RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 3:43:58 AM

Lowpe

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I have set up two solid surprises for the Japanese on this graphic...

I think most AFB's use the PT boats offensively, but here I am going to try and use them to shield the thundering herd on its escape. They will meet up with some AGPs at some point to replenish...

I believe my tactic of having the thundering herd escape to the east is shot...routing ships shows some threat east of Legaspi, and there is another invasion force coming up from Babeldoab...I thought about engaging with Boise, but her Captain really stinks, and I would rather have her fight after the IJN cruisers expend ammo on the Thundering Herd. Marblehead is also in the area hiding. I might have a chance to jig to the east yet though.

I have moved several support ships to dot bases, AVPs, AOs, AG, AGPs, AD. The Fleet CVs north of Luzon present both a problem and an opportunity. We shall see what happens here...

Two of the Pearl destroyers are moderately damaged, and more than a half dozen subs are limping back. Most subs are loading supplies for China, only one working S class fit for combat duty, and it will screen the Thundering Herd at choke points.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/10/2020 3:44:18 AM >

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Post #: 721

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 3:47:26 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Treat those old British CLs like the Omahas - they are great raiding vessels, expendable but they can mess up those IJ DDs and merchants quite well and dodge aircraft bombs too. I send them out without DD escort.

Omahas with working torpedoes!

Not great legs though.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 722

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:36:50 AM

RangerJoe

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Send them out with other ships, then break them off, refuel, let them have fun.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 723

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 11:06:18 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

...I think most AFB's use the PT boats offensively, but here I am going to try and use them to shield the thundering herd on its escape. They will meet up with some AGPs at some point to replenish...

Be prepared to be greatly disappointed.

PT TFs are very dependent on atmospheric conditions, primarily the moonlight level and weather. Unless optimal conditions are in place, they will often miss combat.

As a point defense tactic, PT TFs don't quite provide the same level of frustration under less than optimal conditions because they have nowhere to go and are in fact being sought by the enemy. Using them to accompany and provide some protection to other TFs at sea is an offensive action which is impacted by whether optimal conditions are present.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 724

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 12:17:37 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

...I think most AFB's use the PT boats offensively, but here I am going to try and use them to shield the thundering herd on its escape. They will meet up with some AGPs at some point to replenish...

Be prepared to be greatly disappointed.

PT TFs are very dependent on atmospheric conditions, primarily the moonlight level and weather. Unless optimal conditions are in place, they will often miss combat.

As a point defense tactic, PT TFs don't quite provide the same level of frustration under less than optimal conditions because they have nowhere to go and are in fact being sought by the enemy. Using them to accompany and provide some protection to other TFs at sea is an offensive action which is impacted by whether optimal conditions are present.

Alfred

I don't think I can be disappointed in their performance.

I am using them to soak off ammo. Ammunition stocks are the IJN's weakness this early, but the fleet carriers pose a problem...

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 725

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 12:24:11 PM

Lowpe

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Last time I played Allies seriously, many years ago, you couldn't move up here because of IJN invasions and aerial torpedoes. It is funny/odd having relative freedom of movement.

I like Warspite. I plan to use her in a very limited special role. Colorado will be a dock queen till the Jan 1942 upgrades.

Moved troops and AA to cover resources/bases/Portland, Prince Rupert, etc., etc.

Usual Build AFBs, and forts but here again will be centralizing plane training regionally.

Canada Command is prepping for Coal Harbor, there is no 5 hex HQs available, so probably a wasted click.

The Clemson Class destroyers are headed for Asotria and will patrol there...they will aid any unlikely detection for the CD guns protecting the inlet. There are a couple of S class subs that will head there too, for the same purpose.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/10/2020 12:34:30 PM >

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Post #: 726

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 1:53:16 PM

Lowpe

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A fully equipped atoll defense is nothing to take lightly, even during Japan's vaunted amphibious spree.

Wake, Midway, and Marcus. The goal is to buy time and divert forces at the sacrifice of ground troops. We will have mines, and cd guns, and hopefully forts and supply enough.

That tank battalion can really anchor an atoll defense, really only vulnerable by air. If we can get some good AA to cover, we could conceivably turn Wake Island into a major pain in the arse for Japan given the number of engineers already there.

Thinking of sending the 8th Marine to the Line Islands/Xmas initially...ultimately to New Guinea.

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 1:57:42 PM

Encircled

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Hazarding a guess here, but as it took Scout so long to get everything up and running, that he's got a strict timetable that he won't deviate from easily.

Anything out of the ordinary will throw him off a lot, and that is good news for you.

Personally I'd send that Marine Rgt to Oz on the Queen Elizabeth

Then you can still choose to deploy it pretty much anywhere.

_____________________________

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 2:12:03 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Hazarding a guess here, but as it took Scout so long to get everything up and running, that he's got a strict timetable that he won't deviate from easily.

Anything out of the ordinary will throw him off a lot, and that is good news for you.

Personally I'd send that Marine Rgt to Oz on the Queen Elizabeth

Then you can still choose to deploy it pretty much anywhere.

Oz does make some sense.

I don't think he has a strict timetable...my guess there. I think I can get him reacting to me...which is death to Japan early on.

(in reply to Encircled)

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 2:24:40 PM

RangerJoe

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I think that one of those infantry regiments is actually part of a division at Oahu.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 730

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 2:38:08 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that one of those infantry regiments is actually part of a division at Oahu.

You are probably right, but I am not worried about forming divisions right now, this is the time of the season for regiments...

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 731

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 2:47:38 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that one of those infantry regiments is actually part of a division at Oahu.

You are probably right, but I am not worried about forming divisions right now, this is the time of the season for regiments...

True. Plus the other regiments are restricted . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 732

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:23:41 PM

Lowpe

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38 days from East US to Captetown (without a ship), a dozen days from Capetown to map edge plus or minus.

Almost done the first turn, but I have guests coming for dinner...so I won't finish till tomorrow.

A few things to tweak yet, and have yet to set the night time intercept of the KB by heavy cruisers. Probably a mistake this early...but it isn't a full KB.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/10/2020 4:26:54 PM >

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:25:39 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

...I think most AFB's use the PT boats offensively, but here I am going to try and use them to shield the thundering herd on its escape. They will meet up with some AGPs at some point to replenish...

Be prepared to be greatly disappointed.

PT TFs are very dependent on atmospheric conditions, primarily the moonlight level and weather. Unless optimal conditions are in place, they will often miss combat.

As a point defense tactic, PT TFs don't quite provide the same level of frustration under less than optimal conditions because they have nowhere to go and are in fact being sought by the enemy. Using them to accompany and provide some protection to other TFs at sea is an offensive action which is impacted by whether optimal conditions are present.

Alfred

I don't think I can be disappointed in their performance.

I am using them to soak off ammo. Ammunition stocks are the IJN's weakness this early, but the fleet carriers pose a problem...

If the PT TFs don't get into a fight, or run away before any shots are fired, the IJN won't be expending any ammo.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 734

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:29:17 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

...I think most AFB's use the PT boats offensively, but here I am going to try and use them to shield the thundering herd on its escape. They will meet up with some AGPs at some point to replenish...

Be prepared to be greatly disappointed.

PT TFs are very dependent on atmospheric conditions, primarily the moonlight level and weather. Unless optimal conditions are in place, they will often miss combat.

As a point defense tactic, PT TFs don't quite provide the same level of frustration under less than optimal conditions because they have nowhere to go and are in fact being sought by the enemy. Using them to accompany and provide some protection to other TFs at sea is an offensive action which is impacted by whether optimal conditions are present.

Alfred

I don't think I can be disappointed in their performance.

I am using them to soak off ammo. Ammunition stocks are the IJN's weakness this early, but the fleet carriers pose a problem...

If the PT TFs don't get into a fight, or run away before any shots are fired, the IJN won't be expending any ammo.

Alfred

They do have a tendency to do that...I have at least put in aggressive commanders. At least they might cost ops points, even if they turn tail...don't know on that one.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 735

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:35:33 PM

Alfred

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Lowpe,

PT TFs are a bit different from normal combat TFs in that the specific algorithms temper the impact of the TF leader stats to a certain degree. The conditions really do play a more prominent role than you are probably accustomed to.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 736

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:41:53 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Almost done the first turn, but I have guests coming for dinner...so I won't finish till tomorrow.

A few things to tweak yet, and have yet to set the night time intercept of the KB by heavy cruisers. Probably a mistake this early...but it isn't a full KB.

For dinner or to dinner? There is a difference in meaning.

I mean, you might have lobsters coming for dinner . . .

I don't think that it is a mistake to put a hurt on the KB or any part of it. Did you ascertain how many carriers were involved in the Pearl Harbor strike? If so, could the augmented air groups of the Enterprise and the Lexington be used against them? I mean that the Wake fighters could deploy to the Big E and the Lexington has Wind Indicator dive bombers on board.

BTW, those Wind Indicators do have a nice range so they work nicely for Naval Search and ASW functions.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 737

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:45:13 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that one of those infantry regiments is actually part of a division at Oahu.

You are probably right, but I am not worried about forming divisions right now, this is the time of the season for regiments...

The 24th and 25th Division have their Regiments split between the mainland and PH. The regiments are assigned to different HQs so you have to be careful to choose a common HQ when you do get around to buying them out for recombining into the Division.

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Post #: 738

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 4:50:13 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Almost done the first turn, but I have guests coming for dinner...so I won't finish till tomorrow.

A few things to tweak yet, and have yet to set the night time intercept of the KB by heavy cruisers. Probably a mistake this early...but it isn't a full KB.

For dinner or to dinner? There is a difference in meaning. I mean, you might have lobsters coming for dinner . . .

I don't think that it is a mistake to put a hurt on the KB or any part of it. Did you ascertain how many carriers were involved in the Pearl Harbor strike? If so, could the augmented air groups of the Enterprise and the Lexington be used against them? I mean that the Wake fighters could deploy to the Big E and the Lexington has Wind Indicator dive bombers on board.

BTW, those Wind Indicators do have a nice range so they work nicely for Naval Search and ASW functions.

The aircraft numbers on the PH strike looked like the equivalent of three CVs, but the KB graphic shows CVLs as well. I think this mod has a lot of CVLs, including the ones John beefed up with armour that can handle 500 lb bombs and lots of AA.

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 5:07:02 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Almost done the first turn, but I have guests coming for dinner...so I won't finish till tomorrow.

A few things to tweak yet, and have yet to set the night time intercept of the KB by heavy cruisers. Probably a mistake this early...but it isn't a full KB.

For dinner or to dinner? There is a difference in meaning. I mean, you might have lobsters coming for dinner . . .

I don't think that it is a mistake to put a hurt on the KB or any part of it. Did you ascertain how many carriers were involved in the Pearl Harbor strike? If so, could the augmented air groups of the Enterprise and the Lexington be used against them? I mean that the Wake fighters could deploy to the Big E and the Lexington has Wind Indicator dive bombers on board.

BTW, those Wind Indicators do have a nice range so they work nicely for Naval Search and ASW functions.

The aircraft numbers on the PH strike looked like the equivalent of three CVs, but the KB graphic shows CVLs as well. I think this mod has a lot of CVLs, including the ones John beefed up with armour that can handle 500 lb bombs and lots of AA.

I am playing Version 6 of this mod and I have noticed no extra CVL, the Shinano comes in as a Taiho class. There are some extra toys to play with but most come in a little later. Those CVLs may actually be tankers/oilers and the TF may actually be an escort TF. If so, unless he breaks those out his TF is slowed . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 740

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 11:43:26 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Almost done the first turn, but I have guests coming for dinner...so I won't finish till tomorrow.

A few things to tweak yet, and have yet to set the night time intercept of the KB by heavy cruisers. Probably a mistake this early...but it isn't a full KB.

For dinner or to dinner? There is a difference in meaning. I mean, you might have lobsters coming for dinner . . .

I don't think that it is a mistake to put a hurt on the KB or any part of it. Did you ascertain how many carriers were involved in the Pearl Harbor strike? If so, could the augmented air groups of the Enterprise and the Lexington be used against them? I mean that the Wake fighters could deploy to the Big E and the Lexington has Wind Indicator dive bombers on board.

BTW, those Wind Indicators do have a nice range so they work nicely for Naval Search and ASW functions.

The aircraft numbers on the PH strike looked like the equivalent of three CVs, but the KB graphic shows CVLs as well. I think this mod has a lot of CVLs, including the ones John beefed up with armour that can handle 500 lb bombs and lots of AA.

This is AndyMacs updated scenario 2....not Johns.

Japan gets in the neighborhood of 30+ ships, mostly destroyers in the 1943 time frame and some tankers, and some light cruisers, plus he either starts with or gets some Q ships which are simply incredibly strong. No word if the Germans show up...like a pocket battleship or submarines. Maybe even Italian subs. I don't know...

Plus it appears he gets more Tojo, and has the option of researching the Sam really early as it is an upgrade from the Zero line.

In addition there is a lot of scattered resource and light industry all over the map, and lots of new dot bases in Burma, China, a few in India, etc. etc.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/10/2020 11:44:34 PM >

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 11:46:37 PM

BBfanboy

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Thanks for the clarification on the mod. So no extra IJ CVLs at start?

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Post #: 742

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/10/2020 11:48:54 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Thanks for the clarification on the mod. So no extra IJ CVLs at start?

I seriously hope not.

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 12:56:10 AM

RangerJoe

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No extra CVLs at start. That is why I stated that those CVL may actually tankers/oilers since they can by misidentified in the game. That slows the entire task force making it more vulnerable.

Especially of those tankers/oilers use lots of OPs refueling DDs.

I only saw the one Tojo unit. The Tojo now comes in September not June and uses the Ha-34 engine with the Helen.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 2:44:34 AM

rustysi

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quote:

but it isn't a full KB.

Your opponent apparently hasn't read Shattered Sword. One of their conclusions was that Japan didn't learn the lesson that any target that was worth the effort was worth the whole KB.

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 1:26:29 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I only saw the one Tojo unit. The Tojo now comes in September not June and uses the Ha-34 engine with the Helen.

It is a goofy report....mainly because of the change of weather.

Morning Air attack on Hong Kong , at 77,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44 Tojo x 8

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-44 Tojo sweeping at 20000 feet

---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Hong Kong , at 77,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 5 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 8
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 12

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Hong Kong , at 77,61

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44 Tojo x 7

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-44 Tojo sweeping at 20000 feet

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/11/2020 1:27:19 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 746

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 1:36:18 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Plus it appears he gets more Tojo, and has the option of researching the Sam really early as it is an upgrade from the Zero line.

There is one experimental Tojo sentai at start, with exactly 9 planes and no replacements until the arrival of the airframe with the default date Sep-42

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 747

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 2:05:47 PM

Lowpe

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Pretty much finished the turn...

as always I try to do something offensive every day, and since this is 2 day turns, I will have to do more than one:

Concentrated 4E bombers and hitting a city.
Put seagulls on 2k naval attack.
Set up a CAP trap.
Patrolling with PT boats.
Dutch subs out patrolling offensively
Laying minefield
Halsey is hunting the KB with heavy cruiser force...they were expendable! Where is Swayback?
Moving on Foochow
Setting up future raids in Philippines and Pacific
Setting up and embarking the push on Wake, Midway, Marcus
Aggressively supplying Sumatra, Malaya, Burma
Naval bombarding Formosa

Probably forgot some stuff...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/11/2020 2:09:21 PM >

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Post #: 748

RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 2:19:04 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
I only saw the one Tojo unit. The Tojo now comes in September not June and uses the Ha-34 engine with the Helen.

Interesting choice in Scenario Design....I suppose it's more realistic, Tojo production didn't really get going until late 1942, and maybe June is too early in-game

Overall, it seems like the Ki-44 Tojo is much more useful in-game than the IJA thought it was IRL....they never produced more than 30 or 40 a month. For me it's the go-to IJA Fighter until the Frank (though Oscar still has a role)

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RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) - 8/11/2020 2:52:14 PM

RangerJoe

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Did you put your P-40Es on Naval Attack at 1000 feet to attack the Invasion Convoys for Luzon?

That could lead to a

on the Japanese side.

There is no USS Swayback here.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 750

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)