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- 10/3/2003 3:55:03 AM

Portuguese Mercenary

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/2/2003
Status: offline

Hi guys, my first post here.

I've been a steel panthers fan since since the very first one ( Steel Panthers I), and i've been playing SPWAW for 6 months now. I have to say that i agree with Ammo sgt.

Even SPI had inconsistencies regarding weaponry between the Germans and the French (the most obvious case but not the only one). It seems there is a trend to nerf down the french weapons due to the fact that some peeps, those "Tiger kitties", feel entitled to roll over the french with ease (more even so against the AI). This is because many have an idea that because of the historical result, wich everybody knows, that the french army (not even limiting myself to tanks here) was inferior in all aspects. This was not so, specially regarding to tanks. The french failure was not on equipment, it was on overall employed strategy.

I do know what i'm talking about because i once thought that the germans did had superior equipment. It was only after i played Panzer general that i got curious about french armor (since i had my *** handed out in a couple of scenarios because of their heavy tanks). And the research i made afterwards brought me to the conclusion that the french armor could have put up a fight if the overall mentality was different.

For german army players, it is annoying to see lots of burning hulks in the map when they first thought that "hey! It's the french! they are going to be so easy...". So they whine a little bit (and there are a lot of german players) and the stats suffer some educated (in marketing, not military science) bending.

About this:

"Assume a best-case scenario, through debate, trial and error, we finally agree on the best set of numbers for all weapons systems involved throughout the OOBs. Then we get to the question leading us back to the beginning: If all the numbers are historically accurate, but the balance of the game suffers greatly, how is that best remedied?"

This is a game and there is a need for balance. But it seems that the balance is getting heavier on only one of the sides :)

(in reply to Vathailos)

Post #: 1

- 10/3/2003 4:28:02 AM

AmmoSgt

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline

Vathailos here is my position on bazookas with hard data straight from US goverment specs and links so you can read for yourself , along with calcualtions and what they are based on http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php%3Fs%3D%26forumid%3D9%26daysprune%3D45%26sortorder%3D%26sortfield%3Dlastpost%26perpage%3D25%26pagenumber%3D1.
Yes I am frustrated , comments like yours , about how you "feel" that bazookas are overrated because they do what they are designed to do , in the way they are designed to do them, trump hard data , as in the above thread, everytime. I like how you specify a "SS crewed Panther " as if that should affect the Pen or accuracy on a Bazooka .
I agree on the part of different sources list slightly different penetration factors for the same weapon , but i do not know of a single source anywhere that rates a German 37mm Gun on a PzIIIe at a higher pen than the 37mm on a PZKpfw 38t (e) like it is now in the game ( back in versions prior to 7.0 maybe 6.1 the Pz38 had the better gun , and in all of the tables I can find they indicate a better pen for the Czech gun) . , and while we can differ on the Pen on a T-34, not only should they be the same Pen wether in German or Russian Service , the Russian had a BR354P AP Subcaliber round that is not inculded in the game which would be the Russian Equivalent to the APCR category ammo with about a 30 % increase in pen over the standard AP category round , just about like the German get with thier APCR that is Inculded in the game . The existence of Russian APCR is not in dispute, it's just not in the game ..
These are fact , you don't like my tone , then don't read facts for emotional content . It's not my tone that bothers folks , it is my facts that nobody yet has even attempted to refute with other facts , they just say they don't like my tone or my attitude ..OK, don't like it, I don't care ..if you differ with my facts dispute the facts . attitude or not, the facts are the facts , it ain't about how you "feel" the pen should be or the accuracy should be , it is how the facts, specs, detail, tests ,trials, say they should be . And the German Gear has been inflated and other nations dumbed down in way to many ways for it to be a simple misunderstanding .. the list grows every time somebody doesn't like my tone and has no facts to say I am wrong .. the mistakes are in the game , they have gotten worse as the versions have progressed , they have gotten worse in specific directions for the Germans and in the other Direction for other nations. Common standard within the game mechanics, that the Germans get, like APCR, are denied other nations. WP for the US is totally doable Main ammo for the US 4.2 Mortar .. but can't do flame indirect fire weapons for the US ( to hard to code ) ( it isn't a code problem actually you make a 4.2 Mortar unit that has the same HE Kill and warhead size as a 4.2 HE and you make it a Flame weapon instead of a Hevay mortar on the OOB editor , it's that simple ) but that is only for the germans , only for the Germans , however the German Wulfraum (which is the indirect fire flame weapon in questions) wasn't indirect fire equiped but it gets it anyway while actual indirect fire units like the M8 Scott don't, and actual indirect fire flame weapons like the US 4.2 Mortar which was a WP using weapon can't .. they list grows . Germans get it even if they didn't have it , other nations can't get the same thing even when they did have it .. Guns pentrate better when Germans have them .. not just one, almost every German captured weapon in the game The 37mm on the PzKpfw 38t goes up from 46 in czech service to 56 in German service whats the deal with that ? the 47mm goes up, the T-34 M43 Gun goes up and doesn't get it's APCR in Russian service. German Mortars with 2/3 the range of US Mortars get US range and German 80mm mortar shells with Half the weight of explosive get a higher HE killfactor . US HE Mortar ammo came in a couple of types for the 81mm Mortar the US gets a combo shell with the lightest HE combined with the shortest range and then the German mortar gets inflated to meet the US specs , it happen again and again and again .. I have been pointing this out for 3 years and backing it time after time with facts .. no facts are posted to refute any of it and the Inflation of the Germans contiunes unabated .

_____________________________

"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

(in reply to Vathailos)

Post #: 2