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New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 1:41:37 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		This is probably a dumb question so forgive my ignorance.

Will there be another beta patch c?

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Post #: 1
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 1:44:00 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Probably not.

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Post #: 2
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 1:49:15 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.

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Post #: 3
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 2:26:29 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/23/2021 2:27:21 AM >

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Post #: 4
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 10:19:35 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thanks all.

Personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed. What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
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DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 5
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 10:45:29 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?



No, but I'll bet that they are all busy with other things....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
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(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 6
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 1:10:54 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		How much are you personally willing to commit to crowd funding, Tanaka? $1000? I suspect to get a meaningful amount, it would require 50-100 funders to put in enough to buy a sufficient block of programmer time to get things moving.

What crowd funding model/software do you suggest? You will need one that accommodates internationally recognised trust fund protocols.

Have you secured Licensing agreements with all of Matrix, 2X3, and Henderson Field to proceed with this project?

Let us know when you have all the ducks aligned, because this is not that simple.

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Post #: 7
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 2:06:50 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!



No.

Like it or not, AE is a legacy product now.

quote:

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?


Do you have any idea of the costs associated with software development, even when working even with a lone developer?

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 11/23/2021 2:07:40 PM >

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 8
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 7:19:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

How much are you personally willing to commit to crowd funding, Tanaka? $1000? I suspect to get a meaningful amount, it would require 50-100 funders to put in enough to buy a sufficient block of programmer time to get things moving.

What crowd funding model/software do you suggest? You will need one that accommodates internationally recognised trust fund protocols.

Have you secured Licensing agreements with all of Matrix, 2X3, and Henderson Field to proceed with this project?

Let us know when you have all the ducks aligned, because this is not that simple.

The input from Alfred was that something in the range of 5-7 million dollars would be required. We are not going to have that many $1000 donors. We need a Jeff Bazos to get hooked on the game. I'll mention it to him next time I see him in person!

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(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 9
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 7:26:02 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Jeff Bezos is propping up Star Citizen as we speak.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 7:40:29 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 11
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 7:54:59 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.

I never thought of Grigsby as a coder as much as a game designer - developing the flow charts that show how the game is set up and what happens in each step of the chart. The coding is done from there by dedicated programmers. Sometimes they can lift routines they have already developed for other programs and use them with little modification in the new game, shortening the development time.

The hard part on this one would be developing a responsive AI (that analyses situations like a human player) and getting copywrite permissions to use stuff like the excellent database of WITP-AE (which would save thousands of hours of research).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 12
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 8:09:04 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Jeff Bezos is propping up Star Citizen as we speak.



Star Citizen is definitely not an model to aspire to.

In effectively any other setting, having a project with that level of spend attached and having delivered that little would have had serious consequences.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.



That's a fantasy.

There's no chance you're getting anyone with any experience to sign on to do this for no remuneration, and there's no financial sense in a patch for a game that's already pushing a decade old.

With a project like this, someone who doesn't know what they're doing tinkering with the code is a hundred times worse than doing nothing at all. Amplified for someone removed from the design process.

Go ask AndyMac (who was on the dev team working on ground combat) how much of the naval routines he understands.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 13
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/23/2021 8:13:05 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Hence I doubt any patch will be forthcoming any time soon.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 14
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 6:44:16 AM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		So AE is a "legacy product" ... the price does not suggest so however.

I bought 2 other legacy products 2 years ago (Nap+Emp TW) and they cost 9,99€ both together.
These also have a fair share of problems, but for the low price they are ok I think..




(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 15
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 6:51:59 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Well, WITP:AE is still in " New Releases" category...

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 16
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 7:54:35 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Legacy product in software development only means that a product is outdated(be it because its old or it was replaced), it has not necessarily a implication on the price of the product.
Normally old products are discontinued or heavily reduced in price, but not every product benefits from that. There are even cases where legacy products got even more expensive.
As I don't have the data, I cannot tell you if WITPAE would benefit from a price reduction. But it seems like matrix is thinking that it is not worth it, except for the occasional sale.


(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 17
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 11:45:54 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Antiques are worth more . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 18
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 1:47:25 PM   
Jellicoe


Posts: 157
Joined: 9/26/2012
From: Kent, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Antiques are worth more . . .


And like any good antique you just want to stand back and admire WITPAE and say things like 'look at the craftmanship on that', 'they don't make them like that anymore', 'think of the hours of labour that went to creating that masterpiece' and maybe stroke it lovingly

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 19
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/24/2021 5:00:58 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I personally don't look at WITP-AE as an antique, there are some many map and art mods that it gives the old beauty more than just a face lift and a new evening gown, sparkly shoes too boot (pun intended).

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

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Post #: 20
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/25/2021 10:33:15 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Antiques are worth more . . .


I wish it was true with us too

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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 21
RE: New patch (dumb question) - 11/25/2021 10:40:59 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Antiques are worth more . . .


I wish it was true with us too



With our collective knowledge we, as older people, are worth more.....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 22
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