Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The bane of the Allied player getting froggy with the carriers usually leads to sudden sadness syndrome (SSS). Does this trigger a few new Essex class reinforcements?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The bane of the Allied player getting froggy with the carriers usually leads to sudden sadness syndrome (SSS). Does this trigger a few new Essex class reinforcements?

No. That is in WITP, in AE this option exist, but is not activated for any vanilla scenario.

Only the landing craft (barges) are replaced in this game, because they are way too many for the ship slots available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The bane of the Allied player getting froggy with the carriers usually leads to sudden sadness syndrome (SSS). Does this trigger a few new Essex class reinforcements?

No. That is in WITP, in AE this option exist, but is not activated for any vanilla scenario.

Only the landing craft (barges) are replaced in this game, because they are way too many for the ship slots available.

Unless it was changed in one of the update patches, section 16.1.1 of the manual says any US CV or US/Australian CA lost before 1944 will be replaced 450 days later. CVs are replaced by an Essex class; the CAs are replaced by a random Cleveland or Baltimore class ship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The bane of the Allied player getting froggy with the carriers usually leads to sudden sadness syndrome (SSS). Does this trigger a few new Essex class reinforcements?

No. That is in WITP, in AE this option exist, but is not activated for any vanilla scenario.

Only the landing craft (barges) are replaced in this game, because they are way too many for the ship slots available.

Unless it was changed in one of the update patches, section 16.1.1 of the manual says any US CV or US/Australian CA lost before 1944 will be replaced 450 days later. CVs are replaced by an Essex class; the CAs are replaced by a random Cleveland or Baltimore class ship.

I am fairly sure I read a post by Alfred about that. But I cannot find it of course. :(

EDIT: Now that I said it, here it is (post 16):
Ship Replacements

quote:

Alfred:
As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1. Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor. There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios. A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2. Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria. It is not possible to turn off this feature. A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3. Only the following ship types will respawn:


USN CV respawns to USN CV

USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser

RAN CA respawns to USN CA

IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

...

Since the Manual Section 16.1.1 uses the word "replace" rather than respawn, and the manual applied to the official scenarios as released, I presume it still applies to official grand campaign scenarios in slots 1-25. The shorter scenarios don't count since none of them last 450 days for a replacement to arrive.
It looks like the replacement will carry the original ship name (with no II behind it) and no chance to change the name because it is a direct replacement of a lost ship and there is no confusion of duplicate with ships that were not lost. The only thing that changes is the ship Class (Essex for Yorktown or Lexington class. Baltimore or Cleveland for any of the US/Australian CA classes).

It still remains that subsequent patches to the official games in slots 1-25 could have eliminated the replacement feature, but Alfred's comments were made in 2018 so I do not think the replacement process described in the manual entry was eliminated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1. Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor. There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios. A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2. Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria. It is not possible to turn off this feature. A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3. Only the following ship types will respawn:

• USN CV respawns to USN CV
  
• USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  
• RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  
• IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4. The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk. They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5. Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk. These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List. The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.


Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "xxxxII" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship. These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship. There are therefore destroyers and submarines in the game which have the "xxxxII" name. These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game. They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List. Once they arrive on map they will retain their "xxxxII" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs. It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players. The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

...

Since the Manual Section 16.1.1 uses the word "replace" rather than respawn, and the manual applied to the official scenarios as released, I presume it still applies to official grand campaign scenarios in slots 1-25. The shorter scenarios don't count since none of them last 450 days for a replacement to arrive.
It looks like the replacement will carry the original ship name (with no II behind it) and no chance to change the name because it is a direct replacement of a lost ship and there is no confusion of duplicate with ships that were not lost. The only thing that changes is the ship Class (Essex for Yorktown or Lexington class. Baltimore or Cleveland for any of the US/Australian CA classes).

It still remains that subsequent patches to the official games in slots 1-25 could have eliminated the replacement feature, but Alfred's comments were made in 2018 so I do not think the replacement process described in the manual entry was eliminated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1. Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor. There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios. A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2. Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria. It is not possible to turn off this feature. A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3. Only the following ship types will respawn:

• USN CV respawns to USN CV
  
• USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  
• RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  
• IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4. The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk. They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5. Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk. These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List. The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.


Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "xxxxII" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship. These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship. There are therefore destroyers and submarines in the game which have the "xxxxII" name. These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game. They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List. Once they arrive on map they will retain their "xxxxII" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs. It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players. The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred

Replace is only for barges. Respawn is for US CV/CA/CL, RAN CA and Japanese SSX. Another post in the thread I linked shows that it is disabled for all starting scenarios.

Between the manual and Alfred, I think Alfred wins. Also I haven't read, in any late war AAR, anything about respawning ships, and no one counts barges.

1 barge, 2 barges, 3 barges, ...

"Zen and the art of motorcycle" maintenance has a long discussion about how manuals are written - "Author goes in the factory, then the manager calls the least useful guy around to help the writer". I do not know if that applies to the WITPAE manual, but the "respawn" and "replace" words have similar spelling and meaning in this context. They might have been mistyped.

Fighting with terminology is always a lost fight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

...

Since the Manual Section 16.1.1 uses the word "replace" rather than respawn, and the manual applied to the official scenarios as released, I presume it still applies to official grand campaign scenarios in slots 1-25. The shorter scenarios don't count since none of them last 450 days for a replacement to arrive.
It looks like the replacement will carry the original ship name (with no II behind it) and no chance to change the name because it is a direct replacement of a lost ship and there is no confusion of duplicate with ships that were not lost. The only thing that changes is the ship Class (Essex for Yorktown or Lexington class. Baltimore or Cleveland for any of the US/Australian CA classes).

It still remains that subsequent patches to the official games in slots 1-25 could have eliminated the replacement feature, but Alfred's comments were made in 2018 so I do not think the replacement process described in the manual entry was eliminated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1. Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor. There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios. A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2. Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria. It is not possible to turn off this feature. A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3. Only the following ship types will respawn:

• USN CV respawns to USN CV
  
• USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  
• RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  
• IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4. The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk. They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5. Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk. These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List. The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.


Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "xxxxII" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship. These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship. There are therefore destroyers and submarines in the game which have the "xxxxII" name. These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game. They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List. Once they arrive on map they will retain their "xxxxII" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs. It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players. The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred

Replace is only for barges. Respawn is for US CV/CA/CL, RAN CA and Japanese SSX. Another post in the thread I linked shows that it is disabled for all starting scenarios.

Between the manual and Alfred, I think Alfred wins. Also I haven't read, in any late war AAR, anything about respawning ships, and no one counts barges.

1 barge, 2 barges, 3 barges, ...

"Zen and the art of motorcycle" maintenance has a long discussion about how manuals are written - "Author goes in the factory, then the manager calls the least useful guy around to help the writer". I do not know if that applies to the WITPAE manual, but the "respawn" and "replace" words have similar spelling and meaning in this context. They might have been mistyped.

Fighting with terminology is always a lost fight.

Goes to show that Alfred's reply is ambiguous. He often seems to give strong hints but expects you to read all the pertinent data and figure out the details.
There is nothing in Alfred's post that says the manual section has been superseded.
The second part of his point 1 and all of point 2 which I quoted from his post says the official scenarios recognize replacement, which, according to the manual, includes CVs and CAs.
Respawning is a separate process that is not in the official scenarios but can be activated in the unofficial scenarios. His points 3,4 and 5 appear to refer to the unofficial scenario situation which includes direct replacement of barges because of the issue with filling endless database slots with unique barges or LCTs.

Now if someone can show that the manual section is no longer applicable by patch notes or by the two sunk CVs not reappearing in the queue for arriving ships, I could interpret Alfred's comments differently.