Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

Ok, thanks. He shot them all down in 1 mission it seems? Quite impressive!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

Hi,

Your correct. "credited", also known as "confirmed" kills do not necessarily equate to actual kills. It just means the org the pilot was part of was validated by his org, at the time.

Post war research thus gets a lot of attention. because its convenient for I'm right, no IM right arguments for the credibility factor on forums as this. Just the way it is. The source most often used for O'Hare's act of valor (which it was IMO whether you credit him with 0, 3 or 5 kills) is Lundstrom. At this point his work is dated but I think still valid. I only mention dated as an irony given my shall we say, long history on forums. Often the year an author posted info was used as a weapon in such threads in the past.

What really makes for a noodle of a situation is that different nations credit kills based on slightly but relevently different criteria. For example, the Japanese considered any loss during a mission a "combat loss". Not so in other orgs. This can be important. aka the "op loss" vs a "combat loss". Personally, I have also noted the special circumstances that involve geographical situations such as all water operations, or jungle vs developed. etc.

According to Lundstrom's account, O'Hare definitively shot down 3 bombers and damaged 2 more. Even re-visiting his work. (yeah I own it), there's room for confusion because simple # counts don't completely match up. Part of the reason for this is multi participant actions against the same target. So who do you credit? the AA gunners, the SBD gunners involved? Its a quandary. Ultimately IMO it doesn't take away from his accomplishment. the MISSION....not the kill count is what matters. Lexington's pilots did their job that day. Results are all that matter. Lex survived.

However one wants to interpret the available account(s), and factoring in other more mundane facts...(positioning.......opportunity.....lack of fighter escort......the fact the bombers didn't have their preferred weapon), doesn't detract from not only O'Hare's accomplishment but the rest of his fellow pilots. It was......a sobering experience for the Japanese. This operation tends to lack attention due to more famous encounters but is worth study.

anyway. Cheers. As long as the history is remembered. Thats what is important these days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.
If the aircraft do not make it back to their airfield due to damage, that is a kill. Since he damaged one that another pilot shot down, then that is 5.5 kills in a single mission.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.
Why don't you look up the armament of the Betty and prove me wrong? Or are you stating that HE 20mm shells don't explode?

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.
I never stated the Butch lived in Chicago, I was referring to his father. Get your facts straight.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

"At 16:49, the Lexington's radar picked up a second formation of Bettys from the 4th Kōkūtai's 1st Chutai, only 12 miles out, on the disengaged side of the task force. With the majority of VF-3 still chasing the 2nd Chutai, only O'Hare and Dufilho were available to intercept. Flying eastward they arrived 1,500 feet (460 m) above the Bettys 9 miles (14 km) out at 17:00. Dufilho's guns jammed, leaving only O'Hare to protect the carrier. The enemy was in a V-of-Vs formation, flying very close together and using their rear-facing 20mm cannon for mutual protection. O'Hare's Wildcat, armed with four 50-caliber guns, with 450 rounds per gun, giving him about ten, 3-second bursts. "

Sieg Heil und Sieg zum Frauleins!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

Ok, thanks. He shot them all down in 1 mission it seems? Quite impressive!

Actually it was so impressive that it didn't happen. Ranger Joe's specialty is posting propaganda and lies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.
If the aircraft do not make it back to their airfield due to damage, that is a kill. Since he damaged one that another pilot shot down, then that is 5.5 kills in a single mission.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.
Why don't you look up the armament of the Betty and prove me wrong? Or are you stating that HE 20mm shells don't explode?

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.
I never stated the Butch lived in Chicago, I was referring to his father. Get your facts straight.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

"At 16:49, the Lexington's radar picked up a second formation of Bettys from the 4th Kōkūtai's 1st Chutai, only 12 miles out, on the disengaged side of the task force. With the majority of VF-3 still chasing the 2nd Chutai, only O'Hare and Dufilho were available to intercept. Flying eastward they arrived 1,500 feet (460 m) above the Bettys 9 miles (14 km) out at 17:00. Dufilho's guns jammed, leaving only O'Hare to protect the carrier. The enemy was in a V-of-Vs formation, flying very close together and using their rear-facing 20mm cannon for mutual protection. O'Hare's Wildcat, armed with four 50-caliber guns, with 450 rounds per gun, giving him about ten, 3-second bursts. "

Sieg Heil und Sieg zum Frauleins!

"Sieg Heil" is a salute to Hitler. Why does Matrix tolerate Ranger Joe, a virulent anti-Semite?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.
If the aircraft do not make it back to their airfield due to damage, that is a kill. Since he damaged one that another pilot shot down, then that is 5.5 kills in a single mission.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.
Why don't you look up the armament of the Betty and prove me wrong? Or are you stating that HE 20mm shells don't explode?

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.
I never stated the Butch lived in Chicago, I was referring to his father. Get your facts straight.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

"At 16:49, the Lexington's radar picked up a second formation of Bettys from the 4th Kōkūtai's 1st Chutai, only 12 miles out, on the disengaged side of the task force. With the majority of VF-3 still chasing the 2nd Chutai, only O'Hare and Dufilho were available to intercept. Flying eastward they arrived 1,500 feet (460 m) above the Bettys 9 miles (14 km) out at 17:00. Dufilho's guns jammed, leaving only O'Hare to protect the carrier. The enemy was in a V-of-Vs formation, flying very close together and using their rear-facing 20mm cannon for mutual protection. O'Hare's Wildcat, armed with four 50-caliber guns, with 450 rounds per gun, giving him about ten, 3-second bursts. "

Sieg Heil und Sieg zum Frauleins!

"Sieg Heil" is a salute to Hitler. Why does Matrix tolerate Ranger Joe, a virulent anti-Semite?

You must be an expert on saluting Hitler. As far as the latter goes, why don't you ask them?

Hagel zum Frauleins!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.
If the aircraft do not make it back to their airfield due to damage, that is a kill. Since he damaged one that another pilot shot down, then that is 5.5 kills in a single mission.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.
Why don't you look up the armament of the Betty and prove me wrong? Or are you stating that HE 20mm shells don't explode?

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.
I never stated the Butch lived in Chicago, I was referring to his father. Get your facts straight.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

"At 16:49, the Lexington's radar picked up a second formation of Bettys from the 4th Kōkūtai's 1st Chutai, only 12 miles out, on the disengaged side of the task force. With the majority of VF-3 still chasing the 2nd Chutai, only O'Hare and Dufilho were available to intercept. Flying eastward they arrived 1,500 feet (460 m) above the Bettys 9 miles (14 km) out at 17:00. Dufilho's guns jammed, leaving only O'Hare to protect the carrier. The enemy was in a V-of-Vs formation, flying very close together and using their rear-facing 20mm cannon for mutual protection. O'Hare's Wildcat, armed with four 50-caliber guns, with 450 rounds per gun, giving him about ten, 3-second bursts. "

Sieg Heil und Sieg zum Frauleins!

"Sieg Heil" is a salute to Hitler. Why does Matrix tolerate Ranger Joe, a virulent anti-Semite?

You must be an expert on saluting Hitler. As far as the latter goes, why don't you ask them?

Hagel zum Frauleins!

Dear Mr. Commie, with the whore commie avatar well known for spreading her legs for all of STAVKA...you salute Hitler. Why Matrix tolerates your pro-Nazi comment makes me wonder about Matrix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Guys,

Can’t you stay civil and polite, at least ? And drop the nazi and commie accusations ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

RJ, please leave this troll alone. Interacting with him only makes you look bad as well. Use the very handy Ignore button on him. Click the little green circle next to one of his posts and he no longer exists!

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

I think losses suffered during operation Cottage gives a very good impression of how easy friendly-fire incidents occur and how costly they are.


Never heard of this Butch fellow, but apparently he was caught in a cross-fire. Both sides were responsible for the kill. It is the sad reality of war.

He was credited for shooting down 5 Betty bombers by himself. Three definitely crashed because of his actions, one plane was so damaged that the pilot tried to crash it onto a ship but failed, while another one did not make back to the airfield and crashed in Simpson Harbor, a flooded caldera of a rather large volcano which is at Rabaul. I do believe that he then finished smoking his cigarette that he had just started on. He had 4 fifty caliber (12.7 mm) machine guns with 450 rounds each. His wingman airplane guns jammed and would not fire.

He used deflection shooting, that is coming at the side and I believe that he was also higher than his targets. Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode, ruining their aircraft and sometimes their whole day.

The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years. One of his clients had a little difficulty with the law, the client's name was Al Capone.

1. Credited is not the same as actual. 3 Actualy.
If the aircraft do not make it back to their airfield due to damage, that is a kill. Since he damaged one that another pilot shot down, then that is 5.5 kills in a single mission.

2. " Pilots who attacked from the rear sometimes ran into 20mm shells which would then explode"...pure speculation, which apparently is your specialty.
Why don't you look up the armament of the Betty and prove me wrong? Or are you stating that HE 20mm shells don't explode?

3."The primary Chicago, Illinois, USA, commercial airport is named after him even though he grew up elsewhere but his father worked in Chicago for a few years." FACT: He never lived in Chiraq, I mean Chicago.
I never stated the Butch lived in Chicago, I was referring to his father. Get your facts straight.

I get a kick out of your posts. So dramatic.

"At 16:49, the Lexington's radar picked up a second formation of Bettys from the 4th Kōkūtai's 1st Chutai, only 12 miles out, on the disengaged side of the task force. With the majority of VF-3 still chasing the 2nd Chutai, only O'Hare and Dufilho were available to intercept. Flying eastward they arrived 1,500 feet (460 m) above the Bettys 9 miles (14 km) out at 17:00. Dufilho's guns jammed, leaving only O'Hare to protect the carrier. The enemy was in a V-of-Vs formation, flying very close together and using their rear-facing 20mm cannon for mutual protection. O'Hare's Wildcat, armed with four 50-caliber guns, with 450 rounds per gun, giving him about ten, 3-second bursts. "

Sieg Heil und Sieg zum Frauleins!

"Sieg Heil" is a salute to Hitler. Why does Matrix tolerate Ranger Joe, a virulent anti-Semite?

You must be an expert on saluting Hitler. As far as the latter goes, why don't you ask them?

Hagel zum Frauleins!

Dear Mr. Commie, with the whore commie avatar well known for spreading her legs for all of STAVKA...you salute Hitler. Why Matrix tolerates your pro-Nazi comment makes me wonder about Matrix.

You know that she was a whore? Please provide a link or better yet, post the pictures that you have with her and you.

So you call me a Commie and a Nazi in the same breath.

Hagel zum Lauri Allan Törni! Iron Cross, 2nd class and others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Guys,

Can’t you stay civil and polite, at least ? And drop the nazi and commie accusations ?

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ORIGINAL: Dan1977

Rusty & RJ,
Can you both stop this bad line of back & forth? I doubt either of you is going to win the other over with your "arguments", please agree to disagree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

RJ, please leave this troll alone. Interacting with him only makes you look bad as well. Use the very handy Ignore button on him. Click the little green circle next to one of his posts and he no longer exists!

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hail to this unit, which was at Dachau for a time:

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hail to this unit, which was at Dachau for a time:

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

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ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, when it comes to Törni, he was adamant anti-bolshevik...but Nazi he was not, while even doing stint in Waffen-SS.

sight...

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

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ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, when it comes to Törni, he was adamant anti-bolshevik...but Nazi he was not, while even doing stint in Waffen-SS.

sight...

Many Waffen-SS soldiers had not much to do with being Nazis at all, there is a lot of post-war propaganda to that effect, I guess especially so in the US.
In Molenschot near where I live, an extremely poor village during and before world war 2, there were 3 18-year-old kids from a family called Kreeft, (dutch for lobster) that joined the Waffen-SS as well. The sole reason being, there was literally not enough food on the table to feed everyone, families were large back then, 8-12 children. Life was unimaginably more harder then it is today.

1 returned after the war, 2 were missing and presumed dead. These 2 were however actually found in the 80's in the Soviet Union. After captivity, remembering the extreme poverty in the Netherlands, they each married a soviet woman and choose to stay in the Soviet Union for the rest of their lives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, when it comes to Törni, he was adamant anti-bolshevik...but Nazi he was not, while even doing stint in Waffen-SS.

He didn't like German formal military discipline and there were no vacancies in Wiking division's Finnish battalion that time, so he returned to Finland. So he never really served in Wiking division.

But to original topic...it is kind of moot point if someone is hit into head with 7.7mm or .50...latter is just more messy sight...

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, when it comes to Törni, he was adamant anti-bolshevik...but Nazi he was not, while even doing stint in Waffen-SS.

He didn't like German formal military discipline and there were no vacancies in Wiking division's Finnish battalion that time, so he returned to Finland. So he never really served in Wiking division.

But to original topic...it is kind of moot point if someone is hit into head with 7.7mm or .50...latter is just more messy sight...

Lauri Allan Törni changed his name to Larry Alan Thorne and joined the US Army. He taught some things to his fellow soldiers. While he was a Sissi in the Finnish Army he became a Green Beret. (I would not ask him for cookies . . . ) He was awarded a Bronze Star with a "V" device, a Purple Heart with a cluster, and postumously the Legion of Merit and the Distinguished Flying Cross while also being promoted to major.

His home was stolen by the Soviet Union when they took Viipuri.

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, when it comes to Törni, he was adamant anti-bolshevik...but Nazi he was not, while even doing stint in Waffen-SS.

He didn't like German formal military discipline and there were no vacancies in Wiking division's Finnish battalion that time, so he returned to Finland. So he never really served in Wiking division.

But to original topic...it is kind of moot point if someone is hit into head with 7.7mm or .50...latter is just more messy sight...

Lauri Allan Törni changed his name to Larry Alan Thorne and joined the US Army. He taught some things to his fellow soldiers. While he was a Sissi in the Finnish Army he became a Green Beret. (I would not ask him for cookies . . . ) He was awarded a Bronze Star with a "V" device, a Purple Heart with a cluster, and postumously the Legion of Merit and the Distinguished Flying Cross while also being promoted to major.

His home was stolen by the Soviet Union when they took Viipuri.

He did manage to get convicted of treason too, understandably government had dim view about someone serving for country we happened to be war with...Germany that is.

He had gone to Germany to get training for possible resistance movement if Soviets had occupied Finland.

Very interesting person indeed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hagel zu den Donnervögeln!