durnedwolf
Posts: 885
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
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ORIGINAL: durnedwolf
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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
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ORIGINAL: 22sec
I think for some the issue is that they look at under what law, or a state's constitution, an executive such as a governor or mayor has the legal authority to issue an order that carries with it a penalty. We should ask as American's is our Bill of Rights, our rule of law, only applicable when the government says it is, and that it can be tossed aside for any emergency? I will leave you with this example. In April, our mayor on his own decided to ban people from open carry within the city of Jackson. Thankfully even Jackson's City Council slapped him down, and he was force to quickly withdraw the order. It is a slippery slope, and one that goes against the foundation of this republic.
That is what I mean by losing our freedoms.
Everything needs to be taken into context.
So in case of a flood, it's cool for the Mayor or the governor to issue an evacuation. In the case of fire, they could call for an evacuation. Those are emergencies and citizens expect elected leaders to take charge to protect lives and property. I would argue that it should be no different for the wearing of masks and the temporary closing of certain types of businesses (emphasis on the word temporary). Now if I own a tattoo parlor and the mayor/governor shuts me down for a few months I'm probably pissed. But if the CDC and advisors that are considered experts in the field of pandemics tell me that masks and separation will knock down the spread... If in my city/state I'm a mayor or governor and I see the number of positive tests increasing hand-over-fist, and if I see the ICUs reaching their max potential in the hospitals, what are my options?
For the point brought up by 22sec, I'd say they could put a ban of open carry on the ballot and see what their constituents want. For the case of wearing masks and trying to maintain separation while a pandemic is raging in my city/state, I don't think it unreasonable for an elected official to try to mitigate the spread of the virus via temporary mandates.
Right now in California, our positive tests are skyrocketing. The governor has put restrictions on businesses. No movie theatres, outdoor dining only - only serving alcohol with meals. Wear a mask (now with penalties if you don't) and maintain separation when possible. A *lot* of schools will start doing distance learning for K-12 and most of the colleges.
The problem, as I see it, is that we don't have a unified response nation-wide. Let's say that in California we really lock down hard and through shelter-in-place and mask/social distancing plus shutting down most businesses for 45 days, we knock the virus spread down to a trickle. But in Arizona - in that state - what if they don't do anything to mitigate the virus spread and their infection rate is still high or increasing? A vector in California is now a border state. Should states be shutting down borders with other states? I submit that just as a governor or mayor can give emergency orders in their state for disasters, the president can do the same. Hell - he can start a war without the approval of congress and, per the War Powers Act, he just has to notify Congress within 48 hours and can deploy troops for 60 days without the approval of congress. I feel we should be fighting the virus as one nation - undivided.
Banning the sale of firearms because of Covid-19, how does that help?
"New Orleans Mayor Issues Coronavirus Order Allowing Ban on Sale, Transportation of Firearms"
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/16/new-orleans-mayor-issues-coronavirus-order-allowing-ban-on-sale-transportation-of-firearms/
Then:
"She signed a follow-up proclamation on March 16, 2020, further emphasizing her emergency powers to “suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation, of alcoholic beverages.”"
Church service help in cars, people fined $500?
https://www.wlbt.com/2020/04/10/people-ticketed-each-after-attending-greenville-drive-in-church-service/
Why should there be a unified response when some places don't even have it? Should the entire country be locked down with no one leaving their dwelling for any reason for 90 days?
As far as school closings, read what the LA teachers union wants:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/07/14/la-teachers-union-refuses-to-return-to-in-person-classes-until-their-progressive-n2572420
Should the entire nation send Covid-19 patients to nursing homes like some states did? Or should the people with Covid-19 be the people quarantined?
Who Sent COVID-19 Positive Patients Into Nursing Homes?
https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/2020/05/15/who-sent-covid19-positive-patients-into-nursing-homes-n2568837
I'll lead you to water but I won't make you drink.
The ban on the sale of firearms was in mid-March. It was part of a ban on "un-necessary" businesses being closed. They closed tattoo parlors also... And Bars... To try and protect people... From a scary virus with limited intel back in March...
The Church Service Help in Cars - that was in April. A ban was put on attending church. The concern in the article states the common use of restroom facilities as being one of the concerns facing "... this invisible giant called COVIF-19. To cop a fit over leaders trying to prevent others from getting infected and spreading the virus while operating under limited intel is a piss-poor whine in my opinion. The intent of the order was legit - stop gathering in areas (like churches) where you can get infected or infect others. The Sit-in-the-car thing was an attempt to get around an order from the governor. According to the article "Mayor Erick Simmons believes the drive-in church services create other health violations." Also in the article: “What we’ve been asking for in the state is bold leadership from our state, and partnership. If we have clear direction, we wouldn’t have issues that have evolved across the state," said the mayor. This is a congregation trying to get their way in spite of an emergency order. When there is no compromise the can turn to the law and let the lawyers have a go at it. In the end - no one was hurt - no one died from getting a ticket - and they have a legal option to seek redress.
In regards to education LA faculty say:
- What about children with other health issues?
- The state mandate from the governor is 6ft of separation. How do we do that in classes designed for 30-40 students to be sitting in rows of 7-10 desks with maybe 3-4 feet separating each row?
- Roughly 1/4 of the faculty and staff in the schools have other health issues or they are of an age where they are at a higher risk of death.
- If Johnny goes to school and gets the virus from Suzie - Johnny brings the virus home with him. Even if he might have zero side effects he is still a carrier bringing a virus into his own home. People whine when they have to put a mask on to go to the grocery store. Now for family safety, you have to wear masks in your own home because your kids are doing something the CDC is telling everyone not to do (that being to gather in large groups)?
- Teachers are now responsible for Johnny and Suzie to wear a mask? The school has to have extras in case Johnny or Suzie lose their masks? Now teachers and staff need to be mask/social-distance police?
- I would note that the LAUSD educates over half a million students and employes 60,000 adults and covers a service area of 720 square miles.
So this is my 2-cents - one can quote articles all they want but we all have to try and look at both sides of a situation and make the best decision we can. And we are all human and we all make mistakes. If the intent is to close all unnecessary businesses (including the sale of ammo/weapons) to reduce the spread of the virus, if the intent of stopping church services is to protect the people and families of your town/city, and if the intent of starting k-12 with distance Ed is to protect students, their families, and the school staff by doing distance-learning until we have reduced positive tests down to something akin to S. Korea, then I submit that digging in one's heels and copping a waaa is not the way to go. Let's address the problems as they come up. Let's talk about the best way to handle situations. And let's give our leaders a break when they are trying to do the right thing. We can go back afterward and do an after-action review and see where we can do things better. We can review and make changes to an emergency order as more information comes along. But standing around and pointing fingers is - in my opinion - the wrong way to go.
_____________________________
DW
I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.
The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer
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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 
I do know someone who smoked a cigarette while wearing a M17A1. 
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