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[Answered] Play mode vs Scen edit mode

 
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[Answered] Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 1:51:56 PM   
Theokarl1980

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 6/1/2020
Status: offline 		Hi
I expected that the play mode designed to give .save scenario file to a gamer so that he only could play it and cannot edit the scenario file. But now, anyone can load a save file in Scen edit mode in game!
Why?

< Message edited by Rory Noonan -- 1/31/2021 11:53:29 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 2:21:58 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I guess my answer is another question. Why not?

(in reply to Theokarl1980)
Post #: 2
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 5:37:16 PM   
Theokarl1980

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 6/1/2020
Status: offline 		Becuz it's possible that gamer will cheat and will differ scenario.
So what was purpose of design of .save format? I think .save scenario should not be edited

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 3
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 5:46:48 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980

Becuz it's possible that gamer will cheat and will differ scenario.
So what was purpose of design of .save format? I think .save scenario should not be edited

Then don't edit them.

-C

(in reply to Theokarl1980)
Post #: 4
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 6:11:14 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I don't understand reason for the question. How does someone editing a save effect you, as a player?

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 5
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 6:19:42 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Not being able to open save files in ScenEdit would lead to situations like this:

* You finish the scenario and you want to see how the situation looks at the end from the enemy's POV (maybe you were soundly defeated and want to see when he detected you, or want to see where's that elusive mobile Scud launcher or submarine that you hunted for days and didn't find). You can only switch to the enemy side in ScenEdit. Bang, you can't.

* You post about a possible bug. The devs and other users request a save file. You post it, but in order to fully understand what is going on you need to see the situation from all sides (or even the ground truth). Bang, you can't do that unless you open the scenario in ScenEdit.

Others can probably think additional cases where blocking ScenEdit from opening .save files would be a significant handicap for little benefit.

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(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 6
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 6:30:42 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline 		One MAJOR difference between the two is often not even known, or rarely talked about.

Many designers use a feature that makes use of the "Chance of Appearance." It is found via the Scenario Editor/Unit Orders/Scenario Editor/Chance of Appearance. It is a really nifty feature, and it keeps the scenario fresh. What it does is allows the designer to place a unit on the map, and give it a chance of appearance WHEN THE SCENARIO IS STARTED. It DOES NOT WORK when starting the game in the scenario mode. So, you could place a ballistic missile launcher, if you like, and then give it a percentage of its appearance. That percentage will kick in at the beginning of the scenario. You won't know if the unit is there or not without playing it from the actual game. If you play it from the Scenario Editor then it is ALWAYS present. This is a really neat feature.

As I said, it makes the games really fun because, even if you have played the scenario 100 times in the past, you never know if it is going to be there the next time that you play.

Doug

(in reply to Theokarl1980)
Post #: 7
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 6:38:08 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am not sure that's true from a .save. If its not there at the beginning of the scenario in the regular game, it won't be there in a save opened in the editor.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 8
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 8:27:36 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline 		The "Open .save in editor" option definitely helps scenario creators debug during development. I cannot think of any reason why this capability should not exist.

_____________________________

“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

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~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 9
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 1/29/2021 11:42:20 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline 		Only thing I can think of is PBEM but beyond that tinkering with .sav files is pretty common.

(in reply to stilesw)
Post #: 10
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 2/1/2021 11:26:07 AM   
p1t1o

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/6/2015
Status: offline 		The only person you'd be cheating would be yourself, and it is your right to do so.

On many other forums the question is rather "Help how do I edit a save!"

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 11
RE: Play mode vs Scen edit mode - 2/1/2021 9:16:32 PM   
musurca

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 7/16/2020
Status: offline
quote:

Only thing I can think of is PBEM but beyond that tinkering with .sav files is pretty common.


I've written some anti-cheat code into IKE, the framework I wrote to make PBEM scenarios, which uses a complicated scheme based on scenario time and hashed player passwords to discourage tinkering with the other person's forces. Of course, it isn't fool-proof, and could probably be defeated by a sufficiently technical and motivated cheater-- one still has to trust the other player somewhat.

One feature I might suggest is a flag discoverable via Lua (e.g. VP_InScenEditMode()) to determine whether the user is in the scenario editor. One could, as the author of a PBEM scenario, prevent 'peeking' until the scenario is over.

I do, however, agree that for the solo player, it's great to have the freedom to be able to edit the scenario when necessary—particularly if there's a bug in the scenario code, and you want to fix it without having to restart the entire game.

< Message edited by musurca -- 2/1/2021 9:21:57 PM >

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 12
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