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Eastern Front 1915 - 7/13/2021 11:53:32 AM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi,
as some of you know I am testing my 1920 MOD together with Mike and Dan, with support of Hubert and Bill. I think in one-two months we can make it playable, and available for everyone who wish to play.

In meanwhile, I took interest in WWI eastern front. I am currently reading a book by polish professor about second Masurian Lakes battle - February 1915. I am thinking after completing MOD for 1920, to modify the map I made and use it to make operational - divisional scale. I can use it for events since winter 1915 (because map I made doesn't cover western border of Russian Empire, just wouldn't be playable for 1914 ). But it's perfect for 1915 and later battles.
This thread is for gathering data so far. I am downloading "Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918" written in 1931 by German Army commission ( so far 2% on torrents -guess not so popular book to read:).
I also found some resources for Russian Imperial Army.
I already downloaded Зайончковский А.В. Мировая война 1914-1918 гг. (III издание. М.: Воениздат, 1938. Т.3: Схемы) - maps for eastern front, from Soviet historians and military commission research.
However I still have problem to find resources about the at least approximately Order de Battalie for 1915 - I have it for North Part of the front, but not Central and South piece. Whoever can help or consult please share here. I can read polish, russian, english, german and chinese.
Especially I need maps with divisional scale - dislocation of divisions and brigades would be best. Also organisation and quantity. Period from January 1915 to March 1915.
Cheers guys!

< Message edited by Jazon -- 7/13/2021 11:57:10 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Eastern Front 1915 - 7/14/2021 10:10:55 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		I've emailed you a couple of things. Additionally I wonder if this book might help working out the condition of units etc:

https://www.history.org.uk/historian/resource/8562/germany-ascendant-the-eastern-front-1915

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RE: Eastern Front 1915 - 7/14/2021 12:34:23 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi Bill,
thanks for the link for "Germany Ascendant: Eastern Front".
I had bad experience with Gilbert book... But, I may try this one, first because you recommend it, secondly it's Osprey.
So far, when I was free from testing MOD i made first list for Russians, you can look in the attachment.
And I haven't got anything from you on my email yet.

Cheers!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3
RE: Eastern Front 1915 - 7/15/2021 12:35:50 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
I managed to download "Weltkrieg 1914 - 1918". This stuff is EPIC. It has 15 volumes and additional map volumes. Its very clear to find what you are interested chronologically - basically each quarter of year has separate volume. January to April 1915 is in volume 7. Maps are very vivid and easy to understand.
The minus is, even I feel quite ok with German language, its all written in Swabacha...you can got used to, but got a feeling those crazy Gothic letters are moving like vipers after 10 mins of reading. Anyway, those maps are good point to start. There is also the Index of units, so I guess I got to find each division by it's core,and check where they are mentioned . Fortunately some of them are described in additional situation sketches. However its still ton of work, because quantity data is scarce or written in a very general speaking way. Maybe the quantity or Core index are in another volume. It would be great there would be such a integrated historical work from Russian side... I guess still need to dig.
Cheers all

Jazon

I attached the map, but its quantity is reduced, originals I have are 8MB per Map, so you can zoom in to see each detail.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4
RE: Eastern Front 1915 - maps - 7/16/2021 2:31:12 AM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		After a week of research in map aspect I guess I am done. I have complete dislocation of Central Powers and Russians for 1915 Eastern front.This is my "war room" at my home :P
Cheers




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5
RE: Eastern Front 1915 - maps - 7/16/2021 6:53:16 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		This all is beautiful to behold! Feb 1915 is a great start date. Who in their right mind would try to pull what General Samsonov did anyway?
I'm drooling over the maps....damn...they are like prints of a Van Gogh to a grognards eyes.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 7/16/2021 6:55:29 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Eastern Front 1915 - maps - 7/16/2021 10:31:20 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		That looks great!

I've actually sent two emails, so that is a bit worrying. Could you message/email me your email address so I can double check I have it right?

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Post #: 7
Map redesign for 1915 campaign - 2/13/2022 5:51:24 AM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi,
I've redesigned my 1920's map for 1915 environment. I upgraded East Prussia, checked the railroads, towns and settlements.Main factor was fortifications, after some research I discovered that behind bombastic names like "fortress" actually many of them were actually unmanned and their guns were removed. It happened because Front commanders used them as a resource to replace their front units. Therefore only Novogeorgievsk,Osowiec in Russian territory as well as Boyen and Konigsberg were actually capable to resist without extra forces from the field army. I reflected this on a map, other positions have "fortification" instead of "fortress" mark.
Another interesting thing I've found while studying Eastern Front was that Russian Empire feared Germans a lot, whole north sector of the border with East Prussia was fortified along Vistula, Narew and Niemen river.On the contrary, in the south, there were almost no forts at all (Besides Ivangorod, witch was actually a very small stronghold).Thus shows how Russian high Command valued Austro-Hungarian army military credibility. Russians didn't even bother to invest in any defensive positions against A-H :)
I will continue thus project further, I wonder If I can manage to make a good illustration of the events that happened in the East. Thus scenario seems easier to make than 1920, due to lack of big political events needed to be included for this period.
Jazon





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Map redesign for 1915 campaign - 2/14/2022 7:36:33 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline 		Very nice Jazon! Masurian Lakes here we come.....

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Post #: 9
Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/16/2022 4:17:02 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi!
As you know I've restarted this project. So far I got the map redesigned, Also I made units for Russia, north of Vistula, they are complete so far. It took time to check it a bit, since this scenario will use DIVISIONS mostly, and in most sources and Maps Russian units are mentioned by the cores, not divisions. I have overcome that by digging in Russian internet, actually they have few projects about Russian Imperial Army, which helped me to solve this. If anyone is interested I can provide links. But, to the point:

1.How do you think guys - What tech stats should Russians, Germans and Austria-Hungary have? Scenario starts on February 7th, 1915.Scenario will not allow sides to develop tech, but I am not sure how to distribute it, in order to reflect historically the advancement level of fighting sides. Scenario will not have any Naval battles, since as far as i know there were no clashes in southern Baltic, only some laying mines operations. Also we can skip tanks, because it is 1915th. The same with mobility.

2. As for air tech ... I know very little, suggestions would help me, how to set the following: Fighter Development; Heavy bombers, Long range aircraft, Ground Attack weapon, Airship Development and Aerial Warfare. I only know Germans had Zeppelins and Russians had heavy bomber “Ilya Murmanets” but in scarce numbers. What about the other?

3.Main problem... Infantry Weapons and Artillery Weapons...ideas? I Germans Level 1, AH and Russia 0? Or Germany 2, AH plus Russia Level 1?
4. Doctrines: Command and Control .... Germany 2 AH + Russia 1? Trench Warfare ? I got no idea how to set it, all sides level 1? Infantry warfare the same? Germans one level ahead?
5.Gas/Shell Production I know main problem in Russian Imperial Army was ammo supply, so they would have 0 level, Germans 2 and AH 1? (Since they do had some fine industry in Czech; Skoda was producing guns these days, not cars
6.Similar with Industry? Synthetic Oil...do I need to set that?? Logistics... germany 2, AH Russia 1? Or Russia 0? Production and Industrial Tech? PLZ help :D
7.Spying and Intelligence - Germans ahead level 2? Others 1 or 0?

And another issue. Time - how should I set it...daily simultaneously or alternate? Maybe alternate, because otherwise it would be too slow, and how about winter? One turn for two, three days? What do you think?

I am very curious what other players think about above mentioned issues. Let’s make a brain storm and sort it out, so soon we can all enjoy Eastern Front in divisional scale!

Jazon

PS
I was thinking about changing the scenario name...something would depict the scale of it. For those who don’t know I remind map is from Baltic Sea in the North to Carpathian mountains in the south, from Thorn (Toruń) in the West to Smolensk and Kiev in the East.

PS 2 also victory conditions are worth considering, what I n your opinion should be an objective for fighting sides in 1915?


(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 10
RE: Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/17/2022 8:42:07 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Interesting thoughts, and in terms of Infantry tech I think the Germans had an advantage, but maybe it could be reflected in some of their units starting upgraded, whereas the others have to upgrade ALL their forces - which they won't always have the MPPs or ability to do?

Ignore Synthetic Oil, and I think your other suggestions are a worthwhile place to start. Once you get playing I think you'll soon see if something gives one side too much of an advantage or not.

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Post #: 11
RE: Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/17/2022 1:41:08 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		HI!
Thanks Bill! I see we both agree mostly but you gave me nice hint - Germans will have Inf Lvl 2, but no unit will be equipped in it yet, since it will be the player call how to distribute his MPP's, also artillery on Lvl 2, but base would be 1..
Still have no idea about air units though :(

Cheers!

Jazon

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 12
RE: Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/17/2022 4:49:18 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi,
just wanna share...after two hours of looking What does it mean "Pl" On the map depicting situation at the Eastern Front 1915, I finally found it! I couldn't stop thinking what is it... It turned out it stands for detachment "Plantier" :D




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jazon -- 2/17/2022 4:50:20 PM >

(in reply to Jazon)
Post #: 13
RE: Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/18/2022 7:28:25 AM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi!
I made a summary for tech for 1915 scenario. What do you think? As Bill suggested, this means the fighting sides posses technology, doesn't mean all their troops are upgraded! Actually only a few units will be equipped with newest gear and guns. So far I know Germans will have 2 AA units since begging, also 3 cores (six divisions) will have infantry level 1; it refers for three new corps formed in autumn/winter, which was sent into East Prussia to participate in the winter offensive.

Jazon

PS

How do you calculate artillery units? I made them in one or two units for each Army, but still looking for calculate ratio marker; like 40 field guns= 1 strength point for regular artillery unit; 20 Heavy artillery pieces = 1 strength point for Heavy Artillery Unit. Yes there will be Heavy Artillery units, with strong firepower and de-entrenchment ability but with poor amount of action points. 


Technology:	    Germany  Russia	 Austria-Hungary
Infantry Weapons	1	1	1
Anti Tank Weapons	-	-	-
Tank Weapons	        -	-	-
Fighter Development	1	1	1
Heavy Bombers	        0	1	0
Naval Weapons	        1	1	1
Long Range Aircraft	1	1	1
Advanced Subs	        1	0	0
Artillery Weapons	2	1	1
Airships	        2	0	0
Ground Attack Weapons	1	1	1
Mobility	        -	-	-
Anti Submarine Weapons	-	-	-
Anti Aircraft	        1	1	1
Command&Control	        2	1	1
Infantry Warfare	2	1	1
Armored Warfare	        -	-	-
Aerial Warfare	        1	1	0
Naval Warfare	        1	1	1
Amphibious Warfare	0	0	0
Trench Warfare	        1	1	1
Shell/gas production	2	0	1
Synthetic Oil	        -	-	-
Spying/Intelligence	2	1	0
Logistics	        2	0	1
Production Technology	2	0	1
Industrial  Technology	2	1	1


< Message edited by Jazon -- 2/18/2022 7:37:26 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Tech for Russians and CP beginning 1915 - 2/18/2022 9:56:28 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		With Artillery I would either add a unit per Army, or, if that is too much (and it probably is here) where an offensive needs to have a possibility of success.

Then adopting the same approach with the defender, i.e. they may need one or more to prevent the Germans from being too successful - and also because they did have their own artillery in real life.

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Post #: 15
Scenario building report - 2/20/2022 3:44:57 PM   
Jazon


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/18/2020
Status: offline 		Hi!
So far I designed order de battalie for both sides North to Vistula and Bug River.

Jazon

PS
Can I set first turn weather manually? Or I can only set variations for whole zone?




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Post #: 16
RE: Scenario building report - 2/21/2022 8:39:59 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Great stuff!

The first turn's weather cannot be set in the Editor, though it should default to clear, i.e. not raining.

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Post #: 17
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