RE: Donbass Conflict heating up????

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up????

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 1:45:11 PM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DESRON420

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

My PERSONAL estimation of the situation is...

It's just Ukraine. There is no article. Ukraine.

Yup, and that's why they were granted full membership. Georgia as well...

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(in reply to DESRON420)

Post #: 91

RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 3:58:38 PM

RoryAndersonCDT

Posts: 1830
Joined: 6/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

ORIGINAL: DESRON420

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

My PERSONAL estimation of the situation is...

It's just Ukraine. There is no article. Ukraine.

Yup, and that's why they were granted full membership. Georgia as well...

This is an interesting miscommunication, DESRON420 is objecting to the use of "the Ukraine" rather than "Ukraine". The article he is referring to is the word "the".
However you are interpreting it as referring to the articles in the North Atlantic treaty, eg Article 5.

I only mention this because I thought this was a neat example of miscommunication, because interpreting DESRON420's post as referring to Article 5 actually is quite a valid interpretation.

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(in reply to BeirutDude)

Post #: 92

RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 6:23:09 PM

Scorpion86

Posts: 239
Joined: 2/26/2017
Status: offline

Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*

(in reply to RoryAndersonCDT)

Post #: 93

RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/13/2021 12:39:38 PM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86

Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*

Interesting. So when I was in Lebanon I was corrected by Lebanese (multiple times) to call it "The Lebanon." Different cultures...

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(in reply to Scorpion86)

Post #: 94

RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/13/2021 1:45:31 PM

maverick3320

Posts: 146
Joined: 2/14/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86

Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*

Interesting. So when I was in Lebanon I was corrected by Lebanese (multiple times) to call it "The Lebanon." Different cultures...