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RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips

 
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RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/13/2021 10:52:11 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		First AD for Luftflotte 2; at the moment, the number of aircraft auto assigned is higher compared to jubjub's but it will reajust itself later. I also transfered SKG 210 from Luftflotte 2 to Luftflotte 4.






(edit: correct number of strike is 6)

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< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/13/2021 10:57:08 PM >

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Post #: 91
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/13/2021 11:17:10 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		2nd AD with 2 only strikes; the order matter as they will be executed in this order at the same level of priority.




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Post #: 92
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/13/2021 11:25:13 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		3rd AD with 4 airfields to strike; the number of aircraft per strike was always set at 40 (10) in all ADs so far.




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Post #: 93
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/13/2021 11:55:58 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		4th AD is manualy assigning 40 unescorted He 111 of KG 53 to strike Baranovichi. The priority of this one is set lower (normal) than all the others.




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Post #: 94
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 12:08:44 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		5th and last AD for Luftflotte 2 is manually sending Bf 110s from ZG26 to strike deeper those 2 Airfields.




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Post #: 95
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 12:22:07 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Those 7 ADs of AGN and AGC with overlapping:




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Post #: 96
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 2:10:10 AM   
Teo41_ITA

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 9/2/2021
Status: offline 		Thank you metaphore! So your trick is to leave the assignment on auto! I will try that!

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Post #: 97
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 6:53:30 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Teo41_ITA

Thank you metaphore! So your trick is to leave the assignment on auto! I will try that!


It's how jubjub build those ADs and I'm just rebuilding them following his instructions. Also, he explained why things are done like that if you go back to the first page of this thread to read his introduction post.

But yes, unless one has a good reason to assign manually aircraft to missions, the AI will extract more from the pooled a/c, the highest level (Luftflotten) the better.

(in reply to Teo41_ITA)
Post #: 98
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 7:06:00 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		I'll post the rest of those ADs for AGS as things are quite interesting in the South with Minor Allies forces and Crimean strikes :)

First, rebasing KG 55 and SKG 210:




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Post #: 99
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:03:42 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		1st AD for Luftflotte 4 is targetting 4 airfields with a staging base set at Hostynne... but Rovno AF is out of range for the escort (see green/purple hexes below):




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< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/14/2021 8:04:49 AM >

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Post #: 100
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:12:01 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Consequently, we'll equip those Bf 109 from Hostynne (JG 3) with fuel tanks (also, jubjub gave instruction to do just that if you look at his screenshot):




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Post #: 101
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:14:48 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		and now, it's all green up to Rovno:




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Post #: 102
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:57:38 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		2nd AD is set for 3 strikes of 40 bombers escorted by 10 fighters. Staging base auto set at Tomaszow Lubelski is working fine here:




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< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/14/2021 8:58:04 AM >

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Post #: 103
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 9:11:55 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		3rd AD use Tomaszow Lubelski as staging base and I have rebased some escort there. III/JG 3 from Jaslo was a bit too far in order to support those ADs and would be better used at Tomaszow L. So I've moved it.




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Post #: 104
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 9:24:22 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		4th AD is just for adding a second strike (simultaneous) at the big fighter base at Brody. Staging is also set at Tomaszow L. and 40 bombers with 10 escort will attack there on top of the previous raid.




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Post #: 105
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 10:22:10 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		5th AD is targeted at Proskurov airfield where 30 bombers will strike without escort. Consequently, the priority of this AD is lowered to High.

We don't want partial escort and, by default, I've set it to NO in my Ground Attack Air Doctrine. If you didn't, you'll have to check it for each AD where escort could fly without being able to reach the target (like this one).



Note: if you are reproducing those ADs, don't worry at this stage if the number of auto-assigned aircraft doesn't match with mines or jubjub's. It's because it's changing - and not always refreshing - when one is building more ADs (which I did). At the end of the process, those numbers should match only if everything was set exactly the same way.




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< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/14/2021 10:41:43 AM >

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Post #: 106
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 10:49:27 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		6th AD, a single long range strike with 40 unescorted bombers to Novogrod-Volynski. Same as previous one, priority level was lowered to "High".




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Post #: 107
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 10:55:37 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		7th AD is setting manually SKG 210 to strike Zhitomir AF with 70 aircraft. Priority is also set to "High".




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Post #: 108
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 11:01:53 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		8th AD is also a long range strike at Berdichev with 30 unescorted bombers. This one was set at priority "Normal".




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Post #: 109
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 12:34:43 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		First of all thank you very much for this very helpful post.

Only 2 issues so far.

In post 86 (first Luft 1 GA), I had not fighter escort to the 2-3 hexes east of the target, to correct this I had to take the transferred in squadron and set them to use fuel tanks.

In post 108 I could not get STG 210 to reach Zhitomir (missed it by 2 hexes, i.e. out of range), so I just set it normal, and used 40 with no escorts.

However I am using the latest testing beta (0.15).

Waiting for your remaining posts so I can run the test.

This is been very educational and helpful to grasp a proper way of doing manual air, thank you.

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Post #: 110
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 1:51:25 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

In post 86 (first Luft 1 GA), I had not fighter escort to the 2-3 hexes east of the target, to correct this I had to take the transferred in squadron and set them to use fuel tanks.


Did you rebase one group of JG 54 to Memel?
- it's indicated to do that at first; you really need one group of Bf 109 in Memel in order to provide escort without the need to use fuel tanks (fuel tanks give air to air combat malus, better to avoid it).

see here:http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5087980


< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/14/2021 1:53:20 PM >

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 111
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 1:56:39 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

In post 108 I could not get STG 210 to reach Zhitomir (missed it by 2 hexes, i.e. out of range), so I just set it normal, and used 40 with no escorts.


Same issue: SKG 210 was first rebased to Zamosc
see post: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5088120

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 112
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 2:05:53 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Waiting for your remaining posts so I can run the test.

This is been very educational and helpful to grasp a proper way of doing manual air, thank you.


You are welcome and I hope it will help. Thank you also jubjub who posted it at the first place but I saw that many people could not implement the ADs properly.

Next ADs will need more time to be posted because I need to explain the rebasing and change of command needed for the minor axis allies. So, it will take a bit longer to post them. I will do that probably tonight.

But anyway, I'm also going to post the save file at the end for people to test and change them to their own taste.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 113
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 2:54:53 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		For better clarity on the map, and because this is only about testing, I've sent everything that's not used for those Ground Attack ADs to the Axis Reserve.

It's very easy to do it at once by using the Commander Report:




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Post #: 114
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 3:06:48 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Now, we also need to change the Rumanian and Hungarian Combat Commands back to their national HQs instead of Luftflotte 4.
Hence, Rum. Combat Air Cmd is assigned to Rumanian Air Command and 1st Royal HAF Field Bde is assigned to Hungarian Air Command:




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Post #: 115
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 5:03:10 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metaphore

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

In post 86 (first Luft 1 GA), I had not fighter escort to the 2-3 hexes east of the target, to correct this I had to take the transferred in squadron and set them to use fuel tanks.


Did you rebase one group of JG 54 to Memel?
- it's indicated to do that at first; you really need one group of Bf 109 in Memel in order to provide escort without the need to use fuel tanks (fuel tanks give air to air combat malus, better to avoid it).

see here:http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5087980



Yep, transferred to Memel as per.

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(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 116
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 5:04:06 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metaphore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

In post 108 I could not get STG 210 to reach Zhitomir (missed it by 2 hexes, i.e. out of range), so I just set it normal, and used 40 with no escorts.


Same issue: SKG 210 was first rebased to Zamosc
see post: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5088120



Yep, but instead of Zamosc the text said to that other base.

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Post #: 117
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:10:14 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Using the latest beta patch 0.15 and this is what happens when you follow the instructions for Luft 1 to the tee (you have to add fuel tanks for those transferred fighters to get escort coverage).



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Post #: 118
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/14/2021 8:18:30 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		So I setup the AD for GA for Luft 1, the only change I did is for all the fighters at Memel (and the just transferred in ones) to use drop tanks. I did this in Road to Leningrad and run the air execution phase after adding in GS for AGN.

The results were Outstanding!



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Post #: 119
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 4:58:55 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Hi Zovs,
Looking at your screenshot, the symbol I have circled in red means that you actually didn't complete the transfer of your Bf 109 to Memel.
Consequently, what you have to do to fully transfer your fighters is:

1. right click on JG 54 label -> menu
2. click on "execute air transfer (immediate)"
3. remove fuel tanks on your fighters




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< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 5:08:58 AM >

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Post #: 120
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