Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Rotterdam was not being supplied by the British via the North Sea. The North Sea could have been securely held by nothing but Axis naval/air forces and Rotterdam would have still been in supply.

The notional unit holding Rotterdam would be a Dutch unit - absent any other Allied country's unit being present. Rotterdam is a city in the Netherlands and thus a notional unit in a still unconquered Netherlands would never be out of supply.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
re: Russo/Japan pact - requested by Stalin, with designs on Persia. Although I have heard of some groups starting with such a Pact in place, this is not actually explicitly allowed in the rules, at the start of the game. 2 players could agree to one informally, before starting, but the rules would not prevent them from breaking their word on the first turn.

This is because - "Major powers from opposing sides can agree to enter into a neutrality pact during any peace step provided they are not at war with each other." The set-up rules nowhere grant a chance for this to happen. Existing Pacts are noted at the beginning of a scenario.

The rules also allow this: "Two major powers at war can agree to come to peace on any terms mutually acceptable (except for transferring units)."

I have never been 100% clear on whether Powers not at war can thus make a more free-wheeling Pact or can only make a basic non-aggresion Pact with no alterations of territory or a trade agreement. But 2 Powers at war definitely can, using "any terms". Paging Paul D, Paul D to the Rules Rules Rules courtesy line, please.

Now when Joe asks Tojo for such a Pact early in the game, Tojo is usually going to reply - "How many Oil will you send me to say Yes?" Because Tojo knows the Russians are somewhat resource-rich because their resources only generate 0.25 and then 0.5 Build Points, each. And Tojo can really really use some extra oil, both to fuel operations in China and to fuel his more efficient factories. He also knows one reason Stalin is requesting this Pact - Persia - which can be a glittering prize for Tojo as well, as can most of the coastal bits of Russia's Maritime Province, often without Russia being able to do all that much about it, in either locale. The IJN is a powerful force on the board, and Tojo is not going to agree not to molest such easily taken prizes for nothing. He can often gain more in Siberia+Persia, more easily, than he can from those stubborn Chinese, and his teammates back in Europe will be gleefully drinking toasts in his honor, but not really doing much else to help him, so Tojo is kinda interested in Joe's offer, and he stays on the line to listen to what else Joe might say.

Then Joe will answer - "And how many Build Points will you send me back?" - because he needs full build points to build his armies, not partial build points.

So a deal will be cut for 3 Russian Oil to go to Japan in exchange for 2 Build Points. Or some variation on those #s in a negotiation.

Keep in mind that WiF is designed to be a 5 player game, with one individual winner, not an everyone-is-a-winner Team game. And all this begins to impact USA - USSR relations. And the USSR might need the USA's help to stay alive in the deep darkness that is December, 1941, with Adolf's troopers looking at the spires of the Kremlin in their binoculars. A USSR sending oil to fuel the IJN might not be too appreciated by Franklin.

Especially if a war-happy Soviet Union forces the withdrawal of a beefy "5" chit from the US Entry Pool in 1939, before the USA can move it to the Tension Pool and take a large step toward it's First Gear-Up. In 1940 with a pool full of "Zero" chits, the USA might feel differently.

In almost every AAR in this forum, the Russians take Persia and feel there are no down-sides to their actions. And the Japanese blithely ignore the whole thing. I will tell you, as Japan this is precisely the move I most want the Russians to make, unless the crafty Allies invade Persia with multiple Major Powers simultaneously, as they did in history, and are very thorough about this.

Without a Pact in place, Russia DoWs Persia, Japan aligns it and instantly dispatches reserve forces carefully held on standby in Canton or Hainan, 24/7 every impulse of every turn of the game so far. They occupy some of the oil wells and ports; meanwhile they announce "We declare War on the USSR." Persia surrenders and Japan holds all of the oil, with very little that the Russians can do about it, absent some risky die rolls with some expensive PARAtroopers, perhaps. Paratroopers that still might survive, but might suddenly meet a combat experienced Japanese INFantry army, with carrier-borne Zeroes flying overhead, with some suspected Japanese Battle Cruisers on the ocean horizon, starting to twinkle with little lights in sets of 3 on each end, while the Paras are still disorganized and out of supply, and Zhukov a month worth of marching away.

Meanwhile, back in the Maritime Province, the Imperial Guard and the "Sasebo" and "Kure" Marine Expeditionary Forces, backed by more Zeroes overhead and an impressive line of Battleships that look incredibly massive in the Russian scout's binoculars, casually stroll ashore at most any point they wish, followed soon by Japanese HQ logistics troops and further troops to begin the soon to end siege of Vladivostok, as reports of breaks in the Trans-Siberian railway begin to slowly reach Moscow - something about Japanese infantry having been airlifted into a remote corner of northern Manchuria and then marching across an undefended border. Rumors of small Japanese mobile forces operating in the wastes of Mongolia also begin filtering in...

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

(most of this post will move beyond how MWiF is currently coded, because these will all be large challenges to code)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
re: Russo/Japan pact - requested by Stalin, with designs on Persia. Although I have heard of some groups starting with such a Pact in place, this is not actually explicitly allowed in the rules, at the start of the game. 2 players could agree to one informally, before starting, but the rules would not prevent them from breaking their word on the first turn.

This is because - "Major powers from opposing sides can agree to enter into a neutrality pact during any peace step provided they are not at war with each other." The set-up rules nowhere grant a chance for this to happen. Existing Pacts are noted at the beginning of a scenario.

The rules also allow this: "Two major powers at war can agree to come to peace on any terms mutually acceptable (except for transferring units)."

I have never been 100% clear on whether Powers not at war can thus make a more free-wheeling Pact or can only make a basic non-aggresion Pact with no alterations of territory or a trade agreement. But 2 Powers at war definitely can, using "any terms". Paging Paul D, Paul D to the Rules Rules Rules courtesy line, please.

Now when Joe asks Tojo for such a Pact early in the game, Tojo is usually going to reply - "How many Oil will you send me to say Yes?" Because Tojo knows the Russians are somewhat resource-rich because their resources only generate 0.25 and then 0.5 Build Points, each. And Tojo can really really use some extra oil, both to fuel operations in China and to fuel his more efficient factories. He also knows one reason Stalin is requesting this Pact - Persia - which can be a glittering prize for Tojo as well, as can most of the coastal bits of Russia's Maritime Province, often without Russia being able to do all that much about it, in either locale. The IJN is a powerful force on the board, and Tojo is not going to agree not to molest such easily taken prizes for nothing. He can often gain more in Siberia+Persia, more easily, than he can from those stubborn Chinese, and his teammates back in Europe will be gleefully drinking toasts in his honor, but not really doing much else to help him, so Tojo is kinda interested in Joe's offer, and he stays on the line to listen to what else Joe might say.

Then Joe will answer - "And how many Build Points will you send me back?" - because he needs full build points to build his armies, not partial build points.

So a deal will be cut for 3 Russian Oil to go to Japan in exchange for 2 Build Points. Or some variation on those #s in a negotiation.

Keep in mind that WiF is designed to be a 5 player game, with one individual winner, not an everyone-is-a-winner Team game. And all this begins to impact USA - USSR relations. And the USSR might need the USA's help to stay alive in the deep darkness that is December, 1941, with Adolf's troopers looking at the spires of the Kremlin in their binoculars. A USSR sending oil to fuel the IJN might not be too appreciated by Franklin.

Especially if a war-happy Soviet Union forces the withdrawal of a beefy "5" chit from the US Entry Pool in 1939, before the USA can move it to the Tension Pool and take a large step toward it's First Gear-Up. In 1940 with a pool full of "Zero" chits, the USA might feel differently.

In almost every AAR in this forum, the Russians take Persia and feel there are no down-sides to their actions. And the Japanese blithely ignore the whole thing. I will tell you, as Japan this is precisely the move I most want the Russians to make, unless the crafty Allies invade Persia with multiple Major Powers simultaneously, as they did in history, and are very thorough about this.

Without a Pact in place, Russia DoWs Persia, Japan aligns it and instantly dispatches reserve forces carefully held on standby in Canton or Hainan, 24/7 every impulse of every turn of the game so far. They occupy some of the oil wells and ports; meanwhile they announce "We declare War on the USSR." Persia surrenders and Japan holds all of the oil, with very little that the Russians can do about it, absent some risky die rolls with some expensive PARAtroopers, perhaps. Paratroopers that still might survive, but might suddenly meet a combat experienced Japanese INFantry army, with carrier-borne Zeroes flying overhead, with some suspected Japanese Battle Cruisers on the ocean horizon, starting to twinkle with little lights in sets of 3 on each end, while the Paras are still disorganized and out of supply, and Zhukov a month worth of marching away.

Meanwhile, back in the Maritime Province, the Imperial Guard and the "Sasebo" and "Kure" Marine Expeditionary Forces, backed by more Zeroes overhead and an impressive line of Battleships that look incredibly massive in the Russian scout's binoculars, casually stroll ashore at most any point they wish, followed soon by Japanese HQ logistics troops and further troops to begin the soon to end siege of Vladivostok, as reports of breaks in the Trans-Siberian railway begin to slowly reach Moscow - something about Japanese infantry having been airlifted into a remote corner of northern Manchuria and then marching across an undefended border. Rumors of small Japanese mobile forces operating in the wastes of Mongolia also begin filtering in...

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

(most of this post will move beyond how MWiF is currently coded, because these will all be large challenges to code)

A very interesting post and one that you make me want to try in a future game. With respect to actually implementing the trade of 3 Soviet Oil in exchange for 2 Japanese Build points, which I assume is what you're referring to about being beyond MWiF current code, it would be a "piece of cake" to implement this trade through editing the game file.