Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: battlevonwar



I heard of stories where the US fleet drove out at Pearl to meet the Japanese and it was pretty bloody overall.

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ORIGINAL: Numdydar

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ORIGINAL: battlevonwar



I heard of stories where the US fleet drove out at Pearl to meet the Japanese and it was pretty bloody overall.

What battles are you talking about? Midway was the only CV battle that came from Pearl. Coral Sea was launched from Australia.

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ORIGINAL: miv792

The Japanese were bad in everything, the ships did not float, the planes did not fly, they fought and fight badly, the lazy allies decided to defeat them only in 45. Please don't listen to fanboys so categorical :)

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Bad in everything? What about torpedoes, carrier ops, night fighting at sea and on land, defensive tactics, naval attacks by ground based air, individual sacrifice, discipline and determination? Just to name a few.

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So I'm not interested in Warplan (sorry not refighting WWII in Europe according to the actual War's script with "Barbarossa" scheduled for May-June 1942 or Russia attacks)

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ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Just finished the Book Shattered Sword about the Japanese CVs in the Pacific. I think everyone is right(it doesn't appear that the Japanese had a Pilot Training Program) when they lost their cream of the crop, they lost it for good. Plus it appears a lack in ability to replace their Carriers(naturally they had less than 1/20th the Industrial Capacity of the USA)

In Shattered Sword they break down precisely why the Japanese lost and they probably could not of helped it. Down to their Recon Planes and their orders. Their whole doctrine was set for them to lose. Could they of won a few more local victories and extended the war, yes... for certain could they of won the war, most assuredly NEVER unless the USA gave up.

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While the Japanese may have privately acknowledged the seriousness of their defeat at Midway, they did not feel that fact condemned them to to fighting on unequal terms around Guadalcanal. Indeed, in the short term, they were able to stay in game in the waters off Guadalcanal. At this point in the conflict, even after the losses she had suffered, Japan still possessed the means to equip the air groups of several more fleet carriers, had the ships themselves been available. Japan ultimately did commit a large scale of air resources to the Solomons contest, but most had to operate from primitive land air bases, some too far from the action.

Of the two major carrier battles fought off Guadalcanal, the Japanese lost at Eastern Solomons, but arguably won at Santa Cruz. But even when they achieved what appeared to be temporary victories in those waters, they lacked the strength anymore to capitalize on their triumphs. They could no longer seal the deal by inflicting a final crushing victory, driving off the US support vessels and exterminating US forces on the island. Had even just the Hiryu or Akagi survived Midway, the Japanese might have had the requisite strength to prevail four to six months more in those crucial waters.

However, once Japan concedes defeat at Guadalcanal, the tipping point finally arrives. By the end of 1942 the carrier fleets of both the US and Japan were in a shambles with both sides exhausted and spent. The US even borrowed a British carrier (the Victorious) early in 1943 to bolster their strength in the South Pacific. The opposing carrier fleets would not meet again until 1944. But by the middle of 1943 the Americans began committing Essex class carriers to the Pacific at the rate of one every other month in addition to the nine light Independence class carriers. A production rate the Japanese in their wildest dreams could never equal.

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ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Just finished the Book Shattered Sword about the Japanese CVs in the Pacific. I think everyone is right(it doesn't appear that the Japanese had a Pilot Training Program) when they lost their cream of the crop, they lost it for good. Plus it appears a lack in ability to replace their Carriers(naturally they had less than 1/20th the Industrial Capacity of the USA)

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ORIGINAL: Platoonist

One of the myths of the Midway battle is that the Japanese suffered catastrophic losses in their naval air arm. The casualty figures show that their losses were only slightly greater than those of the Americans, and represented less than a quarter of the aircrew assigned to 1st Air Fleet. The really crippling losses were among the carrier plane maintenance crews and mechanics and the carriers themselves. Their loss forced most of the Japanese Navy's pilots to operate off of rough land bases with poorly maintained aircraft during the decisive South Pacific campaign, in which the Japanese Navy's air power would be ground down by attrition.

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ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I learned something new. None of the books I read on the Pacific even mentioned this.
Eagle Against the Sun
Japan's War
and others.

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ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I learned something new. None of the books I read on the Pacific even mentioned this.
Eagle Against the Sun
Japan's War
and others.

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ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Thanks for the recommendation, I had forgotten about Toll. I read his book Six Frigates some time ago. Downloaded Pacific Crucible from Amazon.