RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Council room

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/7/2019 6:53:12 PM

rustysi

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Oh, and while I'm here...

You guys are playing 'no holds barred' correct?

Then the easiest way to win IMHO, is to get everything you can possibly free up in Manchukuo and overrun China. From there its on to Burma and India. Just remember to 'buy out' some units from the area to defend your northern areas after China is done.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 2:45:49 AM

RangerJoe

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If it is no holds barred, while you have the invasion bonus it does not hurt to invade hexes with no base. Doing that with armor on a grey road hex in Java could get you a base or two fast and you can cut the defense in half. Once the ABDA forces vacate the Singapore area, you can also Fast Transport a unit to cut the western rail line in Malaya. You have to route around Singapore to escape its defenses.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 3:06:20 AM

jdsrae

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I�ve finished General Defence Army orders and Kwantung Army orders, so it�s worth recounting this:

�...on September 5, 1941, on the verge of the war against the United States and Great Britain, GEN Sugiyama was severely berated by Emperor Hirohito for having earlier predicted in 1937 that Japanese invasion of China would be completed within three months, and challenged over his confidence in a quick victory over the Western powers.�

Stung into action by the Emperor�s rebuke, GEN Sugiyama has proposed a large scale transfer of front line Infanty divisions, with supporting artillery, armour and AA assets from Kwantung Army to the CEA. Probably no surprise in this for the allies. The question for Japan is, will the allies try to send help to China?
HQ 20th Army will be temporarily attached to North China Area Army. Supporting arms will be spread across the front apart from the armour, which will form the tip of the spear.
All Kwantung Army engineer units are moving to Fusan. The officers will be using their time on the train trying to remember everything about port construction that they�ve forgotten since university.

China Expeditionary Army orders are being drafted now. The China front has been active for far too long and with war coming in the south it needs to be concluded quickly. The two strategic objectives are the vast quantities of Resources and the opportunity to redeploy front line CEA units to stage 2 operations.

The choice for that will be made later. Continue the advance overland into India or the Soviet Far East, or garrison the borders?
Three separate teams within the IJA General Staff ops branch have until late 1942 to develop those plans before I decide.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 9/8/2019 3:08:15 AM >

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 3:17:58 AM

jdsrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Oh, and while I'm here...

You guys are playing 'no holds barred' correct?

Correct, the rules are there are no rules.
I�m going to have to come up with a tactic to try and counter B24s at 1000� aren�t I?!

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 4:06:15 AM

RangerJoe

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Capturing bomber bases works pretty well.

Push the Chinese units aside but don't destroy them if you don't have to. Capture all HI, LI, and resources, you don't have to capture a base without those unless it is on your supply route. Capture Chungking and the other resurrection city, then kill the Chinese units. Put LRCAP over every base that you can where he could be flying in supply from India. Find a weak base on the Burma Road and drop in paratroopers to capture it to stop those supplies. Where he can't fly CAP, bomb every airfield to destroy supplies.

Don't be suprised if he evacuates a lot of Chinese units to India, I would.

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Post #: 35

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 12:58:37 PM

Hanzberger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Capturing bomber bases works pretty well.

Push the Chinese units aside but don't destroy them if you don't have to. Capture all HI, LI, and resources, you don't have to capture a base without those unless it is on your supply route. Capture Chungking and the other resurrection city, then kill the Chinese units. Put LRCAP over every base that you can where he could be flying in supply from India. Find a weak base on the Burma Road and drop in paratroopers to capture it to stop those supplies. Where he can't fly CAP, bomb every airfield to destroy supplies.

Don't be suprised if he evacuates a lot of Chinese units to India, I would.

Operation 'Chinese snow plow'

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/8/2019 8:47:00 PM

jdsrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Capturing bomber bases works pretty well.

Push the Chinese units aside but don't destroy them if you don't have to. Capture all HI, LI, and resources, you don't have to capture a base without those unless it is on your supply route. Capture Chungking and the other resurrection city, then kill the Chinese units. Put LRCAP over every base that you can where he could be flying in supply from India. Find a weak base on the Burma Road and drop in paratroopers to capture it to stop those supplies. Where he can't fly CAP, bomb every airfield to destroy supplies.

Don't be suprised if he evacuates a lot of Chinese units to India, I would.

Operation 'Chinese snow plow'

That�s the plan, but I have hired a few bulldozers. Not much snow left in these parts as Spring has sprung!
I didn�t do this in my last AI game, practicing my surround and destroy tactics instead.
When I got to Chungking the AI had 150+ units and 800k+ troops waiting for me...
I do want to try and clear the rear areas in China to create a front, but I will try to leave escape routes in this game.

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Post #: 37

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 9:03:01 PM

jdsrae

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Army orders are all done with Navy orders barely started before the clock struck tomorrow...
I�ve started trying to optimise the magic move task forces.
The first few changes are to swap the Bns that magic move onto already captured Thai coast to take Miri, Brunei, Beafourt instead. They should get in and out before Houston or Boise can interfere.
I�ve also split KB with the plan that 4xCV+++ provide air cover to Singapore/Malaya ops and 2xCV+++ join the CVL to provide air cover to Luzon ops.
There are two options for the split, based on speed or armour? I think I�ll split based on armour with the heavily armoured force to make the sweep through the Java Sea submarine gauntlet. I had a Dutch sub hit Kaga with 1 torpedo in my last game vs AI and it barely scratched the paint.

After the initial landings are safe, the plan is for all CV to sweep the Java and Celebes Seas and recombine to cover ops in the SEAF / 4F areas.
Hopefully to find some USN capital ships coming west, or at least cover against that.
I need to check where KB can rearm after that sweep, other than going back to CRB.

I will reorganise what I can of the rest of the fleet for turn one, with about 60:40 split of task forces between SWAF and SAF.

I�ve also been making a list of all the things I need to spend PP on but haven�t spent any yet. I want to prioritise what I can get for the 500 points.
146th Infantry Regt from 16th Army so I can reform 55th Division is high on the list. So too will be appointing the best task force Admirals and replacing any poor air group leaders.
I don�t think I�ll have enough PP left for another land combat unit, but 90th Infantry Regt is an elite unit that would be wasted sitting in Korea for too long, even though it�s 100% prep for Miri is wasted. No specific plan for it just yet, it might just move to China for free.
Guards Mixed Brigade has been issued orders for Midway, but I might leave that as a deception plan and hope his sigint finds it. If he holds back to cover against it that would suit me without launching the op. I�ve got a few other deception preps that are a long shot, but his sigint might spot them and make him pause.

I�ll try and get the turn to him late this week.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 9:46:04 PM

RangerJoe

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Have ships loaded with units prepped for a base, heading to that base but have a way point at or near the real destination. A bunch of land units heading for Hawaii . . . ?

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Post #: 39

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 10:20:28 PM

rustysi

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quote:

The question for Japan is, will the allies try to send help to China?

His forces won't be that good. Besides you could block all/most with ops you may still do in Burma. In addition to that its not too difficult to block things coming in from western China's one road. Not to mention blocking the escape route for Chinese units.

quote:

or the Soviet Far East,

An unnecessary addition of a 'new opponent'.

quote:

I�m going to have to come up with a tactic to try and counter B24s at 1000� aren�t I?!

Don't forget the B-17's.

Easy enough to do in the early stages due to his low numbers and generally poor pilots. Also he'll have few forward bases to operate from. Your first fighter that can handle these machines is the Nick, then the TojoIIc.

As for your CV's just keep some on low CAP, and get the M5 ASAP. The M2/3 line is just too weakly constructed to handle the 4E's. Best done through the Rufe line.

quote:

Push the Chinese units aside but don't destroy them if you don't have to.

Destroy everyone you can. Keeps them form 'evacuating' and gets you points. You should be able to easily overrun any defense he puts up with the added Manchukuo troops.

quote:

Don't be suprised if he evacuates a lot of Chinese units to India, I would.

I think with a strong push into central/western China most of this could be prevented.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 10:24:31 PM

rustysi

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quote:

I had a Dutch sub hit Kaga with 1 torpedo in my last game vs AI and it barely scratched the paint.

Don't get cocky. Even though the Dutch torps are less effective, secondary sources of damage could be devastating. Can you say floating gas station?

Oh wait. Is that petrol with you guys too?

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 10:30:13 PM

rustysi

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quote:

146th Infantry Regt from 16th Army so I can reform 55th Division is high on the list.

There's no real urgency with doing this one early in the game. The devs have said that if all elements of a division are operating from the same hex the results should be almost identical to a recombined division. IIRC he said within 2%.

quote:

but 90th Infantry Regt is an elite unit that would be wasted sitting in Korea for too long

My second choice after the Guards brigade.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/9/2019 10:39:54 PM

rustysi

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Oh, and while I'm here, there're two other regiments about whose third is somewhere off in the SRA, and whose additional components don't arrive for some time (30th ID[?]). I usually use these to aid my eastern forces as well. Just make sure you 'buy' them out to the cheapest way to recombine the division when all components are present. That is of course if you wish to recombine. IIRC these too are located somewhere in Korea.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/10/2019 12:38:33 AM

RangerJoe

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I disagree about destroying the Chinese units right away. Render them incapable of action, surround them, but don't kill them until you have captured Chungking and the other replacement city. You don't want them coming back even at 1/3 infantry strength and then have to try and kill them in heavy urban with its 4 times defensive bonus.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/10/2019 12:59:20 AM

jdsrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Oh, and while I'm here, there're two other regiments about whose third is somewhere off in the SRA, and whose additional components don't arrive for some time (30th ID[?]). I usually use these to aid my eastern forces as well. Just make sure you 'buy' them out to the cheapest way to recombine the division when all components are present. That is of course if you wish to recombine. IIRC these too are located somewhere in Korea.

These 2 regts are in central China but are lower down my list to buy out as the other components arrive about mid 43.
They will help clear rear areas for about a year and form as a Division before moving out.
I use an excel spreadsheet with every unit in it to organise myself before issuing orders in game.
First turn is a beast, but in a month or so of game time I should be able to enter orders within an hour.

I can�t buy out 52,53,54 Divisions for a while so I might prep them for a deception target somewhere believable like Colombo, Perth or Alaska in the hope that allied sigint spots that too.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 12:15:23 AM

rustysi

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quote:

and the other replacement city.

Is there one? If so, anyone know which one?

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 1:11:57 AM

RangerJoe

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Chengtu, the other built up city in the central plains in China. Right next to the mountains.

This thread explains the fun of attacking a built up city:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4678087&mpage=2�

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 2:00:06 AM

jdsrae

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I finished IJN land unit orders last night and about half the reshuffle of starting task forces.
I will continue tonight and try to finish creation of all the day 2+ follow up invasion task forces to start them loading.
Current plan is for three prong assaults on Malaya and Luzon, supported by a few day 1 landings Sarawak / NW Borneo.

I�m undecided on Mersing, do I go all in on day 1 at the risk of losing a few ships or hold back a few days until land based air cover can fly from Kota Bahru and Kuantan, and I can better organised surface forces? The problem is if I wait the allies could concentrate too.

Current setup is a day 1 Mersing assault, with plenty of surface cover to counter Force Z. LRCap still to be set but it could be low level KB Zeros or I will see if land based Zeros have the legs, main threat I see are the low and slow UK torpedo bombers.

Looking at the Admirals and Captains again, quite a few are on my list to replace but I cant afford to do them all now.
Some CV Captains in particular have awful naval skills, so I assume they are a danger to themselves and other ships around them...

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 7:19:26 AM

jdsrae

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7 Dec 41 Orders
Minister of War
� Manpower � turned off repairs. A large chunk of the 30k that starts will be spent on industry expansion, with more on day 2.
� Heavy Industry � turned off repairs. The HI start pool will cover my planned industry expansion
� Light industry � turned off repairs.
� Refineries � turned off repairs
� Oil wells � turned off repairs
� Resources production � turned off repairs
� Armament factories � turned off repairs. Swapped 180 to vehicle factories to leave 440. I haven�t tested this vs the AI beyond 1942 so I will need to watch this pool.
� Vehicle factories � expand all that start to size 40, plus 180 from armaments for 420 total vehicle factories. This is based on me running short of vehicles in mid-1942 in my last game vs the AI when the IJA Armoured Divisions arrived. I still want to upgrade tanks as new models arrive but I will try to use less Motorised Support squad replacements.
� Engines � setup as many factories as Supply allows. Finish next turn.
� Aircraft � setup as many factories as Supply allows. I have slightly reduced my production of Zeros and Oscars from my most recent game vs the AI, but I will be happy for a bit of over-production of these models early to try and relegate Claudes and Nates to training duty asap. With the US Pacific Fleet likely to remain intact by 8 Dec, I might need decent numbers of these planes to counter possible aggressive allied moves in the opening months.
� Aircraft Research � setup as many factories as Supply at each base allows.
� Naval Shipyards � increased by 16 to 1400. Still to do: adjust shipbuilding
� Merchant Shipyards � mothball 27 to leave 780 operating. Still to do: adjust shipbuilding
� Repair Shipyards � Tokyo expanded to 50 for future CS to CVL conversions before I forget to do it.
� Industry supply availability � set to 7k+ in each city that needs it so about 20k pools at each one until industry is repaired, being double the 10k required. Set Maebashi & Gifu to 10k+ as they have more factories to expand on turn 2. Once industry expansion has finished at each city I will remove the toggle. To find the bases quickly, in the industry screen I filtered on Arms/Vehs/Eng/Air/RDAir/SYs and sorted by base. Clicking on the base name brings up the industry screen to make the supply toggle, and closing it takes you back to the industry summary page to go to the next base.
� Oil stockpiles � Capture more sources and get it home. Convoy task force organisation will be summarised under IJN Logistics Fleet operations later.
� Resources stockpiles � Start moving the large starting stockpiles in Hokkaido, China, Manchukuo and Korea. More sources will be captured in time.
� Fuel stockpiles � Capture more sources and get it home for industry, leaving some in Area Fleet locations for local use. After about April 1942 the priority for fuel usage will be #1 Industry, #2 Convoy ops to supply Industry, #3 ASW and local patrol operations to protect convoy routes, #4 Submarine Force to target major allied shipping lanes away from allied ASW assets, #5 1st Fleet operations to seek and destroy allied capital ships.
� Supplies � The main islands of Japan generate about 20k supply per day. I plan to use way more than that for the first few months on industry expansion. This is one thing I did test in my last AI game and I didn�t run out of supply, but to achieve it I will minimise export from Japan for the first few months until the industry expansion use starts to stabilise. Then in about March 1942 I will start to send a few manual supply out/resource back task forces. Operations in Luzon, Malaya and China have decent starting supply stockpiles but I will monitor this closely.

The attached image is what the war is all about for Japan. Keep the import rates above the deficits per month to keep the factories pumping out aircraft and ships, while also trying to build a Fuel and Supply stockpile for operations around the map.

IJA and IJN General Staff Orders summaries to follow before I send the turn in a few days time.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 49

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 12:12:14 PM

RangerJoe

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I would reconsider shutting off repairs to HI, LI, and oil if they need repairs. In fact, you might want to expand some LI in Fusan to increase the resource demand so more would be available for shipment to the Home Islands. You might want to expand more HI and LI in Manchuria, Korea, and China since there are no VPs to be lost if they are bombed.

Do refineries produce supplies in this game? That might make a difference.
edit: I just saw that it is Scenario 1 so they do produce supplies.

You might want to include Hokkaido and even Sakhalin in the resource and oil considerations for the Japan Economic Region even though they do need to be shipped in.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 9/11/2019 12:13:35 PM >

_____________________________

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�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
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Post #: 50

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/11/2019 9:10:27 PM

jdsrae

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Thanks joe, I�ll check but I think the only oil/HI/LI that starts damaged is on the front line in China so it will stay no repairs until the front line moves forward.
I�ve never invested supply into HI or LI expansion before. I�ll ponder that today at work. As HI has a 500 day payback it might get some, but LI I don�t think so. GEN Hata will be needing a lot of supply for China ops now, not in 1000 days time. And if I haven�t won before day 1000 I don�t think a little bit more supply will save me...

For my �economic regions�, they are defined by the coastlines so Hokkaido and Sakhalin are separate to Japan proper and each other.
I have one of those models for each region which I used to figure out the export rates required to move the starting stockpiles plus the daily production.

I didn�t quite finish all ship orders last night but made a big dent in it. All combat task forces are set.
Tonight I will clear the last few bases of merchants to move to their reorg ports and set the few starting auxiliaries, then it will be submarine orders.
I still haven�t touched an air group yet!

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 9/11/2019 9:32:36 PM >

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:19:54 PM

rustysi

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quote:

and then have to try and kill them in heavy urban with its 4 times defensive bonus.

OK, but both replacement cities are light urban, not heavy.

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Post #: 52

RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:24:52 PM

rustysi

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quote:

The problem is if I wait the allies could concentrate too.

Yup, given the opportunity I'd jump on day one and take the losses. KB LRCAP does sound like a sound tactic.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:41:14 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Armament factories � turned off repairs. Swapped 180 to vehicle factories to leave 440.

Oh, that doesn't sound like a good idea. I'd leave the armaments factories alone. I might shut some off later for various reasons, but you're gonna need all 620, and possibly then some, for the 'end game'. Losses will be high, and you'll need all the devices you can get. Remember swapping these sites out, they start 'damaged' and need to repair. That's 180k supply. Better spent elsewhere.

quote:

Vehicle factories � expand all that start to size 40, plus 180 from armaments for 420 total vehicle factories.

I think this is faulty as well. Yes, gradually expand all Veh sites to 40, but that's it. The 420 total seems way too high. Don't know what you did to think you need this much, but... At 250 (I'll stop at 240 in my next game) I have 52K+ plus Veh points in Jun '43, and I've upgraded all to the best current tank, except for a few regiments in China where they don't need to be the 'best'.

BTW I've got that 52k Veh points and now have 125 points in Veh turned off for quite some time. Again I believe I'll need the rest for the 'end game'.

If you don't believe me go the the general section and post a thread as to what others think. I say this because not all may be reading this AAR.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:43:25 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Repair Shipyards � Tokyo expanded to 50 for future CS to CVL conversions before I forget to do it.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:48:30 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Set Maebashi & Gifu to 10k+ as they have more factories to expand on turn 2.

Careful, I think one of these cities will experience 'spoilage' as its base is too small to have that much supply. I like to build up the base before hand. Its not much loss, but as Japan I don't like to 'waste' supply. Of course its your call. I just wanted you to be aware in case you weren't.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 6:56:40 PM

rustysi

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quote:

China have decent starting supply stockpiles

Heavy ops, and modest industry expansion will quickly exhaust these in China. You may need to bring in modest resup convoys from day one. I do, as I've found in my games that I've run low on supplies in the region. For me its generally 2 or 3 convoys of about 10-15k. Of course those convoys return with resources, which help alleviate the deficit in the HI until the big guys get running.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 7:04:12 PM

rustysi

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quote:

You might want to expand more HI and LI in Manchuria, Korea, and China

Don't forget Formosa. She has way more resources than LI, and as I've always said its cheaper to transport supplies than resources.

quote:

You might want to include Hokkaido and even Sakhalin in the resource and oil considerations for the Japan Economic Region

If you don't already know, these are a must. Also a region that may expand industry somewhat. Just not too much HI as they have no source of fuel. OTOH, ship out their oil and ship in a bit of fuel for their HI. One of the few areas where tankers are loaded both ways.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 7:07:03 PM

rustysi

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quote:

but I think the only oil/HI/LI that starts damaged is on the front line in China so it will stay no repairs until the front line moves forward.

No, the only site that starts damaged in a campaign game is Miri. So plan on getting lots of supply there to repair the oil. About 150k is needed over time. Forget the refinery.

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RE: Gensui jdsrae (J) vs CrackSabbath (A). IJ War Counc... - 9/12/2019 7:21:41 PM

rustysi

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quote:

I�ve never invested supply into HI or LI expansion before. I�ll ponder that today at work. As HI has a 500 day payback it might get some, but LI I don�t think so. GEN Hata will be needing a lot of supply for China ops now, not in 1000 days time. And if I haven�t won before day 1000 I don�t think a little bit more supply will save me...

Ah, very short sighted, Jimsan.

Big picture...

Each 'local' (NRA, Korea, Manchukuo, China, Formosa) region has a surplus of resources, and the HI has a deficit. There're are enough resources in the local area to offset the home deficit, and then some. Find the needs and expand the industries in the local areas to absorb the remaining surplus resources. I've done it roughly, and made some notes, which I've no idea of where they are now. Need to find them before my next game.

This will produce some more supply in these local regions for local consumption, and possibly some for export. Cheaper to transport supply. Saving fuel your main need.

Tah dah.

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