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Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 2:23:56 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		When i look at Hokkaido's need for resources i see that it has 90 HI and 240 LI. If i look at the formulas that means Hokkaido needs 3780 resources/day to keep them running. It produces 2000 resources/day. So that is a daily deficit of 1780 resources/day. Hokkaido starts with a reserve of 658,670. So that's 370 days. So for about a year Hokkaido has enough resources.

My question is: should i just ship resources to Ominato for the first year and not worry so much about building up Wakkani and Hakodate ports right away?
Post #: 1
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 2:41:25 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Hokkaido produces 40k resources daily, not 2000. You need to ship from Hokkaido to Honshu.

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Post #: 2
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 2:48:46 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		I must not understand the numbers properly. These are the numbers next to resources listed on the bases. They add up to 2000. do i then multiply them by something?
Wakkanai 40
Saporro 900
Ashikawa 60
Muroran 60
Kushro 860
Hakodate 80

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Post #: 3
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 2:57:38 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Yes, it is multiplied by 20. Manual is good way to start.

Also read this https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605 Detailed explanation of production.

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Post #: 4
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 2:57:52 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		one resource facility produces 20 resources x day,

Hokkaido = 2,000 facilities x 20 = 40,000 x day

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Post #: 5
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 3:01:02 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks

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Post #: 6
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 3:06:22 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		increasing port size in Ominato and Hakkodate should be high in your priority list; level 5/ 6 ports are too small to handle such volumes; even worst when you consider adding 9,000 plus a day from Sakhalin.

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Post #: 7
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 3:20:18 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		Originally i thought about building up Wakkanai and dropping off from Sakhalin but that doesn't seem to make any sense. Just go directly to Ominato i guess.

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Post #: 8
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 4:16:03 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Resources is something really hard (nay, impossible) to run out of, but getting it to Honshu and Kyushu is the job. You will leave gigantic mounds of resources where they are produced, the DEI for instance. Java will consume some of that but it isn't worth it to ship resources to the HI. There's no excuse for falling behind in moving resources from Hokkaido and Sakhalin to Honshu. Ship some from Rashin and Fusan (and/or Keijo or PA) but don't run Kwangtun area low, it will be producing supply you'll be needing in China. Don't ship fuel out of PA either, the HI there will use all you produce or most of it. Ship resources from Formosa and Okinawa to Kyushu but don't run Formosa dry. Some fuel will accumulate at Hong Kong so keep a tanker train moving some to Kyushu, but leave a fair amount there for refueling ships and ports in the area. Babeldaob and later Manila make good places to dump fuel/oil for later transfer to the HI. Use the short haul from Palembang to Singapore to get fuel levels minimalized on Sumatra. You can ship some resources from the Philippines to Kyushu but it's probably not worth it to go further afield. Increase LI some in Hokkaido, Sakhalin and Korea/Manchukuo to use resources up on site so you needn't ship so much, but take it easy when doing that, it initially eats a lot of supply. Raise LI say, 10 pts. in a few spots and forget about it for awhile. You may capture significant LI and HI factories in China so keep in mind those will be hungry. Don't repair any refineries anywhere, you'll never have enough unrefined oil to keep the refineries you have busy. Repair any oilfields you capture 100%. Remember that refineries also produce supply, so Java will perhaps be in surplus on supply and Sumatra definitely will.

edit: You could initially move some fuel from PA to Japan but don't take it below 50k or so.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/24/2020 4:19:53 PM >

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RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 4:26:41 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		great, succinct explanation. Thanks. I'll go strait to Honshu from Sakhalin. Looks like 16 hexes from Shikuka to Ominato.

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Post #: 10
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 5:30:32 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
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From: Toronto and Lima
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quote:

ORIGINAL: specie1

great, succinct explanation. Thanks. I'll go strait to Honshu from Sakhalin. Looks like 16 hexes from Shikuka to Ominato.


it is actually 18 hexes; I personally prefer to have always some xAKLs running Toyohara Wakkanai (6 hexes) and some medium xAKs doing Shikuka Sapporo (13 hexes).. eventually Wakkanai will reach level 7 and then it will take over from Sapporo...

Notice that fuel is one of your main problems, so you should try to reduce fuel consumption as much as possible.. a few hexes more or a less fuel efficient cargo ship can make a difference in the long term.
It is for that same reason that it is not worth to build CS resource TFs from far away places, instead just bring back on return trips and ignore very far away places

EDIT: Light industry's ROI get positive after 1,100 days; meaning that if you build in Dec7.41 the decision will start to pay back after Dec11.44 ... but only if the industry is still there (not bombed) and you control it. so be really careful where and when to build


< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 1/24/2020 5:48:10 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 6:14:57 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		That ROI is crazy. I won't even ask how you figured that out. Is HI as bad as that?

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Post #: 12
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 6:20:00 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Never build HI. No way it's worth it, ever.

HI consumes fuel, something you'll never feel comfortable about having enough of.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/24/2020 6:21:20 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 6:24:46 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		HI: maybe a little in Malaya or Java, as there is oil surplus there. Never in the home islands

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Post #: 14
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 6:25:29 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury



EDIT: Light industry's ROI get positive after 1,100 days; meaning that if you build in Dec7.41 the decision will start to pay back after Dec11.44 ... but only if the industry is still there (not bombed) and you control it. so be really careful where and when to build



Ask "Anne of a Thousand Days" if it's worth it!



< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/24/2020 6:30:55 PM >

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RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/24/2020 9:11:30 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Ship excess resources to Singapore from the DEI. You can ship resources from Haiphong out if you need to but if there is enough of a demand for the resources, they will eventually make it all to way to Korea if needed there as long as there is a decent land route.

If you build HI/LI in Manchuria, it probably will not be at risk unless/until the Soviets enter the war. No strategic points for them being bombed either, it will also increase the demand for resources there so Fusan (Pusan) is an option for increasing the LI in order to increase the resource draw there to go to the Home Islands by CS convoys.

I think that someone (Obvert maybe?) ran out of resources in one game since I believe that Hokkaido was lost and the enemy bombed the Resources on the Home Islands. So if ships are returning empty to the Home Islands, load them up with excess resources and let them return home full.

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Post #: 16
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/25/2020 1:50:45 AM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specie1

That ROI is crazy. I won't even ask how you figured that out. Is HI as bad as that?

It costs 1000 supply to repair one point of an industry. That repaired point will begin producing one point of output per day. 1000 days is a little under three years before you get your 1000 supply back.
If you are the Allies, repairing HI is OK because you have lots of fuel and you get two points of supply per day from the fuel and resource inputs, so the ROI on supply is only 500 days.

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Post #: 17
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/25/2020 2:25:21 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		1,000 days if you repair
1,100 if you decide to expand

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Post #: 18
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/25/2020 9:20:36 PM   
Ian R

 

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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
... if ships are returning empty to the Home Islands, load them up with excess resources and let them return home full.


I thought that was pretty much standard procedure (allthough the IJ managed not to do it IRL!)


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Post #: 19
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/26/2020 6:12:38 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		I do expand HI in Japan, evdn considerably, in slected places. And that's why, because I like and need more HI.

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Post #: 20
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/26/2020 7:44:57 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

I do expand HI in Japan, evdn considerably, in slected places. And that's why, because I like and need more HI.


issue is that unless you can keep the flow of oil or fuel to to the home islands, you are just accelerating its consumption

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Post #: 21
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/27/2020 8:30:51 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Notice that fuel is one of your main problems, so you should try to reduce fuel consumption as much as possible..


And one way to do it is to build up the LI in the NRA a bit. The key word here is a 'bit'. The LI will suck up more of the resources, therefore less to ship, therefore fuel conservation.

Lets face it the area needs supply anyway. It therefore becomes self sufficient.

Heck, I think I even cranked up the HI on Hokkaido a touch. From 40 to 50 at each of two sites. Hey, I have oil to ship out of there, so the return trip loads with fuel for the HI and vessels stationed on the island. One place where tankers work efficiently, fuel one way, oil the other. Normally they go empty one way.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 1/27/2020 8:39:06 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Question about Sakhalin resources - 1/27/2020 8:35:50 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

I do expand HI in Japan, evdn considerably, in slected places. And that's why, because I like and need more HI.


Can't go too much, otherwise you start to restrict the production of 'fleet juice'.

My best estimate for Japan is an HI output of ~15k. That means 7.5k HI factories. More or less... JMHO. YMMV.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 23
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