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Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario?

 
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Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:13:38 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		We could be in a real conflict soon, yet there seems to be no interest in making a scenario
for this? DLC seems to be very hypothetical scenarios instead of an actual potential scenario.

Are there any third party/user made scenarios that takes the current situation in Ukraine and potential war in North into account?
Post #: 1
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:17:00 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I just posted one for Play Test on the Baltic States. Not saying it's good , but it's there.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 2
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:18:31 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Ukraine and potential war in North


Yes, I posted two on the Ukraine, one near Mariupol and (yesterday) one for Play Test near Kyiv.

Look here...
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1281

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/13/2022 11:19:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 3
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:20:40 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Great BeirutDude. I hoped there would be something :). (looking at buying at the sale so that is why).

Still surprised nothing official was made. This is a super hot Topic as we speak.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 4
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:22:38 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

I just posted one for Play Test on the Baltic States. Not saying it's good , but it's there.


Btw, does this cover a hypothetical assault on Gotland?

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 5
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:26:48 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I bumped the scenarios to the top for you.

Community designed scenarios are much more flexible and easy to design than "Official." Remember we're doing it as a hobby, for free and so if the scenario sucks, we just wasted their time. Official scenarios, they charge a little bit for, so they should be much more QC'ed. It is a little dated but the is the "Don of a New Era" Command Live Scenario that is similar to the current situation.

BTW, while I was designing the Baltic, 2022 scenario the OOB changed about five times, so I gave up on trying to keep up. One of the dangers of retime scenario design. That and incomplete information. I made a LOT of suppositions for the Kyiv, Ukraine, 2022 scenario.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 6
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:28:03 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		BTW, in the Baltic, 2022 Scenario thought about adding Sweden and Gotland Island, but you have to stop somewhere!!!!!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 7
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:36:58 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Btw, does this cover a hypothetical assault on Gotland?


See above. This could be a good follow up to Baltics, 2022. I suspect the Russians wouldn't try for Gotland Island until after they secured the Baltic States.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 8
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 11:43:29 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

I bumped the scenarios to the top for you.

Community designed scenarios are much more flexible and easy to design than "Official." Remember we're doing it as a hobby, for free and so if the scenario sucks, we just wasted their time. Official scenarios, they charge a little bit for, so they should be much more QC'ed. It is a little dated but the is the "Don of a New Era" Command Live Scenario that is similar to the current situation.

BTW, while I was designing the Baltic, 2022 scenario the OOB changed about five times, so I gave up on trying to keep up. One of the dangers of retime scenario design. That and incomplete information. I made a LOT of suppositions for the Kyiv, Ukraine, 2022 scenario.


Great thanx. Yes I understand this is a big undertaking for a single person. I would have paid for this DLC. Just strange that they don't jump on the opportunity given the hightened interest in the subject. Could probably have gotten some news items on it :).

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 9
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 12:01:30 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

I would have paid for this DLC. Just strange that they don't jump on the opportunity given the hightened interest in the subject. Could probably have gotten some news items on it :).


Well again, I only play here, don't work here, but IMHO a DLC is much more involved than just throwing out a "Community Scenario." If I get it wrong, the Game's reputation isn't on the line...

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/13/2022 12:03:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 10
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 12:11:28 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		marcusm, do you have any insights to the current Swedish OOB on and near Gotland. I know it's been beefed up past few weeks.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 11
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 1:36:58 PM   
hrfepo1

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/19/2017
Status: offline 		Looping in to read the comments. This is very interesting.

_____________________________


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Post #: 12
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 2:04:19 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		So did some quick mods to the Baltics, 2022 scenario and had the Russians "Capture" the Baltic States. Eliminated NATO in the Baltics except a few Baltic States ships that could have escaped to Sweden/Gotland. Now have a base Russian side to use for a Gotland scenario. I believe there are Naval Infantry in Kaliningrad, and I would definitely use airmobile if I were Russia...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 13
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:03:41 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

marcusm, do you have any insights to the current Swedish OOB on and near Gotland. I know it's been beefed up past few weeks.

No specifics other than the public info about reserves being deployed there. There is always JAS39 on alert and Naval assets but nothing major I know of. Not all is public of course :).

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 14
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:05:00 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

So did some quick mods to the Baltics, 2022 scenario and had the Russians "Capture" the Baltic States. Eliminated NATO in the Baltics except a few Baltic States ships that could have escaped to Sweden/Gotland. Now have a base Russian side to use for a Gotland scenario. I believe there are Naval Infantry in Kaliningrad, and I would definitely use airmobile if I were Russia...





In that scenario they would require Air Superiority and I am not sure they would at this point. Sweden has quite a lot of JAS39 and there are of course Danish and Finnish assets around.

There are 140 active JAS but some are mothballed also. Question is of course how many Pilots are around.

I mean if Estonia is attacked then It is reasonable that quite a bit of those Squadrons would be occupied elsewhere. THey would have to commit quite a large number to counter Sweden.

At any rate a well made scenario would be interesting. I hope the devs look into it.

< Message edited by marcusm -- 2/13/2022 3:11:22 PM >

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 15
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:16:50 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		OH, BTW, while not directly related to ongoing events, there are a series of scenario, not saying they are good scenarios , in the Community Scenario's pack called "Putin's War." They have a Nordic Flare and at least two include Sweden.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 16
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:19:00 PM   
ParachuteProne

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 8/2/2004
Status: offline 		Any chance for any of these payable on both sides ?

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 17
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:31:20 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Any chance for any of these payable on both sides ?


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to ParachuteProne)
Post #: 18
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:36:13 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Any chance for any of these payable on both sides ?


When I started out with scenario design I tried to make them playable from both sides, but I found it to be a lot of work for little gain. For one, you have all kinds of RPs out there for the A/I missions you defeat for the human. So I'm going to say no. Consider once the air battle over the Baltic/Gotland is done and Russia has gained control of the seas around the island, really reducing Gotland is just a matter of mopping up the defenders. Not saying they wouldn't fight gallantly, but I really think it's a Russian victory if they tried it.

Let me look at it, but my initial thoughts are no.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to ParachuteProne)
Post #: 19
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:42:51 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Since I don't have the game yet. Can you see if RBS15 is modelled in the Game? Also the Silent Swedish Subs.

RBS15 was mothballed for many years but it is still one of the most competent Surface to Surface Missile systems. It could give any landing craft serious trouble.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 20
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:45:37 PM   
ParachuteProne

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 8/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

Any chance for any of these payable on both sides ?


When I started out with scenario design I tried to make them playable from both sides, but I found it to be a lot of work for little gain. For one, you have all kinds of RPs out there for the A/I missions you defeat for the human. So I'm going to say no. Consider once the air battle over the Baltic/Gotland is done and Russia has gained control of the seas around the island, really reducing Gotland is just a matter of mopping up the defenders. Not saying they wouldn't fight gallantly, but I really think it's a Russian victory if they tried it.

Let me look at it, but my initial thoughts are no.


Ok, Thanks for the reply :)

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 21
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 3:48:57 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I think adding some Danish F-16s and German Tornado's with the Swedish AF could be a nice little air-to-air battle over the island/Baltic. Have to look at the balance of naval forces. Let me see...

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to ParachuteProne)
Post #: 22
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 4:01:44 PM   
ParachuteProne

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 8/2/2004
Status: offline 		Nice !

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 23
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 4:03:11 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

Any chance for any of these payable on both sides ?


When I started out with scenario design I tried to make them playable from both sides, but I found it to be a lot of work for little gain. For one, you have all kinds of RPs out there for the A/I missions you defeat for the human. So I'm going to say no. Consider once the air battle over the Baltic/Gotland is done and Russia has gained control of the seas around the island, really reducing Gotland is just a matter of mopping up the defenders. Not saying they wouldn't fight gallantly, but I really think it's a Russian victory if they tried it.

Let me look at it, but my initial thoughts are no.



I think one has to consider that NATO will have assets here and there and of course full AWACS coverage.

Just an example of Anti Mine vessels from NATO.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/2957664b-ee05-4515-ac78-f3d6f993cc89?fbclid=IwAR3Bc-qrEl24p8ZUXaue8tdlr65TkF3XL2T0TjCEs69z9EEMKRqJXEdht_w

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 24
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 4:23:08 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I was going to have three or so Baltic States MCM and a few Patrol Craft escape to Sweden and cooperate with Swedish forces. Some mines off Gotland and a mine sweeping operation by the player could be interesting. More reason for Russia to go heavily airmobile though.

One other thing about having a scenario go both ways is, unless you want to do a bunch of Lua scripting, you have to assign loadouts to aircraft and I prefer toe allow the player to do so. If I do go both ways will be one scenario for the Western player and one scenario for Russia.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/13/2022 4:24:55 PM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 25
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 4:27:17 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

I was going to have three or so Baltic States MCM and a few Patrol Craft escape to Sweden and cooperate with Swedish forces. Some mines off Gotland and a mine sweeping operation by the player could be interesting. More reason for Russia to go heavily airmobile though.

One other thing about having a scenario go both ways is, unless you want to do a bunch of Lua scripting, you have to assign loadouts to aircraft and I prefer toe allow the player to do so. If I do go both ways will be one scenario for the Western player and one scenario for Russia.


Make sure to give Sweden plenty of these then :).
https://www.saab.com/products/the-rbs15-family

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 26
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 4:59:12 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Tricks to using one scenario to feed a follow up! Victorious Russian aircraft staging to their new bases in the new "CIS Baltic Republics" as RT is calling them.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 27
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 8:31:56 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		You might want to look into Operation Gudrun based on the books by Wilderäng. He is still very active on Twitter with these Questions.
I think he could provide up to date info on Swedish hardware.

Finland also has 64 new F-35 on order, plus a bunch of F-18. Maybe some of the Baltic Air Assets would rebase to Finland/Sweden if needed?

Still curious how those Air Mobile units would move over Baltic Sea without Air Superiority. At best they might
land some units but I think 80% of those Choppers would be shot down by Air or Ground.

< Message edited by marcusm -- 2/13/2022 8:38:10 PM >

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 28
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/13/2022 8:35:38 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		This one here BeirutDude.

https://corporalfrisk.com/2016/08/26/aar-operation-gudrun/

This could be updated I guess. Patriot is a factor now too.

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 29
RE: Why no updated Baltic/Nordic scenario? - 2/14/2022 12:23:40 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I wouldn't include Finland, as I couldn't see the Russians opening up that huge front if they didn't have to and I doubt Finland would jump in if they could avoid it. Even if Finland were engaged their efforts would be along their border not near Gotland.

I'm going to assume the Russians stopped at the Suwalki Gap and didn't enter/attack into Poland. In this case, they gave the Pole's a guarantee (just as the Baltic attacks commenced) of their territorial integrity if no NATO attack was launched on Kaliningrad or Belarus from Polish territory. Having to make a snap decision Poland did not allow any NATO forces to use their territory and ordered the NATO Forward Forces in SW Poland to exit Poland ASAP.

That leaves the U.S., Germany, Denmark, the UK and Sweden to defend Gotland (with various assets). NATO Standing Forces + Danish/Swedish/German naval assets and air assets.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 2/14/2022 12:35:19 AM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 30
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