Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

My recommendation, back in BETA I believe but can be wrong, was to not replace any leader in an HQ that had a leader killed until the phasing players turn. Yes, you will still have a leader death but you can't go fishing for more leader deaths from the same HQ displaced again.

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ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

And playing with an earlier patch is a good idea but what other situations does that bring up?

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ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

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ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

And playing with an earlier patch is a good idea but what other situations does that bring up?

I have another idea. In the StB scenario, some leaders (e.g. Rotmistrov) are not available until a certain date. So I presume in the editor it is possible to make leaders like Tolbukhin only be available starting on, say, turn 3 or 4 or so.

If so, then what I would do is make a modified scenario where the particularly good/irreplaceable leaders like Tolbukhin don't exist in the game until turn 3 or 4. That would stop them from being re-assigned to doomed HQs within the pockets on the first turn or two.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with some of the normal/bad leaders (in particular the ones that were actually there on the front) getting killed - it even adds a bit of atmosphere. But this is a different thing as compared to that.

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ORIGINAL: K62

Just for extra context, I was playing Axis on that T1 and I was not intentionally targeting Soviet leaders. Tolbukhin and Bobkin got assigned to the same corps HQ that kept displacing in the path that PG3 was going to take anyway.

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ORIGINAL: Zovs

Did a search and the Soviets lost 416 general officers, so not sure of the new ratio of lost currently in the game.

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ORIGINAL: xhoel

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ORIGINAL: Zovs

Did a search and the Soviets lost 416 general officers, so not sure of the new ratio of lost currently in the game.

Both sides lost a lot of leaders in combat. It was part of the leading from the front mentality. The issue is that a lot of those commanders were lower level ones that WitE 2 does not simulate. So losing a regimental/battalion/brigade or division commander is not reflected in the game.

As such, seeing a lot of higher level leaders (in this case Corps and Army commanders) dying like flies is just too much and not based on historical records. Whatever the current KIA rates are, should be toned down.

Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

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ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've done several tests displacing around 60 HQs each time that are not-isolated, and got results from a low of 4 to a high of 18 (more common result is around 8). In any case, I'm not getting 50% against in-supply HQs. I'm using a save someone sent me where I can easily displace a large number of Soviet HQs. We used that save (and another with isolated HQs) to test the fix and it seems to be working as it should from our tests (but with the big variation possible as shown in the tests I just did.

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ORIGINAL: Nikel

For reference, a list of senior soviet commanders who died along the war with several references, the last A. A. Stepanov, "the figure was 472 who died during the years of the Great Patriotic War, a general, an admiral and equal senior military leaders (including 268 who died at the front, 25 died in captivity, 56 were repressed, 123 died and died for non-combat reasons in the rear)." (Google translation).


472 deads/215 turns = 2,2 deads per turn.

https://tinyurl.com/2p8tcw57


Though in the references I do not see A Maslov, the author of the book that translated Glantz.

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ORIGINAL: DesertedFox



The leaders in the game represent only the Commander of the corp, army, army group, or front.

They do not represent the various senior officers attached to the HQ's depending on their level, such as Intelligence, 2nd IC, Artillery, and Air Liason officers to name some off the top of my head.

That figure of 472 will include more of these types of officers than the actual commanders.

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ORIGINAL: Beethoven1


Good thing that I am not using generals/HQs this game, or I would be pissed!

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ORIGINAL: Cavalry Corp

I would like to see leaders wounded and captured - not just killed. And I think the kill rate probably is a bit too high.

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ORIGINAL: jubjub

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Ya, Joel Billings said that the numbers are what he expects for leader kills. I am totally ok with that. But for killing of good leaders for the Soviets up front the first few turns, I call it "Bullshit" in my own opinion. You have to play to "save" good leaders with the Soviets now. It is a perfect strategy for Germany to pursue & I am sure it will be going forward. I know I will the next time I take up Germany. As for the Soviets you might as well "relocate" your HQ's out of the pocket & try to save them. BUT you have to relocate them during the Air phase, if you do it in the Ground phase they love to relocate back towards the enemy!!!!!! A few of mine did!

I'm still not convinced that the 15% rate is being applied to HQ's that displaced out of a pocket earlier in the turn. I have had too many occasions where the same HQ's keep losing leaders at a very high rate after they've been displaced from a pocket.

Does anyone have a save they are using to test this stuff?

I am ok with the killing of leaders but the rate is not 15%, it is higher. The problem is tied to the "pseudo random number" I bet. In theory if 100 HQ's are displaced then 15 of them should have a leader casualty. We aren't having that since K62 in our game did not displace 100 HQ's. He maybe displaced maybe up to 25ish and some a couple of times. The simple math dictates that that is not 15%. It seems on the first turn that when a German completes a pocket it treats it as surrounded and could be applying the 50% kill rate. Guess on my part but seems likely.