firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions?

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firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/8/2021 11:06:22 PM

misterprimus

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/12/2021
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When I find a (significantly) better candidate for a position on my leaders list, either through bureaucratic cards or random events/decisions, I fire the worst of my leaders (move them to reserve pool via "relieve - no job") and replace them the following turn with my new hire. But I often have reserve pool members who hate me (obviously) and often they show their true colors and rebel. How do I prevent this?

1. First of all, why are they able to do this? Reserve pool members hold no position of power so should be no more capable or raising a rebellion than any ordinary person in my nation.

2. Is there some way to get rid of unwanted leaders besides relieving them with no job to the reserve pool and then waiting for a zero/bronze/silver/golden retirement card? Those cards are expensive, especially in the early game! Can't I just fire these people out of the reserve pool, too?

Post #: 1

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/8/2021 11:18:28 PM

GuardsmanGary

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/4/2020
Status: offline

You can promise them another job to lessen the relations hit and then just fire them anyways, play threaten leader cards or go down the heart profile to increase leader loyalty, and/or pay your reserve pool to keep their happiness up. If they have stolen credits but have too much seniority that a zero or bronze retirement card won't work you can investigate them to lower their seniority and recover some stolen credits.

And of course with enough autocracy profile you can unlock an assassination stratagem to "remove" unwanted leaders. This is played by your secret service council and requires high personal combat skill.

< Message edited by GuardsmanGary -- 4/8/2021 11:19:18 PM >

(in reply to misterprimus)

Post #: 2

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/8/2021 11:39:42 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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You will not get rid of a leader without playing a Stratagem or them Rebelling. Stratagems are integral part of managing leaders in any direciton.

The only question is wich Stratagem and how much manpower the have when rebelling.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 4/8/2021 11:40:19 PM >

(in reply to GuardsmanGary)

Post #: 3

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 1:23:18 AM

misterprimus

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/12/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

You will not get rid of a leader without playing a Stratagem or them Rebelling. Stratagems are integral part of managing leaders in any direciton.

The only question is wich Stratagem and how much manpower the have when rebelling.

Where does the manpower come from? Do they take over a random unit of soldiers, random unit of militia, or does they "spawn" their own brigade unit at the expense of some of your population?

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 4

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 2:10:46 AM

Pratapon51

Posts: 100
Joined: 6/28/2020
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Leader-based rebellions, unlike Independence, appear to spawn their militiamen out of thin air.

From what I remember, it seems rebelling Governors have a chance to flip units in their Zone Cities and rebelling OHQ Commanders can flip their subunits. Reserve Leaders and Directors appear to rely only on a few lumped spawns of Rifle and MG militia, making them more of a nuisance than a threat if you can hit them with armored vehicles or higher-tech infantry. (I have never let SHQ Commander relations deteriorate to the point of rebellion, so I do not know what happens there.

)

(in reply to misterprimus)

Post #: 5

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 8:21:49 AM

zgrssd

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Apparently OHQ commanders can flip some subunits - the lower the morale, the more units they can flip (given that Soldier Morale is a relevant factor in OHQ Comamnder Morale, this also makes them more likely to rebel).

But the rest might be from the population, from the free folk or just spawned into the game from nowhere.

(in reply to Pratapon51)

Post #: 6

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 11:53:47 AM

Uemon

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/11/2020
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I just keep enough garrison of mobile units to quickly surround or murder any rebels, a single tank battalion and a couple of motorized infantry does the trick in 90% of cases. Who cares, let them rebel, all it does is gives you more experience anyway.

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Post #: 7

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 2:54:58 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

I just keep enough garrison of mobile units to quickly surround or murder any rebels, a single tank battalion and a couple of motorized infantry does the trick in 90% of cases. Who cares, let them rebel, all it does is gives you more experience anyway.

Those standing forces cost quite a bit of food, manpower and money. Plus fuel to actually use them.
And the enemy might still cause danger in your zones, resulting in more issues.

It is no doubt possible to deal with them this way, but it is not without effort.

(in reply to Uemon)

Post #: 8

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 6:34:49 PM

Uemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

I just keep enough garrison of mobile units to quickly surround or murder any rebels, a single tank battalion and a couple of motorized infantry does the trick in 90% of cases. Who cares, let them rebel, all it does is gives you more experience anyway.

Those standing forces cost quite a bit of food, manpower and money. Plus fuel to actually use them.
And the enemy might still cause danger in your zones, resulting in more issues.

It is no doubt possible to deal with them this way, but it is not without effort.

By the time you can get those cards to reliably get rid of potential revolters, they really dont. Its 4000 manpower. You should always have garrison in your cities anyway.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 9

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 7:42:08 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

I just keep enough garrison of mobile units to quickly surround or murder any rebels, a single tank battalion and a couple of motorized infantry does the trick in 90% of cases. Who cares, let them rebel, all it does is gives you more experience anyway.

Those standing forces cost quite a bit of food, manpower and money. Plus fuel to actually use them.
And the enemy might still cause danger in your zones, resulting in more issues.

It is no doubt possible to deal with them this way, but it is not without effort.

By the time you can get those cards to reliably get rid of potential revolters, they really dont. Its 4000 manpower. You should always have garrison in your cities anyway.

Why do people keep saying getting the Retirement cards is hard? They are pretty cheap.
And if anything beyond the Zero one fails, you do not have to pay anything and damage the targets seniority (making them easier to get rid off later).

(in reply to Uemon)

Post #: 10

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 8:09:20 PM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Why do people keep saying getting the Retirement cards is hard? They are pretty cheap.
And if anything beyond the Zero one fails, you do not have to pay anything and damage the targets seniority (making them easier to get rid off later).

Maybe those people don't set their interior counselors' priorities more to HR after they get their finances sorted out? Also please check DM folder.

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 11

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/9/2021 8:46:59 PM

Uemon

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Joined: 12/11/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uemon

I just keep enough garrison of mobile units to quickly surround or murder any rebels, a single tank battalion and a couple of motorized infantry does the trick in 90% of cases. Who cares, let them rebel, all it does is gives you more experience anyway.

Those standing forces cost quite a bit of food, manpower and money. Plus fuel to actually use them.
And the enemy might still cause danger in your zones, resulting in more issues.

It is no doubt possible to deal with them this way, but it is not without effort.

By the time you can get those cards to reliably get rid of potential revolters, they really dont. Its 4000 manpower. You should always have garrison in your cities anyway.

Why do people keep saying getting the Retirement cards is hard? They are pretty cheap.
And if anything beyond the Zero one fails, you do not have to pay anything and damage the targets seniority (making them easier to get rid off later).

Its very simple to understand. You can set up garrisons from turn one. You cant get those cards from turn one. They take investment. Garrisons do not. I dont understand why we need to even debate this. You should do both eventually.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 12

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/11/2021 3:07:57 AM

mek42

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Upstate (Central) NY
Status: offline

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested relieving them to "other job", giving them an OHQ and giving them extensive on-the-job training for the Lead from the Front skill.

You'll either get rid of them or make a useful commander.

(in reply to Uemon)

Post #: 13

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 1:06:32 AM

misterprimus

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/12/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mek42

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested relieving them to "other job", giving them an OHQ and giving them extensive on-the-job training for the Lead from the Front skill.

You'll either get rid of them or make a useful commander.

Yes that did cross my mind when a few days ago I head a recently appointed meh OHQ leader KIAed, but it just doesn't seem right. Why are reserve pool people essentially highly paid lifetime appointments? These guys are like Supreme Court members! Even real life politicians typically can get canned or have their opponent elected.

(in reply to mek42)

Post #: 14

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 6:07:15 AM

newageofpower

Posts: 261
Joined: 12/3/2020
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4 ways to get rid of leaders permanently:
-Retirement Stratagems. Your Interior Councilor gets you these.
-Assassination. You need high Autocracy and a Secret Service Councilor with Personal Combat (or an Advisor with it)
-If they get killed in Combat. Assign to a light infantry OOB and have the HQ unit do a suicidal assault, they're likely to die (unless they have exceptional Personal Combat)
-Old Age Self-Retirement. Probability occurs after Age 60, and increases if their ambition and their STR stat is low.

(in reply to misterprimus)

Post #: 15

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 11:13:50 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mek42

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested relieving them to "other job", giving them an OHQ and giving them extensive on-the-job training for the Lead from the Front skill.

You'll either get rid of them or make a useful commander.

Yes that did cross my mind when a few days ago I head a recently appointed meh OHQ leader KIAed, but it just doesn't seem right. Why are reserve pool people essentially highly paid lifetime appointments? These guys are like Supreme Court members! Even real life politicians typically can get canned or have their opponent elected.

Just because you removed them from the Model Council Leader position, does not mean they stop existing.
They still have political pull (if anything they now got more)
They still have a agenda
They still have faction association

Everyone in your Reserve Pool is a person of note on the national level.
Assasination Card kills them.
Retirement card retires them and makes sure they stay retired.

(in reply to misterprimus)

Post #: 16

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 11:35:04 AM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

In the latest manual version, autocracy isn't necessary for Assassinate Leader stratagem anymore. When was this changed?

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Post #: 17

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 2:03:07 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maerchen

In the latest manual version, autocracy isn't necessary for Assassinate Leader stratagem anymore. When was this changed?

According to the Ingame Stratagem Encyclopedia, it is still needs the Regime Feat Submission (50 Autocracy).

(in reply to Maerchen)

Post #: 18

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/12/2021 2:29:36 PM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

I wrote a bug report.

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Post #: 19

RE: firing reserve pool members / preventing rebellions? - 4/13/2021 1:19:36 AM

Maerchen

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From: Germany
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