reality. In the case of IJN submarines it seems that none of them ever fired torpedoes at their attackers after having been FORCED to surface because of damage

Using deck guns seems to have been the norm. It should be noted that the escorts who had depth charged the submarine to the surface got to shoot with any gun that would bear from the moment that the submarine surfaced. In most cases that was a whole bunch of guns but occasionally the submarine would surface so close to the escort that its main armament could not be depressed to bear on the submarine. In any case the result was (usually) that the submarine would be hit multiple times by relatively big guns before its gun crew had even gotten near their gun (along with a supply of ammunition). Thus it was that submarines always lost their confrontations with escorts once they were forced to the surface by depth charging/damage.

But since I checked the TROMs of all Japanese submarines (according to combinedfleet.com) and found NO INSTANCES of launching torpedoes at their attackers after being seriously damaged underwater I wondered if it had ever happened. It seems that U-371 singularly holds that honor (and although the "homing" torpedo hit it did not sink the Free French Corvette SENEGALAIS at which it was fired). Several IJN submarines were forced to the surface by damage but although they manned their deck guns (or attempted to) NONE of them fired their torpedoes.

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ORIGINAL: Skyros

Well Spence being that it was one of my subs, I have to say that is the first time I have seen a sub fire torpedoes when forced to surface and I have been playing this great game for nine years. Just be thankful he missed the Massachusetts because that video would now be my signature.

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I've seen it scores of times.