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RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 12:58:29 AM   
geofflambert


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Ann is fine as a trainer but is good for ASW in tight spaces around the Home Islands. Might make a decent kamikaze plane later.




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Post #: 31
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 11:30:20 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Howdy! After several years I started a new game as Japan, DDB-C #28, so pretty much stock. I wanted to check with the veterans on aircraft development and production choices, because my memory is a little rusty and also performance may have changed with newer game versions. I have some assumptions here and wondered: Could you please tell me if I am on-base or off base? I want the truth, and I can handle the truth.

1. Is there a point to producing the Pete? Jake is a superior search plane, other than as BB Bombardment spotters, is there anything I need PETES for in particular?
2. TONY v TOJO: They are close in capability, but I assume you cancel Tony program due to engine dead-end....correct?
3. OSCAR: You need this plane early. But once the TOJO is available, is there a role for the Oscar, other than as long-range escort? (Or filler for when you don't have enough Tojos)
4. NICK: What is this plane good for? I recall it's not a good dogfighter, it's great vs. unescorted bombers, but Allies don't do that very often. Anything else? I could see it useful in Strafing or Low N, but that seems like a narrow mission set. Tell me what I am missing.
5. R&D PRIORITIES: Frank, George, and Jack are R&D Priorities. Anything else should be?
6. LILLY: Is there a point to this plane, or should you switch to Helen/Sally when you have enough?
7. LIGHT BOMBERS: In DDB-C you have to pay PPs to switch Light to Medium Bombers. Worth it? Seems like it is when you have enough planes. Mary, Ann, Sonia all kind of suck.

I have cancelled the obvious planes (Nate,Ida). Anything else?



1.PETE : I keep producing it for a while. The Jake uses the Ha-35, which is in high demand at the beginning and the Pete is good enough for bombardament spotting. For the first months you won't be able to both replace Jake's losses and upgrade groups around unless you go for a massive, and finally wrong, production.

2. TONY vs TOJO : The Tony arrives later and it's not a big deal in terms of usefulness. The Tojo arrives early, uses a good engine (Ha-34) and it's sufficiently armed/armoured to be an extremely important element of your '43 airforce. The Ha-34 is quite good since you probably will have only the Helen-IIa to use it and you won't produce many of these bombers for the time the Tojo enters into production, making it possible a shift from using those engines for Helen-IIa to using them on Tojos.
Tojo is an excellent climber and it has a relatively short technology tree. It is not well-armed but it is good enough. Its speed is excellent for the early to mid game and it is a wonderful sweeper.
I find the tojo vs tony choice a no brain.

3. OSCAR : Few players actually love the Oscar, at least as much as I do. I find it a wonderful plane. The final version has 2x20mm, which are quite good to shot down the heavier allied fighters. Its speed isn't good at all, with a top speed of only 360mph, but its maneuvrability is high, somehow compensating if you go for an extensive use of low layered CAPs.
The range is amazing and it carries 2x250Kg bombs, something that can be handy in certain situations.
I love the Oscar and I extensively use it, albeit with horrible losses, all along the match.
It shouldn't be forgotten that it uses the Ha-35, an engine that becomes less in demand as the game goes on. At the beginning you need the Ha-35 for basically everything important, but in 1943 its usage decreases drastically (f.ex. the A6M8 uses the Ha-33, you stop producing the Kates, etcetc).

4. NICK : I like the plane as night fighter. It cannot fight against B29, of course, but it's sufficiently good for early and mid game. I tend to convert 12-planes LB groups in China and use them as NF. They're good in that. I tend to produce between 30 and 50 Nick per-month. A niche plane.
I don't use it at all in any kind of bombing run.

5. R&D PRIORITIES : Frank and George are definitely your priorities. Then, it comes to your strategy and your doctrine. I personally invest huge amounts of R&D on three other planes: A6M8, Judy and Peggy(T). But that's me and it's highly situational.

6. LILY : It's a relatively good plane, fastest IJ bomber in the first half of the game. Its range and payload prevent it from being very good. I tend to keep producing it for the first months because I usually have incredibly high losses in 2Es. Don't forget that in 1943 the dive bomber version comes online and it's surprisingly good. Nothing special, eh, but still surprisingly good all considered. I use it against soft targets only, to be fair.

7. LIGHT BOMBERS : I always convert all the 1Es to 2Es, either bombers (Helen-II) or FBs. I keep some Anns to ASW duties, though. They have a range of 8, which becomes 4 in ASW: more than enough for areas where enemy sub activity isn't intese.
Mary isn't that bad. Ida sucks. Sonia sucks.


Production of obsolete stuff:

I keep producing:
- Mary
- Ida
- Nate
until the engines in the pool are exhausted.
To be fair, I tend to just throw away these planes. For example: I besiege Clark Field and I send hordes of 1Es (including Nates) in bombing runs. They do little damage but they make the AA guns shot.
Also, I use Nates as night fighters. It looks weird and mad, but they disrupt enemy formation and, I believe, help the other guys present to target enemy bombers.
Generally, I try to find ways to just consume these planes and I think it has a positive ROI after all.

I don't despise too much neither the Nate nor the Mary. They have both their niche use I believe. Of course, provided you don't have alternatives and/or you want to finish the engines in the pool on 7th Dec 1941.

I don't use in this way the Claudes, though: IJNAF pilots are too precious. I even use those Jean you have in the warehouses at the beginning......

Yes. I'm a stingy b@stard.

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Post #: 32
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 2:59:49 PM   
Q-Ball


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A couple more really good posts here! It's intereesting ITAKLinus that you continue to produce the crappy planes. I have bombed Clark with garbage planes before, mostly as a way to use flak as you say, but it also trains the pilots anyway. And thanks for your comments on the Oscar and Lilly.

I'll look closely at A6M8 and the Peggy T; already had Judy on prioirty, because the Val is not a good plane

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Post #: 33
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 3:11:34 PM   
RangerJoe


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I produce more Jakes since I supersize extra float plane groups. They will work nice for search/ASW in the rear areas. They also work nice on Low Nav against lightly or unarmored ships. Think of popping in a group and use them in areas that the enemy things is secure. At 1000 feet, they might even avoid CAP. That way you can also train Kamikaze pilots as well in Low Nav.

In the scenario that I am playing, the Tojo uses the HA-35 engine. The Helen is the only one using the HA-34 engine.

Supersize a Jean torpedo group to size 81 and use that to either train or bomb Chinese units that can have to CAP on defense. Two 250 Kg bombs for a single engine plane on a size 2 airfield.

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Post #: 34
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 3:56:03 PM   
Q-Ball


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The Jake is clearly the best seaplane, and I am expanding seaplane groups. I don't want to expand production too much though, because if you build like 50 factories or so, seems like you'll end up awash in Jakes later on.....I'm going to be patient while the pilots train up.

Hadn't thought of using the JEAN, I hadn't check the bombload....it does carry alot, could work when there is no resistance

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Post #: 35
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 1/30/2020 4:11:41 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

A couple more really good posts here! It's intereesting ITAKLinus that you continue to produce the crappy planes. I have bombed Clark with garbage planes before, mostly as a way to use flak as you say, but it also trains the pilots anyway. And thanks for your comments on the Oscar and Lilly.

I'll look closely at A6M8 and the Peggy T; already had Judy on prioirty, because the Val is not a good plane



Well, there is a clear tradeoff.

Supposing you lose 5 crappy planes per-day for the whole 1942, you have a net loss of 1,095 planes per-year. Now, it's a lot in terms of VPs. And industrially speaking, it's not good either.

However, if you take into cosideration that:
A) the industrial cost is 19,710HI, which equals to 548 new 1E fighters or 365 2Es.
B) With a relatively easy to achieve +2,000HI per-day, you have 730,000HI banked during 1942. The 19,710HI expenditure amounts to only 2,70% of the net gain. Not much, then.
C) You have a fair amount of pilots getting trained
D) [decisive point for me] You don't have the industrial capacity of having 2E on ALL your bombers for many months. Using crappy 1Es you actually lessen the burden carried by 2Es, lowering their losses and/or enabling those groups to be redirected on more relevant targets.

Now, I can see that there are many many possible ojbections to my lavish use of crappy planes, but I am somewhat convinced I am doing well.
Probably, it just suits my operational and industrial setup.


I strongly advice on using Nates as Night Fighters, though. Putting planes in CAP increases their skills anyway and they do disrupt bomber runs. I generally don't produce many Oscar-Ic anyway, so I try to keep Nates on for many different duties.
Sometimes I even use them as cannon fodder in CAP. There is no real need to have extra losses in 1942 for Japan, but they do quite well if you have good numbers of much better planes.
In one of my two PBEMs,end of May 1942, of the roughly 250 1E defending Magwe, 80 are Nates. And they are doing surprisingly well.

In the other PBEM I had them defending Rabaul's skies until April/May 1943. Horrible losses, but they did their job. I mean, my whole reasoning is that a Nate for 18HI is actually better than an Oscar-Ic for 36HI, provided the Nate will be backed by more performing stuff (A6M2 or Tojo or whatver you can muster in 1942).

The same is applied to 1E bombers. In fights in which I aim to just put pressure on the enemy and make him consume ammunition, I prefer throwing away a 18HI 1E rather than a 54HI 2E bomber.



In the PBEM in May-42, I finally run out of most of my Sonias. I still have hundreds of Ann/Mary/Ida/Nate to have shot down, though. But I'm working on that.
I have 2 groups of Nates bombing Sydney at 10k and the rest is taking care of Manila/Clark/Bataan.
Another couple of groups are used for random runs on the Indo-Burmese border. Mainly port attacks to disrupt enemy's attempts to bring supplies forward. They even sunk a couple of xAKLs over the time.
And the big CAPs done by Nates.




JEAN. It's actually a decent TB and it's quite good to use it as trainer. I have sometimes equipped my CVLs with it. Since losses have been extremely low and they fly less than other planes (or, at least, it's what I think), I have decided to give the nice biplanes a purely training+coastaldefence role.
I like them.
As with the Claudes, the problem is that if you want to run out of them you need to invest pilots and you don't have too many IJNAF pilots. That's why I prefer warehouses full of useless planes but pilots alive. That's my general policy with IJNAF as a whole, even for models such as the A6M2, when it becomes obsolete.



Last but not least, I tend to produce very little amounts of the inital planes and I have adopted the production of "lots" for most of my a/c. So, I generally don't end up with massive stocks of obsolete planes and I can rather invest in those marginal crappy 1Es for half the price.

I strongly recommend switching to the mentality of "lots" rather than "flows" when producing most of the planes. It helps a lot the industrial planning and it puts every model (or most of them) into the right proportion, i.e. avoiding overproducing stuff just because you can afford it or just because you are having intense losses in a given period.
My industrial base is in systematic overcapacity, though: I might produce 20 A6M2 per-month but I keep the capacity of producing say 100 (80, actually).

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Post #: 36
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 10:48:50 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

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Just checked:

- Hitachi - early = will be finished in Oct-42 at 32xIda per-month / 150 engines in pool at 01-06-1942
- Nakajima - Kotobuki = will be finished in mid-July-1942 at 35xNate per-month / 55 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Hitachi - Amakaze = will be finished in Oct-42 at 10xGlen per-month / 50 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Kawasaki - early = will be finished in Aug-42 at 11xMary per-month / 33 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Nakajima - Hika[...something] = already finished in April-42 through production of Kate-I

Pool situation of obsolete planes is quite good.
- Sonia = running out of them. I have few groups still equipped with the plane but I guess I'll lose all of them soon.
- Ida = big pool of over 200 a/c plus the 150 which will be produced. I have few groups equipped with Idas: when I run out of Sonias, I increase Ida's usage and therefore its losses will skyrocket
- Nate = big pool of 250 planes plus the 50 which will be produced. Many groups using it, but there is no rush to lose them.
- Mary = pool basically empty (10 a/c) and few groups using them. I plan to have them finished by mid-July-42 and then I'll switch to Idas.
- Ann = I like the plane and I don't count it as "obsolete", therefore I use them in a normal way, without sending them to death for marginal gains.
- Claude = not produced and a decent amount in pool. I don't plan any reckless use of them due to the scarse numbers of IJNAF pilots
- Jean = see Claude

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RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 11:29:10 AM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Just checked:

- Hitachi - early = will be finished in Oct-42 at 32xIda per-month / 150 engines in pool at 01-06-1942
- Nakajima - Kotobuki = will be finished in mid-July-1942 at 35xNate per-month / 55 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Hitachi - Amakaze = will be finished in Oct-42 at 10xGlen per-month / 50 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Kawasaki - early = will be finished in Aug-42 at 11xMary per-month / 33 in pool at 01-06-1942
- Nakajima - Hika[...something] = already finished in April-42 through production of Kate-I


You left out Nissan, Toyota, and Sony.

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Post #: 38
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 1:17:31 PM   
RangerJoe


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I thought that Hitachi was a grill . . .

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Post #: 39
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 2:36:24 PM   
dr.hal


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ITAKLinus, your posts are informative however, despite your references to naval pilot scarcity, I get the feeling that you tactics seem to throw pilots into the breach as cannon fodder. I've seen many posts by others on this forum that indicate the lack of trained pilots, due to steep early on attrition, is a real problem for the Japanese. Yet your posts seem to think that the IJAAF has TONES of them to draw AA fire, etc. I would think that keeping the prewar trained pilots is a very good thing for the mid to late war months. Did I read you wrong? In the early months of the war I try not to expose any good Jap pilot in a bad aircraft to excess hazards.

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RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 4:26:11 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that Hitachi was a grill . . .

That would be hibachi.
Hitachi was my first TV, and they also made audio equipment like tape decks and tuner/amps.
Of course, you had to turn the propeller backward by hand and then let it go to get them to start ...

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RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 4:32:53 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

you had to turn the propeller backward by hand


Duh. How else are you going to wind the rubber band up?

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RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 5:57:14 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

you had to turn the propeller backward by hand


Duh. How else are you going to wind the rubber band up?

You had rubber bands? We had to line up and all blow real hard.

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Post #: 43
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 7:29:52 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
We had to line up and all blow real hard.


Wait...for what now?

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Post #: 44
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 8:20:15 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
We had to line up and all blow real hard.


Wait...for what now?

To make the balsa wood plane fly! Get your mind out of where ever it was going....

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Post #: 45
RE: Just give me the plane truth - 2/1/2020 9:25:22 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
We had to line up and all blow real hard.


Wait...for what now?

To make the balsa wood plane fly! Get your mind out of where ever it was going....


Yeah,....GP

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