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CAP - 11/10/2020 7:53:53 PM   
boxof4

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/19/2016
Status: offline 		Is it necessary to split CAP above an air combat task force at both low and high level to cover for torpedo bombers? Also, in a ships information screen what does the ops number signify? Thank you.
Post #: 1
RE: CAP - 11/10/2020 9:38:13 PM   
RangerJoe


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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		No, but it can help especially if you have some inferior but more maneuverable fighters such as the Zero/Claude combination.

The ops number that you are probably referring to is how much activity that they have performed for that 12 hour phase. 1000 points is the maximum.

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Post #: 2
RE: CAP - 11/10/2020 11:09:44 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

No, but it can help especially if you have some inferior but more maneuverable fighters such as the Zero/Claude combination.

The ops number that you are probably referring to is how much activity that they have performed for that 12 hour phase. 1000 points is the maximum.

Much depends on the difference in altitude between the higher level bombers as they come in and the lower level that TBs and DBs drop at. So if all the enemy aircraft are at the same altitude during the approach and the CAP can get to them during that phase, all the enemy aircraft are eligible for attack. But when the attack starts to take place and the TBs and DBs change altitude, the CAP fighters may or may not be able to get down to their level in time if they started out high.

If you keep one set of CAP at lower level they are at a disadvantage against enemy fighters but may be well placed to disrupt the enemy bombers. There are no certainties so you must consider what the consequences might be when you decide where to place your fighters.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 3
RE: CAP - 11/10/2020 11:32:24 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline 		Do you guys know what happens if TB come in at a crazy high altitude like 25,000 feet? I am wondering if you need a high CAP to get those or if it is assumed that you instead need a low CAP to intercept them when they drop down for torpedo attack. If the former, seems like a way to game the system.

Edit: Reading BBfanboy's post prior to mine, it would seem that there are two phases to the intercept, the approach and the final run in. Is that correct?

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 11/10/2020 11:34:18 PM >

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Post #: 4
RE: CAP - 11/10/2020 11:47:51 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		The torpedo planes have to drop low to launch their torpedoes so a high CAP there is not needed. Early on when my small carriers are still using Claudes, I like to keep them around 5k or so to defend against the torpedo bombers. They work wonders on the Vildebeasts.

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Post #: 5
RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 1:14:37 AM   
Moltrey


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From: Virginia
Status: offline 		It is rather obvious, but keep in mind that you may have your "torpedo" bombers carrying bombs instead, so there is always that to consider as well.

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Post #: 6
RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 1:52:13 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If they are set to a naval attack with torpedoes but they don't have enough available, they will drop a full bomb load at the low naval altitude - even if they are 2Es.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 7
RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 3:21:43 PM   
Moltrey


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From: Virginia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If they are set to a naval attack with torpedoes but they don't have enough available, they will drop a full bomb load at the low naval altitude - even if they are 2Es.


Good to know RJ. Wondering if that tends to mean more overall hits with the bombs as they are much lower than "usual"? Well, assuming they make it past the fighter cover that is.

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Post #: 8
RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 6:15:11 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Do you guys know what happens if TB come in at a crazy high altitude like 25,000 feet? I am wondering if you need a high CAP to get those or if it is assumed that you instead need a low CAP to intercept them when they drop down for torpedo attack. If the former, seems like a way to game the system.

Edit: Reading BBfanboy's post prior to mine, it would seem that there are two phases to the intercept, the approach and the final run in. Is that correct?

If you set the altitude for the TBs to fly at 25,000 and they are capable of flying at that altitude, that will be their approach altitude. They will then descend to 200' to drop torpedoes. I am not sure of RJ's assertion that they will also drop to 200' with bombs. I always understood that once they were armed with bombs they would no longer be eligible to use the AI's torpedo attack profile.

Yes, there are three interception/AA phases: approach, attack, and egress.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/11/2020 11:08:25 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 6:56:34 PM   
castor troy


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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Do you guys know what happens if TB come in at a crazy high altitude like 25,000 feet? I am wondering if you need a high CAP to get those or if it is assumed that you instead need a low CAP to intercept them when they drop down for torpedo attack. If the former, seems like a way to game the system.

Edit: Reading BBfanboy's post prior to mine, it would seem that there are two phases to the intercept, the approach and the final run in. Is that correct?

If you set the altitude for the TBs to fly at 25,000 and they care capable of flying at that altitude, that will be their approach altitude. They will then descend to 200' to drop torpedoes. I am not sure of RJ's assertion that they will also drop to 200' with bombs. I always understood that once they were armed with bombs they would no longer be eligible to use the AI's torpedo attack profile.

Yes, there are three interception/AA phases: approach, attack, and egress.



Torpedo bombers with bombs never drop to 200ft for their attacks, they drop their bombs from the altitude you set them to.

The only difference I know of is the Grace but she isn't a torpedo bomber but a dive bomber that can carry a torpedo. So with bombs the Grace will do dive bombing and with a torp she will do a torp run.


< Message edited by castor troy -- 11/11/2020 6:57:29 PM >

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RE: CAP - 11/11/2020 8:35:38 PM   
Moltrey


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Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Ah, I see... I suppose it's just part of playing this game. Every year an updated manual gets further behind us in the rearview mirror.
So be it. SO MUCH TO KNOW!

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Post #: 11
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 4:07:03 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Do you guys know what happens if TB come in at a crazy high altitude like 25,000 feet? I am wondering if you need a high CAP to get those or if it is assumed that you instead need a low CAP to intercept them when they drop down for torpedo attack. If the former, seems like a way to game the system.

Edit: Reading BBfanboy's post prior to mine, it would seem that there are two phases to the intercept, the approach and the final run in. Is that correct?


No, you don't get two bites at the cherry.

Aircraft which have an approach altitude but use a different, hard coded, attack run in altitude, can be intercepted by CAP at a point between the approach and attack altitudes inclusive. Various under the hood factors determine the interception point.

Alfred

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 12
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 7:29:54 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Do you guys know what happens if TB come in at a crazy high altitude like 25,000 feet? I am wondering if you need a high CAP to get those or if it is assumed that you instead need a low CAP to intercept them when they drop down for torpedo attack. If the former, seems like a way to game the system.

Edit: Reading BBfanboy's post prior to mine, it would seem that there are two phases to the intercept, the approach and the final run in. Is that correct?


No, you don't get two bites at the cherry.

Aircraft which have an approach altitude but use a different, hard coded, attack run in altitude, can be intercepted by CAP at a point between the approach and attack altitudes inclusive. Various under the hood factors determine the interception point.

Alfred



Good to know, thanks Alfred.

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Post #: 13
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 7:54:06 PM   
Leandros


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Joined: 3/5/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: boxof4

...ships information screen what does the ops number signify? Thank you.

A practical example.: If you execute a refuelling you shall usually be debited with 250 points meaning that you have used up half of the first part of the day's activity. In other words, a ship shall only be able to sail half the distance in that period. This is also reflected on the hex number indicator in the upper part of the screen. You shall see that the number is reduced, say from 4 to 2 (the second hex number).
This is important to keep track on as you otherwise can end up high and dry in the middle of the ocean when you really wanted to be back in a port under cover.

The number adds up if you replenish ammunition , etc., too. In the end you may have used the whole day's quota of movement.

Fred


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River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 14
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 8:13:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		There are 1000 ops points per phase, not 500. That is, if I remember correctly.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 15
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 8:37:40 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are 1000 ops points per phase, not 500. That is, if I remember correctly.

It is possible but I have noted that 250 points reduces one of the legs in.....half...

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 16
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 9:43:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are 1000 ops points per phase, not 500. That is, if I remember correctly.

That is correct, 1000 for night phase, 1000 for day phase.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 17
RE: CAP - 11/12/2020 9:46:22 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are 1000 ops points per phase, not 500. That is, if I remember correctly.

It is possible but I have noted that 250 points reduces one of the legs in.....half...

Fred

You need to look at every ship in the TF. It may be that all the DDs that refueled from the Carriers or other large ships expended 250 ops points each, while the ones providing the fuel expended 500 ops points because they refueled multiple smaller ships.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 18
RE: CAP - 11/13/2020 9:04:03 AM   
Leandros


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Thank you! Anything else would have been too simple in this game....

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 19
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