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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/15/2019 1:00:17 PM

Rasputitsa

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I think that when you load a saved game, whilst a game is already running, instead of fresh from the start menu, you get the weather map (clear, or muddy) which applied to the originally running game, rather than from the newly loaded save file.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/15/2019 1:09:06 PM

Rasputitsa

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When you have a unit attached to the army commander (e.g. NAPOLEON, new feature from v 3.05) the orders delay becomes much reduced, even when the actual distance is very great.

Here NAPOLEON is at ULM, whilst 'Marulaz' is attached to NAPOLEON, but is at INGOLSTADT. The orders delay is not taking that distance into account with an orders travel time of only 2 hours :

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/15/2019 1:15:20 PM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/15/2019 2:19:39 PM

Rasputitsa

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Not sure completely how the game handles replacements, the manual covers some of it, but how about types of replacement. PFE restricts the allocation of replacements, with only certain allocations for certain types, or nationality of unit.

I am not sure whether CotD already does this, but should there be an allocation for infantry, cavalry, artillery, or elite units.

You are not going to find many long service, elite, Imperial Guardsmen, as most replacements are likely to be barely trained new recruits and replacement artillery, or trained cavalryman would be limited.

So should there be some limitation on how different types of replacements are allocated, or made available, as operates in PFE.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/15/2019 2:20:46 PM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/15/2019 7:32:21 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

When you have a unit attached to the army commander (e.g. NAPOLEON, new feature from v 3.05) the orders delay becomes much reduced, even when the actual distance is very great.

Here NAPOLEON is at ULM, whilst 'Marulaz' is attached to NAPOLEON, but is at INGOLSTADT. The orders delay is not taking that distance into account with an orders travel time of only 2 hours :

The normal message sequence is that the order goes from the army commander to the corps commander, then the corps commander sends the order on to each unit under command. There are then two elements in the orders delay, but when the unit is attached direct to the army commander, the corps commander delay is missing, so there seems to be only one delay element and this is not taking into account the actual distance.

Then I get this (image below), which is more accurate, so I maybe not using appropriate game saves, losing track of which side is AI. I still think there is something amiss with orders delay and units attached to the army commander. I need to play on and get some more consistent information to see what is happening.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/16/2019 9:40:28 PM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/15/2019 7:57:37 PM

Biondo

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Can't say nothing else!

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 6:30:03 AM

FrankHunter

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Q.Can I suggest a change of wording in the 'Supply System' control panel text
A.Done

Q. but can something also be done about the 'Battle Completed' battle screen data, save reports
A. Given how that works I can�t see being able to do much there but I�ll look at it.

Q. Division by zero error involving Kienmayer
A. That�s a system error and it should never happen. If it happens again after this next update I will need a saved game to find it. Is it happening within the orders phase?

Q. can the Pop-Up panels be made to mouse-slide, or the map remain movable, so that the map can be reviewed while the Pop-Up is on-screen. Can turn resolution be continued whilst the the Pop-Ups are stored to one side to be refereed to later and progressively cancelled as the player regains control to start the next turn.

A. Those are modal dialog boxes and they require exiting before play can resume. I could put them in a modeless dialog which could be moved behind the screen and which would allow the map to be scrolled and then have a way of moving it back to the front but that could get messy. I actually prefer the existing method as I want to be sure they�re read.

Q. The game only seems to be using the WeatherRainBackg.bmp file, as a message background, regardless of the weather.
A. Fixed

Q. When there has been a battle in a hex then the hex is highlighted by the cursor, but whilst the cursor is in place the hex can be frozen during the following turn and you cannot select any of the units in that hex.
A. Fixed, just have to click once on the battle hex indicator and then it�ll return to normal.

Q. I think that when you load a saved game, whilst a game is already running, instead of fresh from the start menu, you get the weather map (clear, or muddy) which applied to the originally running game, rather than from the newly loaded save file.
A. Fixed

Q. When you have a unit attached to the army commander (e.g. NAPOLEON, new feature from v 3.05) the orders delay becomes much reduced, even when the actual distance is very great.

A. Fixed. They use the exact same procedure, what happened there was a bug in the print statement if an estimate went over 24 hours. So in your example, travel time should have said 1 day and 2 hours. For the engineer its under 24 hours so no bug. Regardless of the print statement it still would have taken a messenger 26 hours, not 2 to get to the first unit.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 12:16:10 PM

Rasputitsa

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Thanks Frank for the prompt reply, now the inevitable question, when might v3.06 be ready.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 12:40:08 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

Q. Division by zero error involving Kienmayer
A. That�s a system error and it should never happen. If it happens again after this next update I will need a saved game to find it. Is it happening within the orders phase?

This happened some time ago so memory is weak, but the screen shot has the KIENMAYER orders box open, so it must have happened during the orders phase. I think it occurred when the corps was close to destruction and there were few, or no divisions left under command.

I think it happened previously when KOLOWRAT was trapped and being destroyed with the corps commander possibility left on the map alone.

I have just transferred all the units out of a corps, as a test to see what would happen to a corps commander without divisions. When the last unit is transferred the corps commander disappears, is no longer on the map, or in the 'Find' units list, which is good to know. Something to avoid doing in the game.

However, the 'Division by Zero' message did not appear.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 1:06:47 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

Q. When you have a unit attached to the army commander (e.g. NAPOLEON, new feature from v 3.05) the orders delay becomes much reduced, even when the actual distance is very great.

A. Fixed. They use the exact same procedure, what happened there was a bug in the print statement if an estimate went over 24 hours. So in your example, travel time should have said 1 day and 2 hours. For the engineer its under 24 hours so no bug. Regardless of the print statement it still would have taken a messenger 26 hours, not 2 to get to the first unit.

Thanks, just finished reading about the Waterloo Campaign with a great deal of detail about the background situation, specifically the passing of messages and orders. Much angst about who said what and when and why orders did not arrive in time, but interesting that the average speed of messengers was about 2 mph, sometimes slower.

Waterloo: The Campaign of 1815 - Two Volumes - John Hussey, Kindle - Two volumes seems excessive, but it covers the whole campaign from Napoleon's return to France, up until the Allies entry into Paris, in considerable detail using multi-national archives. It does make more sense of how CotD functions, especially the constant uncertainty.

It's not like Hollywood with everyone galloping about, horses don't last long that way, it mostly happens at a walk. Very occasionally an senior aide, who was well mounted, could maintain a faster pace over shorter distances.

The game matches the actual events of the era very well, despite how it may look to modern eyes.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/16/2019 1:52:32 PM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 3:25:54 PM

FrankHunter

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" but interesting that the average speed of messengers was about 2 mph, sometimes slower."

In the game its roughly one hex per hour, which is about 5.6mi/9km, perhaps I need to slow it down :) It was a long time ago but I believe that number was based on Petre when he was writing about the distance from when Napoleon was writing his orders on the way to the Danube front in 1809.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 3:48:13 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

" but interesting that the average speed of messengers was about 2 mph, sometimes slower."

In the game its roughly one hex per hour, which is about 5.6mi/9km, perhaps I need to slow it down :) It was a long time ago but I believe that number was based on Petre when he was writing about the distance from when Napoleon was writing his orders on the way to the Danube front in 1809.

Not proposing any change, just noting how the friction of war has these effects.

During the Waterloo Campaign the French, in particular, had problems getting good quality horses, then there was the problem of finding the recipient of a message within a multi-national army (Allies), who had not necessarily fought together before. Many of the Allied units had previously fought for Napoleon and were of uncertain allegiance and many French units were suffering the loses of a long war, with many of the better quality officers gone and others distrustful of each other.

It wasn't like the 'old days', where the Grand Armee, of earlier campaigns, was a much more homogeneous unit, as was the old British Peninsular army, both were more efficient forces in 1809.

It's more that anyone doubting the orders delay effects, thinking that it could be too excessive, all the above shows that historically it could be worse.

As always, I think you are on target

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/21/2019 10:41:39 AM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 3:58:57 PM

Franciscus

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Just to say that it is a pleasure to see Frank Hunter again in these forums, to congratulate him for his excellent games and thank him for working in a new patch for the gem that is CotD !

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 6:56:34 PM

FrankHunter

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Rasputitsa, I had considered modifying the speed of messengers based on the efficiency of the army HQ. At the corps level for example, when a messenger reaches Davout in 1809 he will react on that order faster than if it was Jellacic that was receiving an order. But the speed of the order to arrive in the first place is the same. That could be changed. In 1805 for example, Napoleon's HQ is better than Mack's in every respect. I could modify messengers under Mack's army to move slower to represent greater friction? The Austrians are already facing a tougher challenge vis a vis the French, however, so I didn't.

Thank you Franciscus!

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Post #: 43

RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 8:49:49 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Rasputitsa, I had considered modifying the speed of messengers based on the efficiency of the army HQ. At the corps level for example, when a messenger reaches Davout in 1809 he will react on that order faster than if it was Jellacic that was receiving an order. But the speed of the order to arrive in the first place is the same. That could be changed. In 1805 for example, Napoleon's HQ is better than Mack's in every respect. I could modify messengers under Mack's army to move slower to represent greater friction? The Austrians are already facing a tougher challenge vis a vis the French, however, so I didn't.

It's the continual problem of gaming, historical balance against playability, nobody wants to play a constant losing hand.

Playing as Napoleon is pretty safe, you are a unlikely to lose and what's the point of playing Coalition, if you always get hammered.

The enormous value in CotD is historical reality, but it has to be given some balance to make it playable. I am getting balance and the excitement of playing Napoleon, still with a very capable army, by removing some of the French corps to achieve balance, but not changing the historical capabilities of what is left. Which brings us to the prospect of a game editor, but only you can know your workload and then there is the hope for more campaigns.

I am not using 'To the guns' for the Coalition, as commanders were not expected to use initiative and were too frightened to do so, they would rather lose a battle than be blamed for not following orders.

In the game the player takes command and should not be penalised into suffering all the same command limitations of the historical figures you replace. The whole point is to see if you can do it better and this is where CotD scores so highly. Most games allow a huge dose of hindsight and God like control of the battlefield, whereas CotD has that priceless uncertainty, command delay and realistic FOW, which means that you are working with the some of the same limitations as the historical commanders, but can you organise command and control better than they could ?

The short answer to your question is yes and no, it would be good to have a completely historical game with all the historical delays, but with the option to improve command and control, which is what Charles was trying to do before he was thrown into a war that he didn't want.

It could be by editor, but that could be some way off, or is it possible to have variable settings, which can be chosen at the start of a scenario ?

'Historical' delay setting and 'Successful army reforms' delay setting.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/16/2019 9:29:50 PM

Rasputitsa

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Just as a side issue, at Ulm 1805, Mack was frozen by the inability to make the big decisions, even though he had been given a letter by the Austrian Emperor giving him full executive command, he found it difficult, effectively impossible, to overrule his royal master Archduke Ferdinand.

What of Napoleon, he was convinced that Mack was retreating towards Augsburg, which is what any sane Austrian commander would be doing, it was what Napoleon would be doing in Mack's place. Practically the whole French army was thrown onto the South bank of the Danube chasing towards Augsburg, with Napoleon telling Ney to expect only 5000 Austrians to be left in Ulm, How wrong was he, but is was not to be the only error.

In 1806 Napoleon was convinced that he was confronting the main Prussian army at Jena, when in reality Davout was single-handily beating the principal Prussian army at Auerstadt, wrong again,

In 1809 Napoleon was convinced that Charles was escaping Eastwards the way he had come, whilst Davout was desperately trying to convince the Emperor that the Austrians were actually pushing past him and escaping over the Danube, through Regensburg (Ratisbon), wrong again.

Then there was Russia �...

The point is that although people might complain about the AI, it doesn't do any worse than mistakes like these and I find myself doing similar miscalculations in the uncertainty and FOW which CotD presents.

The conditions at the time sometimes confused the greatest strategist of the age, perhaps the greatest of all time and that is just what CotD does, it puts you right there.

Thanks Frank.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 7/16/2019 9:33:33 PM >

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 2:16:27 AM

FrankHunter

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Okay, the unit graphics in the battle display are no longer hard-coded.

Are there any display resolutions that anyone needs that aren't available in the game?

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 2:19:42 AM

FrankHunter

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These are the current supported resolutions

1920 by 1080
1680 by 1050
1600 by 900
1440 by 900
1366 by 768
1280 by 1024
1280 by 800
1024 by 768
1600 by 1200
1920 by 1440
1920 by 1200
2560 by 1600
2560 by 1440

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 2:38:51 AM

FrankHunter

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I was looking into report movement and noticed a discrepancy between actual and projected travel time for messengers. Its not 1 hex per hour, but that's what the projection is based on, its actually 2 hexes per 3 hours but its not set in stone, it can sometimes be faster or slower, but 2 hexes per 3 hours would be the average. I've fixed the projection.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 2:41:34 AM

FrankHunter

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Last thing on the list seems to be miniatures. Currently in a solitaire game as the Austrian there's no way to have it go to miniatures.

Is there any demand for this? Would there be any demand for the game outputting the forces involved in the format of particular rules like Volley & Bayonet, Grande Armee, Age of Eagles etc?

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 5:36:59 AM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

I was looking into report movement and noticed a discrepancy between actual and projected travel time for messengers. Its not 1 hex per hour, but that's what the projection is based on, its actually 2 hexes per 3 hours but its not set in stone, it can sometimes be faster or slower, but 2 hexes per 3 hours would be the average. I've fixed the projection.

The fact that it is variable is good and the ultimate travel times are always going to be a compromise between absolute historical accuracy (but how do you measure that) and playability, but it 'feels' about right with these figures.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 5:59:14 AM

Biondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Last thing on the list seems to be miniatures. Currently in a solitaire game as the Austrian there's no way to have it go to miniatures.

Is there any demand for this? Would there be any demand for the game outputting the forces involved in the format of particular rules like Volley & Bayonet, Grande Armee, Age of Eagles etc?

It would be great if the game output the forces in order to play tactical phase with PC game Scourge of War Waterloo; I don't know if this is possible and how much work it requires but this is my dream for sooo many years.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 6:21:20 AM

Rasputitsa

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Is there any resolution for this text error, which can happen after replacements have been added to a unit :

Attachment (1)

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 6:32:55 AM

FrankHunter

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What happened there exactly?

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 7:37:50 AM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

What happened there exactly?

The text error seems to appear in the 'view units' panel after allocating replacements, I have game saves for before and after. Will attach to email.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/17/2019 7:59:50 AM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

What happened there exactly?

Also having problems trying to get these units 'reattached', not sure if it is connected.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/18/2019 12:38:08 AM

pzgndr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter
I was looking into report movement and noticed a discrepancy between actual and projected travel time for messengers. Its not 1 hex per hour, but that's what the projection is based on, its actually 2 hexes per 3 hours but its not set in stone, it can sometimes be faster or slower, but 2 hexes per 3 hours would be the average. I've fixed the projection.

Maybe consider a slightly faster [average] time for the handicap difficulty setting, to favor either France or Coalition as applicable?

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/18/2019 2:50:39 AM

rjantzi

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If it's not too late, here's one more display resolution request.

2736 x 1824

It's for a MS Surface.

Thank you.

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/18/2019 4:22:39 AM

FrankHunter

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rjantzi, I will add that one

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RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/18/2019 11:09:16 AM

ulisin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

Just to say that it is a pleasure to see Frank Hunter again in these forums, to congratulate him for his excellent games and thank him for working in a new patch for the gem that is CotD !

quote:

Just to say that it is a pleasure to see Frank Hunter again in these forums, to congratulate him for his excellent games and thank him for working in a new patch for the gem that is CotD !

+1!!!

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Post #: 59

RE: Version 3.06 under way - 7/18/2019 2:01:31 PM

zgrant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Last thing on the list seems to be miniatures. Currently in a solitaire game as the Austrian there's no way to have it go to miniatures.

Is there any demand for this? Would there be any demand for the game outputting the forces involved in the format of particular rules like Volley & Bayonet, Grande Armee, Age of Eagles etc?

Hello Frank!

If you can please include using miniatures, in any capacity, that would be great. Sam Mustafa created a new Napoleonic rule set called Bl�cher, which is a fantastic. If you are not familiar with it, I can send you the info you might need to include it.

Thank you for continuing to support your game with this latest update.

~Z

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