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Question on HQs - 6/20/2003 8:17:54 PM   
LordCucumber

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/17/2003
From: Holland
Status: offline 		I have a question regarding HQs. What exactly are the ingame implications of losing your HQ unit. I know when C&C is on your units may not get in contact with eachother, but to what extent is this a fact? What other nasty things await when you lose the headquarters (A0) unit?

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- 6/20/2003 9:13:14 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Well, it is a lot harder to rally the boys round the flag if there's no one to hold that flag. Also, and this one can be a killer, if you lose your A0 (or even if he is badly suppressed, I think), and your opponent captures all of the VH's on the board, your A0 must pass a morale check to see if the game continues. He cannot pass that morale check if he doesn't exist any more so you lose right then and there. Send your guy out in front at Kasserine and I'll show you how it works. LOL

:D

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Post #: 2
- 6/20/2003 9:39:18 PM   
LordCucumber

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/17/2003
From: Holland
Status: offline 		Jim.. my friend.. you would have to hold ALL the VHs now would you not... That might be a slight problem right now LOL :D. No I don't think I will make that mistake twice ;)

Anyway, thank you for that very clear answer. I may yet fight on in the Market Garden PBEM. though rallying men may become a problem.. Ah well.. they were exhausted and running anyways... we'll see how it all ends.

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- 6/20/2003 9:52:41 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I am not having the best of luck in my Market Garden either. My reserves are just now coming into play so there may be hope yet.

Got bashed around pretty hard with my starting forces.

:(

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Post #: 4
- 6/21/2003 12:47:56 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		It's just a plain bad idea to expose your A0 unit. If you see your opponent's A0, it is worth focusing alot of assets on killing it. I think there are also subtle effects that happen in addition to the obvious.

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Post #: 5
- 6/26/2003 12:04:31 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Well, we all have seen what happens when we wipe out the AI's HQ unit, right? Massive amounts of suppression, morale goes in the tank, and the AI surrenders the field within a turn or 2.

Now, think of all that happening to YOUR troops, once YOU are lying stone cold dead on the field....

I like to rename my HQ unit commander with my name....makes me a bit more cautious when moving "me" towards the frontlines.:D

Also, you lose the 'orders' that the HQ unit has...which can be a bit of a problem when your FO unit uses all of his and there are still arty jobs to be requested.....

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Post #: 6
try a 'command centre' unit - 6/28/2003 8:56:38 PM   
MOTHER

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Melbourne ,Australia
Status: offline 		Especially in defence the' command tents 'supply the intangables to your troops and from experience are bloody hard to dislodge let alone kill. Let the AO sit nicely in the rear near imporant arty or the like,life will so much be better.:D

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Post #: 7
Command Tents Rock! - 6/28/2003 10:08:09 PM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've found, IME, that the presence of a Command Tent [I]anywhere[/I] on the battlefield tends to improve my troops ability to Rally.

They're also a convenient source of Order Points for continuing artillery barrages while the FOs go looking for new targets. :cool:

The loss of an A0 is usually the protent of the end of the game. Units have a harder time Rallying when the A0 is gone. Do enough damage (kill, kill, kill) and the enemies morale will break. From there on it's all down hill. :cool:

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Post #: 8
- 6/29/2003 12:03:07 AM   
UndercoverNotChickenSalad


Posts: 3990
Joined: 2/19/2002
From: Denial Aisle
Status: offline 		I always name the CO after myself too. I like the RPG aspect it gives. Or maybe I'm just a prima donna. I usually name the vehicle platoon commanders after buddies and see how long they live. Its pretty funny when they're on the lam, and rescuing them just adds to the game.

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Post #: 9
- 6/30/2003 12:20:23 PM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Careful getting cocky when you take out A0. In order for the enemy to surrendur the field, there are (apparently) several different scenarios. One of them is that 2/3 or more of the enemy must be fleeing. I had a game--against the AI no less!--where I held all the VH's. I systematically obliterated all of his units, one or two at a time after devouring his first wave and reserves; we're talking I'm going after his Soviet 50mm's, his AAA MG's the AI always buys plenty of but puts in the rear, etc. For 13 turns I wandered around, trying to find the enemy. Where the F was he?? I would get my * willy meter on with people around a general area, but I just couldn't finish the job.

Turns out when I observed the battlefield after the last turn, there was one Soviet 50mm mortar, I believe it was even a Green unit, hiding in some woods. He never got suppressed beyond the loss of the A0. So... they never gave up.

So don't trust the destruction of the A0 to give you victory. I've had AI forces struggle on and even mount a temporarily successful counterattack after losing their A0! If you look in the sticky thread about Arty Management, you'll see someone speak of "lifting the barrage." Consider this with direct-fire, too. Sometimes giving the enemy a turn or three to regroup a little and come out of their foxholes can drastically increase the effectiveness of your attack. The good commander knows when to attack, and when to abate.

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Post #: 10
- 6/30/2003 12:59:51 PM   
fullmetaljacko

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 6/13/2003
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		AI Hq's are prime targets, when i find one i devert all arty to it and close forces. Recently in '39 GE vs Poles, I had my mg Motorcycle Squad searching for the HQ and i found him, so i took it out and i kid you not the Poles outnumbered me like 3 to 1 squad wise and they were pushing me back slowly but i was killing their men, and on turn 5-6 they surrendered. The tally screen was like 18 men dead to 79 dead, that was the lowest kill battle i've had in a long campaign so far. So i usually try to penetrate the AI forces fast to find that HQ to help my forces out.... oohh sounds kinda dirty. :eek:

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Post #: 11
- 6/30/2003 11:00:09 PM   
Capt Chris

 

Posts: 200
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		A0 hunting! Infiltration is a good way to go if you want to kill the NME HQ. Sounds like a good job for the US Army Rangers! ;)

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Post #: 12
Thoughts on Command unit quality - 6/30/2003 11:11:25 PM   
Vathailos

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 5/13/2003
From: In a van, down by the river.
Status: offline 		Here’s a though about all formation leaders, A0 included. Input appreciated.

When playing the German army through a WWII campaign, your overall troop quality improves consistently until attrition takes its toll about 1944 IIRC. If your A0 unit, or other core formation units are weak in terms of their ability scores vs. their subordinates, I’m typically more daring with their assignments then I would be with a more talented/experienced command unit. If they get eliminated, a new leader is promoted, generally better than the unit you just lost.

I employ the above tactic with the caveat that my A0 will beam into the fray wearing their red shirts only when the victory is close at hand. There have also been times where I’ve z-fired my own units for either failing to defend/follow orders when that failure has cost valuable units lives. Yes, I play the Soviet Union often :p. Only wish I could get my AA units to engage my own air support at times…

Oddly, wasn’t the early (circa 1939) WWII German army officer corps well-stocked with Prussian military elite? And if so, shouldn’t there be a chance for the starting German core force to be led by/contain these experienced leaders?

Thanks in advance for your read, and your responses.

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Post #: 13
Re: Thoughts on Command unit quality - 6/30/2003 11:34:09 PM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vathailos
[B]There have also been times where I’ve z-fired my own units for either failing to defend/follow orders when that failure has cost valuable units lives. Yes, I play the Soviet Union often :p. [/B][/QUOTE]

I've just started a Long-WWII to play between scenario testing. I'm putting SS Infantry in command of every Platoon and Company (except the FJ's--they're independent, though I gave them an SS MG34 and just made it 'GE FJ MG34'--and I can only rename my Armor units), and plan to have them do just such an atrocity if the situation arises. (I may put C&C On to justify this, too.)

I like the Roleplaying aspect of this, and may use it as the skeleton for a tabletop RPG with some buddies. I'm just glad someone else is sick and twisted like me, too. ;)

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Post #: 14
- 7/1/2003 12:11:08 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		SS in command of every platoon? That must have been popular with the Landsers :p

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Post #: 15
- 7/1/2003 2:19:12 AM   
Vathailos

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 5/13/2003
From: In a van, down by the river.
Status: offline 		**raises a camouflaged eyebrow** **cracks a smile**

SS as the command element in each infantry platoon you say? Tempting indeed…

It was only criminal if you lost, and it’s only paranoia if you’re wrong. :D

And yes, infiltration is oh so much fun!

EDIT

*hangs head in shame* Yes, the perils of a slow, hiccuping ISP :(

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Post #: 16
hehe - 7/1/2003 6:26:54 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Vathailos, you stutter! :cool:

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Post #: 17
- 7/2/2003 2:14:16 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Playing the Soviet Union, I try to take some of their 208mm guns almost every battle. I've yet to find a time when they don't come in useful for at least one barage.

I've had a point where I had a mixed-force, some conscripts where fighting a british rifle company in a city block. Well, my Conscripts started falling back through the city, right into where I had left a 208mm Barage before, and had forgotten about.

Well, after the 208mm Barage that turn, my conscripts where hastily pinned down and ready to defend their assigned area until my Guards Mechanized Reserve arrived from the rear.

They Conscript platoon lost 3 men from the barage, which they were only on the edge of.

Those same conscripts ended up getting pouned by a different barage later on after falling back from their positions, took 10% casualities or more.

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Post #: 18
- 7/3/2003 2:49:16 AM   
UndercoverNotChickenSalad


Posts: 3990
Joined: 2/19/2002
From: Denial Aisle
Status: offline 		Being HQ is cool travelling around the map w/ a huge entourage. lol.

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Post #: 19
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