Italy - entry to war

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Italy - entry to war - 5/28/2021 1:03:55 PM

getsome123

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Joined: 3/11/2020
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A comparison of Italy when playing AI and Human.

When playing Axis and italy during AI game, you get to experience the North African campaign and naval battles.

My experience when playing human, is the allied player moves a large amount of naval ships around italy and upon Italy's entry, destroys as much as they can and blockades north africa.

This can be accelerated by moving french troops out of north africa for the battle of france, which again is in the allied advantage.

in my limited experience of the games, perhaps the following could balance this action.

supply for allied shipping in the mediterranean be reduced - so that ships can't wait indefinitely for italy to enter war and if they do they will have zero supply and not be affective?

The presence of fleets in the med, will cause italy to reduce % for entry to war (allowing for the italian fleet and aa and fighters to be made ready before joining the war?_.

< Message edited by getsome123 -- 5/28/2021 1:05:50 PM >

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 5/31/2021 8:34:57 PM

BillRunacre

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Is this still the case following recent changes to penalize Allied massing of naval units in the Med prior to Italy's war entrance?

Admittedly those changes won't penalize such an action after Italy has joined the Axis.

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 6/1/2021 3:08:36 AM

El_Condoro

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There are a few scripts in mobilization2.txt regarding Italian mobilization that I don't understand:

1. If 2 Allied amphibs are within 30 hexes or 7 Allied naval units are within 18 hexes of Syracuse, there is a 33% chance per turn (Allied and Axis) that Italy will move 15-25% towards the Axis. On average, that is about 6-7% per turn (1/3 of 20). That's a fairly significant shift unless the Axis player gets some really bad luck.
2. This one I don't understand: The US will move 5-7% towards the Axis if the same conditions are met BUT the condition is not Germany is mobilized (as above) but that Italy is mobilized. If Italy and the UK are at war, why would the US move towards the Axis if the Allies want to invade Italy? I think this one should occur if Germany is mobilized but not Italy. [Edit: I got this wrong - triggers if Italy is NOT yet mobilized]
3. This accounts for the advantage of moving the French forces out of NA to defend France: Italy moves 1-2% (only) towards the Axis (40% chance) if any of Gibraltar, Cairo, Tunis or Damascus are abandoned. That means ALL of those sites can be abandoned and there is still only a 40% chance of Italy responding and only 1-2% per turn. That seems too little of a response to me. Given that they have not mobilized at this point, they can't even DoW the Allies to take advantage of the situation. That said, if the UK abandons Gibraltar, it has a dramatic effect (8-12%) on Spanish mobilization.

Are there other scripts that affect Italy that I am missing?

< Message edited by El_Condoro -- 6/1/2021 9:45:11 AM >

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 6/1/2021 9:03:27 PM

BillRunacre

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These are the ones relating to Allied movements in the Med that can trigger an earlier Italian mobilization.

I think you're right with 3. that the effect on Italy of the Allies moving units isn't very significant, maybe we could increase that, although the per turn loss of 500 NM points to France or the UK (depending on what is abandoned) is a bit more noticeable.

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 6/1/2021 9:36:38 PM

El_Condoro

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Yes, that NM loss will add up fairly quickly. I don't have enough expereince with the effects of abandoning those Med locations to say whether the NM trade-off is worth the extra units to defend France - perhaps others have. Personally, I would like Italy to get a chance at an earlier entry into the war and increased mob if they are abandoned.

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 6/2/2021 8:04:09 PM

PvtBenjamin

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Italy entering earlier only helps the allies if they are going for suicidal attacks on the Italian Navy no?.

There are ways to defend against it (Maritime time). If the French & Brits are too aggressive Sealion & Algeria could be open.

I've always been a proponent of penalties if large amounts of a Navy leave the homeland. Like all Italy in the Atlantic (unless they control from Syria to Algeria) or a large percent of Brit Navy in Med, German Navy in Med etc.

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RE: Italy - entry to war - 6/2/2021 9:50:59 PM

El_Condoro

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Yes, defending against the attacks on the RM can be done but my question is why Italy doesn't react more to the Allied abandonment of the Med - they barely move. If they did mobilize more and earlier, they would get more MPPs each turn and perhaps could mount an attempt to take the abandoned sites.

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