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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 3:44:21 PM

cfinch

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although the russians lost little (it seems) in 41, in 42 they may be a bit further forward due to that but they are still not as strong as they thought. they in better than historical shape maybe but 42 wasn't a banner year yet for russia and they needed to be a bit more willing to withdraw and conserve BPs for 43 (imo) then "maybe" they'd be in a bit better shape now? not sure but that is hi level what i gather from this

also they have a bit more flexibility available due to the allies being in italy already and sooner or later german and italian forces being shipped west

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 6:26:41 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

although the russians lost little (it seems) in 41, in 42 they may be a bit further forward due to that but they are still not as strong as they thought. they in better than historical shape maybe but 42 wasn't a banner year yet for russia and they needed to be a bit more willing to withdraw and conserve BPs for 43 (imo) then "maybe" they'd be in a bit better shape now? not sure but that is hi level what i gather from this

also they have a bit more flexibility available due to the allies being in italy already and sooner or later german and italian forces being shipped west

I'm not really experienced enough in WiF to say really but playing it out, I think the Russians did OK until their airforce pretty much got wiped out in 1942. I probably didn't buy enough FTR for them, and when you're in the hole, and with an inferior industry already, its hard to get out of it.

That's probably going to change in 1943, they have 3 FTR-2, 1 FTR-3 and one LND-2 I believe it is right now, so the ratio is completely the other way. The Germans are still quite reliant on Bf110s for fighters, which get the twin engine penalty. And Germany has to defend against strategic bombing now too. So I would assume the air war will go the other way in 1943 and even things out a bit on the Eastern Front.

But we will see I guess.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 9:52:55 PM

Courtenay

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Some comments on your game.

quote:

Looks like partisans can't attack with regulars - you learn something new every day.

Partisans cooperate only with their home country units. So Greek partisans could attack with Greek units, but no others.

What was missing on the attack on Naples was sufficient shore bombardment. Five points of naval bombardment is pitiful. Twenty five would have been more like it. Also, Wavell could have been in the attack. That would have given an automatic +1 for HQ on city, and another +1 for HQ support. That combined with adequate NGS would have given you +9, which would have given you a chance. +5 really was not very good odds.

quote:

There was quite a lot of butchery of convoy points though, clearly while sea combat is often 'and nothing happens' it happens often enough in the Pacific that unguarded CPs will have a short life expectancy.

Convoy points should not be alone near the enemy.

quote:

given the US fleet in the Pacific is entirely deployed do so with impunity. So it has a go.

Neither side should ever do this. It gives a free hand to the enemy. Keep a substantial reserve naval force that can react to the enemy with superior numbers. Then when the enemy commits, jump on him.

quote:

I keep the militia in the China Sea on the amph to test an invasion of the Philippines. +21 is predicted, which confuses me, but 'okay'. It's only militia so if some notional unit can pop up and make it -4 I don't really mind TOO much.

You are playing with limited supply across straights. The Japanese navy cut off supply to the notional unit, so its strength was zero.

quote:

Timoshenko gets railed to Stavropol.

Why Stavropol? Timeshenko is an HQ, so can rail to any rail hex, and closer to the front looks better.

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Post #: 123

RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 10:04:41 PM

Courtenay

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quote:

3 partisans spawn in Russia

Why not Krivoy Rog? Three resource points. The partisan would instantly get killed, of course, but three resource points...

quote:

It's like Malta has a curse of naval ship slowness on it or something.

Do you have US or French ships there? That would give you a -1 to movement.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 10:39:03 PM

wulfir

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Great AAR, EuB!

Way back I played the boardgame version of WiF with some nerd buddies, this was around 1995, 96, 97 - just before we had the big computer/internet breakthrough. My buddies however knew more than me about computers and had dreams about making a WiF computer version, nothing came of that of course...

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Post #: 125

RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 10:42:01 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay
What was missing on the attack on Naples was sufficient shore bombardment. Five points of naval bombardment is pitiful. Twenty five would have been more like it.

They already used most of it in the landing by Rome. So 5 was what was left. Late in the turn, the final few bullets in the gun, etc.

That said this turn a lot of the BBS are in these low boxes due to the Curse of Malta so I imagine there won't be a big attack on Naples this turn, either. Plus some BBs went to the Eastern Med to help an invasion of Libya.

quote:

Also, Wavell could have been in the attack. That would have given an automatic +1 for HQ on city, and another +1 for HQ support. That combined with adequate NGS would have given you +9, which would have given you a chance. +5 really was not very good odds.

Yeah I just read about the HQ bonus against cities this morning, will bear that in mind in future. Probably matter more for Kharkov as two HQs are pretty close so disaster will be limited if it fails.

Wavell was actually having a spot of trouble getting over the mountains without getting disrupted or in the way, as its very packed there. But at the time i was not aware of just how important he was at attacking cities, so didn't bother. I was more trying to get more artillery to the front line to bombard Naples and disrupt more stuff.

quote:

Convoy points should not be alone near the enemy.

So I noticed! If they are completely unguarded surface raiders are deadly. That's why the arctic convoy route got nixed, 2 CAs to an unguarded Norwegian Sea that I forgot about and that was that. I should've extrapolated that to the entire Pacific as thats more or less what happened.

I guess maybe it might be worth building a supply unit and sending it to the Philippines to buy a turn potentially. I did ponder buying a supply for the CW and sending it to Italy in case of disaster too but it's fairly expensive for a small bonus, and units seem to always be in demand.

quote:

Neither side should ever do this. It gives a free hand to the enemy. Keep a substantial reserve naval force that can react to the enemy with superior numbers. Then when the enemy commits, jump on him.

Yup, that's happening from now on (kinda... maybe after this turn). it was just that the carriers were on the west coast so moving in, so half the USN wasn't even there. Probably should've waited a turn before declaring war.

quote:

You are playing with limited supply across straights. The Japanese navy cut off supply to the notional unit, so its strength was zero.

Aha, so that explains that.

As mentioned, the notional unit business seems to be very much black art. Like the odds can be worse if you include it sometimes? what gives there?? I assume it counts as a division and hits the unit cap of 3, or something?

quote:

Timoshenko gets railed to Stavropol.

quote:

Why Stavropol? Timeshenko is an HQ, so can rail to any rail hex, and closer to the front looks better.

I didn't know they could end up anywhere as well? I know they count as a city when you rail TO them. Well, something to bear in mind, but he's at the front now.

< Message edited by EUBanana -- 7/18/2021 11:08:53 PM >

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Post #: 126

RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 10:48:06 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

3 partisans spawn in Russia

quote:

Why not Krivoy Rog? Three resource points. The partisan would instantly get killed, of course, but three resource points...

Manstein was right next to Krivoy Rog at the time, so they couldn't deploy right on it. As it is, the railway cut it off anyway.

It's on the railway behind Krivoy Roj, the bit where the the Y shaped track joins. That's too far for the only spare unit (Manstein!) to go get him. The other one is in Odessa. I think that puts Krivoy Rog out of supply, or at least did at the time.

In reality the Romanian convoy point is in the Black Sea which I forgot about - I think that's the only reason why the entire Southern Front did not get put out of supply. So that presumably let 1 resource go back to Germany, but I confess I didn't check.

As Gomel is in Soviet hands, the northern and southern ends of the railway are not yet both in German hands, and I assume the partisan sitting on the railroad means you can't supply over it.

quote:

It's like Malta has a curse of naval ship slowness on it or something.

quote:

Do you have US or French ships there? That would give you a -1 to movement.

The Curse of Malta is explained!!!!! it's the US Navy.

I guess they will have to be officially granted Sardinia or something.

Yeah here we go, I just opened it up to have a peek. The Germans are being supplied via the Black Sea right now, if the CW managed to take out that convoy point they woulda been in deep merde. And 2 resource points from Krivoy Rog are idle.

I actually think Manstein was right next to it in the partisan phase so they couldn't deploy there anyway.

TBH the Russians should have a combined action and deploy the Black Sea Fleet, I think they're completely unused even though they are cut off so I think they can have a go, though maybe they can move from an out of supply port, but not be organised when doing so. I guess it wouldn't be guaranteed even if they can, though it would keep the German airforce busy in the Black Sea for a change of pace as suddenly they try desperately to sink a few old Russian junkers on whom the war may depend... sounds like a Hollywood movie there for sure.

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< Message edited by EUBanana -- 7/18/2021 11:06:39 PM >

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/18/2021 10:53:08 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfir

Great AAR, EuB!

Way back I played the boardgame version of WiF with some nerd buddies, this was around 1995, 96, 97 - just before we had the big computer/internet breakthrough. My buddies however knew more than me about computers and had dreams about making a WiF computer version, nothing came of that of course...

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Post #: 128

RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 8:25:25 PM

EUBanana

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Winter came, it just came a bit late. Axis go.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 8:50:02 PM

EUBanana

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What with the land combat paralysed, and some things they can do navally, Germany / Italy take naval actions.

Japan... well.

As I understand it from the discussions the other day, notional units actually need supply. So the Japanese fleet wants to do something, possibly as little as providing supply for the islands exposed to the Americans in the Marshalls. Or posssibly ATTACK the Americans in the Marshalls. But they need to take Aparri and bomb Singapore and move up in Malaya as well, and time might be tight if the weather stays bad, so... combined.

The Japanese launch a port strike on Calcutta from their carriers in the Bay of Bengal given the RN reinforcements incoming to try and attritt the far eastern fleet, but the port attack is avoided.

Then they send a small but not that small (especially given the LBA around) to the 3 box of the Marianas, thus putting all of those islands in supply so hopefully not pushovers for the Americans without too much risk on the IJN's part. No idea if this is the sort of thing the defender should be doing in the Pacific but seems logical if I get how notionals work.

Counterinvasion would seem pretty impossible unfortunately as the Japanese MAR divisions are in Rabaul/Solomons/already boarded, and not available as a counterstrike force this turn. I suppose the Japanese really need to have some marines on standby with fast transports as a fire brigade-on-the-sea. Unfortunately they are busy conquering Malaya right now. An AMPH in Canton picks up a GARR from Fukuoka as we gotta keep the flow to the mainland going. Its a white one too, might put it on some valuable but likely to be out of supply spot in China.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 8:58:42 PM

EUBanana

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There's four German subs in Kiel of various qualities now here as reinforcements, the lot go to Faeroes Gap as there's not really any other choice. It's defended, of course, but not... excessively. Cape St Vincent and Central Atlantic get 3 uboats between them.

I have a really bad quality Uboat, must be a type II or something. 3 / 3 speed/range. It was at Bordeaux and I think it's been in the Atlantic all war, struggling. On reflection i send it to the western med. Not to really do that much, but to activate the Italian LBA.

CA Deutschland and a TRN pick up a MIL and a INF-DIV and go into the Baltic, a partisan in Norway cannot be killed by the one garrison unit there so thats the point of that. Plus I think Norway might need a bit more defence, Stavanger in particular seems like it needs a garrison as well as Oslo.

Bit hard to see but this covers the Battle of the Atlantic this turn I think...

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 9:05:05 PM

EUBanana

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The one fairly poor Italian SUB goes to the Western Med as well, it can get to the 2 box so it has a chance.

The Italian fleet is 20 factors, which is the same as the biggest CW fleet in the Italian Coast this turn while they are busy over in the Eastern Med invading Libya. And its bad weather (they got air cover even so). So... on reflection, and with the usual note that staying in port isn't much of an option, they set sail to the ring of warships around Italy, and make it to the 3 box, where they snuggle under a BF110 and two NAVs. (Though its a storm this turn).

I assume there won't be a huge amount for Italy to do this turn beyond activate those guys again and again and hopefully get more bombing done.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 9:11:10 PM

EUBanana

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So, a huge slew of naval combat rolls.

Both fleets in the Western Med find each other. This one is odd, as it was one SUB vs a 4 ship CVTF... in a storm.

It went straight to damage risks for the Allies, 2 aborts, so Duke of York got aborted. I really have no idea what this was about. I assume this is a surface combat as there are no convoys and no aircraft involved, just seems a bit odd mentally given we're talking submarines, but a sub vs warships in WIF is surface combat technically so... I get it. Indeed. The BB and SUB both got aborted, the carrier stayed.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 9:19:35 PM

EUBanana

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A good roll from the Germans in Cape St Vincent destroy the 1 CP there, a pretty good result clearing that, will have an impact on supply and production, and the CW is almost totally out of CPs I think (though some American ones are coming, I assume... hope... they are interchangeable!). With no other convoys the SUB aborts back to Bordeaux as that's one of Germany's better subs (speed 5).

Faeroes Gap next, thta could run and run potentially as the turn wears on, so a B24 is sent to the 0 box to help out. As it happens there's no combat this impulse.

In the Coral Sea Japan ponders to initiate. There's a storm so the aircraft are safe, the convoy point might be vulnreable, but the Japanese are the higher box and probably should take advantage of the Yamato again while they can given the air power won't come into it. Doesn't matter though as they don't find each other.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 9:21:45 PM

EUBanana

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Japan then spends the rest of their air moves bombing the defenders at Singapore, unfortunately without success so maybe it will survive another turn. Or at least put up a fight.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/19/2021 9:25:32 PM

EUBanana

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Hata takes advantage of the snow to move into the swamp hex and claim it without being disrupted. Japan is quite short on oil and can't really afford that he be disrupted. He needs it for supply purposes too.

A MAR lands at the newly captured Aparri which the MIL took this impulse, on the Philippines.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 12:45:40 AM

cfinch

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regarding the transport of white print unit to china

i don't recall how victory conditions go (been too long) nor do i have a feel for how many units you have in China (i recall you saying it was light but then you may also be light on garrisons for the islands), so with a grain of salt

i think you need enough in china to slow them down and hold resources as long as possible but white prints OOS are also kind of useful defending the "perimeter" (and ground units in general) vs the US and, generally speaking the war is lost there as the perimeter closes in. A bit of a balancing act but iirc the oil is down south and late war becomes the big need

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 2:12:47 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

regarding the transport of white print unit to china

i don't recall how victory conditions go (been too long) nor do i have a feel for how many units you have in China (i recall you saying it was light but then you may also be light on garrisons for the islands), so with a grain of salt

i think you need enough in china to slow them down and hold resources as long as possible but white prints OOS are also kind of useful defending the "perimeter" (and ground units in general) vs the US and, generally speaking the war is lost there as the perimeter closes in. A bit of a balancing act but iirc the oil is down south and late war becomes the big need

This is where I am bad. WiF is a board game, not a WW2 simulation, its just complicated enough to delude myself into thinking it is.

So I got no clue about victory conditions, I just try and 'win the war', which probably isn't t he mentality you have to have.

Like when Orm pointed out to me that Tripoli is actually really important to make Italy surrender. I assumed Tripoli was not militarily relevant and just had the Allies ignore it. Maybe some Pacific islands are the same? Maybe that white print should go to Iwo Jima just because? I am not sure, I'm not even sure I'd know where to go to find out.

I know Japan will probably buy more GARR this year to try and shore up the islands, I think right now the USN is not sufficiently big enough to just roll over them but we'll see I guess.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 9:11:43 PM

EUBanana

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Jan/Feb 43, Impulse 8, Allies go.

US takes a land. Good weather in the Central Pacific. Unfortunately the Mediterranean has storms right now so the landing on Libya cannot happen (and the turn may end I fear).

China land as per usual.

CW combined, they have a convoy gap to plug and probably not much else aside from nibbling around edges.

Russia... combined. Alert all commands, deploy the fleet.

CW moves a CP and two CLs to Cap St Vincent. This convoy keeps getting picked off so two more old CLs based at Gibraltar to help out seem like they might be a good idea.

Russia deploys the Black Sea Fleet into the... Black Sea. Naval combat is initiated and the Germans fly a Ju-88 to the 2 box and a Bf110 to the 0.

Luck is on the r00sky side. Despite the air cover they find the convoy- and sink it.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 9:18:22 PM

EUBanana

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As it's late in the turn the CW tries some strategic bombing of Lille with two bombers in the UK. The Lancasters were shot down in 1942 so its a bit weak. They do a daylight raid.

The Chinese night bomb Shanghai meanwhile.

Then the USAAF has a go and bombs the oil stash in Bremen. Probably put it a bit too close to the UK... decisions made in 1939 off the cuff are having an effect now. Cologne/Essen are not bombed as there is fighter cover there but Bremen was a bit out of range.

That was the only success though.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 9:29:43 PM

EUBanana

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Incidentally this hex... stopped Germany from losing supply in the south.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 9:31:54 PM

EUBanana

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Huh. Or it didn't, as the partisan in Odessa moving to it makes no odds.

Think we found something else I don't understand.

Partisan stays in Odessa and some Katyusha rejiggles elsewhere to cover more front.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 9:56:56 PM

EUBanana

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The US does a mass debark into the UK. 30 factors of US ground troops in the UK right now.

The CW debarks Alexander into northern Italy. The two Allied bridgeheads there seem pretty decent now but they also seem quite bogged down at least so far, they'll need some naval support or something to blow the Italians off their mountains.

Despite Japanese attempts to supply the notional unit at least Eniwetok looks very capturable by the US fleet in the Marshalls, so lets see how that goes. It'll let them project LBA properly into the Japanese defensive zone if they bag it - and bomb Kwajalein maybe. The LBA in question is already loaded on a TRN in the Marshalls (a P38 - the US is very short of NAVs).

The US goes all in as I'm very bad at judging amphibious operations as we've seen... Including, probably somewhat unnecessrily and riskily, US CV air.

The Zeroes at Kwajalein try and do something about that, and ther's a counterbombardment from BB Kongo in the Marianas too.

The Americans abort the air after this happens, figuring they dont need to risk their CV air in this way.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 10:01:42 PM

EUBanana

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End result is the Japanese seem to do a fairly credible defence of Eniwetok without actually committing that much at all, those odds are not exactly great after all while committing very little. But the Americans roll well so it doesn't matter.

Seems like making sure the notionals are supplied is a good start at stopping it from being candy from baby stuff at least.

Unfortunately immediate counterinvasion is not possible.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/20/2021 10:06:38 PM

EUBanana

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And the turn ends. That's bad for the Axis who had more to do, but also a bit annoying for the US who had more air stuff to do.

Even more partisans, Communist Chinese ones in Peking, fortunately no more in Russia at least which makes Germany happy.

Stay at Sea was a complete disaster from the US/CW, leaving Italy out of supply

, and due to the turn ending quite quick some transports being out fo position (still loaded, had to go port at their destination). The Med is a mess as the US fleet sand CW ones start spliting up properly to avoid that malus. Happens to the Germans too, who now have some ships docked in Norway carrying troops.

Can't think of anything particularly daring or unusual bar the US sub hunting in the China Sea goes to Eniwetok, quite far forward, and a TRN carryign that P38 goes to Eniwetok too.

The numbers in production now are getting quite big.

Germany has 33
GARR x2
MOT
MNT
ARM
FTR-3
2 x Pilot
Offensive

Italy has 12
2 x Pilot
1 SUB
1 NAV-3
2 naval repair

Japan
3 x Pilot
2 NAV-2
2 GARR

China has 7
LND-3, its a decent lend lease one
MOT

Commonwealth has 35
PARA (its 1st Airborne again, yay)
Armour HQ (Monty)
2 naval construction (all TRN)
2 convoy
3 x Pilot
2 x CVA-1
FTR-2
LND-3
2 convoys

US has 46
2 CA
2 BB
4 Pilot
1 MAR
2 FTR-3
2 PARA
2 ATR

USSR has 33
6 INF
1 ARM
4 Pilot
2 FTR-2
1 LND-2
1 MIL

< Message edited by EUBanana -- 7/20/2021 11:04:46 PM >

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/21/2021 5:21:36 PM

EUBanana

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March/April 43, Impulse #1, Allies have the initiative.

US / CW both take naval actions, the rest take land.

US sends fighters to the 3 box of the Solomons and Catalinas to the 4 box of the Marshalls, going to do a lil raid there to bag the convoy point.

CW sends a Mosquito to the 2 box of Italian Sea, where the TRN to supply Italy is going to be.

Usual CW boring stuff, spreading across the various convoys in the Atlantic... They also deploy to the Bay of Bengal with a transport so if Japan wants to cut supply to Malaya (still standing...), they won't be able to do it on the cheap. Not to mention the defensive shore bonbardment.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/21/2021 5:26:13 PM

EUBanana

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They also deploy an invasion force to the Eastern Med to attempt Libya again.

And shore up their convoy situation, the US has been exporting to the CW which shortened CW supply lines at the extent of costing the US production (this is what I meant by 'maybe the US is being too kind' earlier). So this turn US exports to the CW diminished by 1, and sure enough they had a gap in their routes, which they filled by a convoy. Now running out big time. I hope US convoy points cooperate with them, I assume they do, plenty are passing through Panama about now.

BBs and a CV go to Bay of Biscay to keep the Bismarck in port again, on a nice weather month Is uspect the carrier will be enough given the way this game plays.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/21/2021 5:53:19 PM

EUBanana

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Usual crisscross of American TRNs across the Atlantic... couple of strat bombers and a MTN-div go for the Med this time but the bulk is still headed for the UK. The American fleet in the Med all deploys, to the Western Med mostly, but its' mainly to get Admiral King out of Malta and remove that -1 bickering penalty on speed.

The US has quite a lot of fighters in the Pacific as I prioritised those, so several P38s, but only has 2 NAVs - a Hudson and a Catalina. So we need some bite. So we go back to the West Coast and load up a Dauntless, hopefully over 1943 we'll see a lot more US NAVs.

Kinda want to keep up the pressure so four old BBs go to the Coral Sea, a SUB goes to the Bismarck Sea, a SUB goes to the 1 box of Sea of Japan... two CLs and two CAs dare the Solomons to try and get the convoy point there, the IJN does have a cruiser force defendnig it. They are in the 3 box covered by fighters. The main carrier force and fast battleships stay at Hawaii though.

Aircraft are scrambled by Japan but the US cruisers in the Solomons roll well and are in a higher box.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/21/2021 5:57:25 PM

EUBanana

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Crunch the Solomons is cleared of IJN by a cruiser action... maybe the Japanese shoulda put a Val into the 0 box but they were going to use it for the sub in the Bismarck Sea. And the US was somewhat lucky.

Helena/Phoenix are aborted, Astoria/Portland remain on station.

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RE: Solitaire game starting late '42 - 7/21/2021 6:03:35 PM

EUBanana

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The US sub in the China sea finds the enemy, but so does the defendnig Emily in the 4 box so end result is the sub aborts back to Midway.

Much the same happens in the Bismarck Sea, where the IJN rolls well. Another SUB aborts back to Midway.

The American submarine arm isn't doing that well, at least compared to the surface raiders...