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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: quick question...

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RE: quick question... - 6/15/2004 8:31:01 PM

tsimmonds

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quote:

Watch it when you send your subs into bases with CD guns if trying to transport troops or lay mines!

*while we are on the sub topic*

Great news!

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Post #: 31

RE: quick question... - 6/15/2004 8:33:20 PM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

Are you suggesting that this is the quickest way to make a Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea?

Most certainly! Just ask the 4 subs I sent to mine Midway with that Marines CD unit!

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 32

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 12:37:36 AM

LTCMTS

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1. What four subs? The only minelaying subs the IJN had before mid-42 were the four I-121 class with their obsolescent Type 88 mines. The only other mines laid by IJN subs were captured Brit mag mines from Singapore.

2. Sink them how? The whole purpose of minelaying subs is to lay the mines underwater from the sub. How do CD guns sink a sub at or below periscope depth?

(in reply to SamRo)

Post #: 33

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 12:40:41 AM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

How do CD guns sink a sub at or below periscope depth?

Stick your periscope up and find out

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Post #: 34

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 12:41:07 AM

Nikademus

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i believe that was a bug......subs should not be hit by CD guns

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Post #: 35

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 12:59:42 AM

Xargun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

i believe that was a bug......subs should not be hit by CD guns

I was wondering how a simple task of laying mines would expose a sub to coastal guns. Now if a sub came to the surface to attack some enemy shipping - then the guns would blast it apart in moments.

Also (for LTCMTS) I believe they have made no difference between sub classes for the purpose of laying mines. Someone else more knowledgable on this can correct me if I'm wrong.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 6/15/2004 11:00:40 PM >

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 36

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 1:04:24 AM

kaleun

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AFAIK all subs types could, and did lay mines. There were specialized mine deployment subs i.e. Argonaut that had mine "bays" so could carry lots more mines, but they IIRC they did not have much of an effect.
In the game, all subs can carry mines, if I am not missing something.

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Post #: 37

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 1:27:35 AM

Mr.Frag

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Not missing anything. Any sub can be sent out with mines instead of torpedoes. Certain subs also have native mine capacity without giving up their torpedoes.

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Post #: 38

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 1:53:41 AM

kaleun

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picky picky: Often subs carried mines in the torpedo tubes, and regular torpedoes for reloads.

We shall now proceed to pick the nits

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Post #: 39

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 2:02:06 AM

LTCMTS

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OK, we went through this before. The IJN had only four subs, the KRS (Kirai-Sen) class, I-121 through I-124, copies of the German U 122 minelaying sub of WWI. They laid Type 88 mines (copies of German mines) from mine specific tubes at the stern. This is stated so in Bagnasco, Conway's, Jentschua, Jung & Mickel. Boyd and Yoshida in "The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II" states that other than minelaying ops by the KRS class earl;y in the war. The only other minelaying mission was by I-6 off Brisbane on 13 Mar 43 using German acoustic mines laid through her torpedo tubes. Finally, according to Campbell, the IJN tried to develop a sub minelaying capability, but the Type 1 self-propelled anti-harbor mine, two of which were launched from the marker bouy locker of I-class subs, blew up the test sub. They produced 600 copies of the USN Mk.10 Mod.1 moored contact mine by early 1945, and a limited number of German magnetic and acoustic mines by mid-1945 which suffered from severe reliability problems. Thus, the game is wrong in giving this ability universally to all subs. Not to mention that British and Dutch subs (other than the specifically designed minelayers) were limited by the small number of TT laid M Mk.II magnetic mines produced and the limitation to the "T" and "S" class subs.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 40

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 5:11:45 AM

tsimmonds

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quote:

the game is wrong in giving this ability universally to all subs

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

i believe that was a bug......subs should not be hit by CD guns

I was wondering how a simple task of laying mines would expose a sub to coastal guns

So, since the game giveth a universal capability where none existed, the game also taketh away by kicking your ass if you try to abuse said capability. Seems reasonable to me; if you don't want gamey CD guns to smoke your gamey minelaying subs, stick to historical missions.

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Post #: 41

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 9:59:45 AM

Rainerle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Most certainly! Just ask the 4 subs I sent to mine Midway with that Marines CD unit!

Well how often did that happen in the war ? I assume not nearly as often as one sub launching torpedos at another. And, to somebody else, no I never imagined pictures from 'Hunt for Red October' in my mind, I'm asking for a routine where subs who get to close to each other have a chance to do do each other harm (chances depending on skill, luck, equipment, previous sightings etc.)

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Post #: 42

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 10:04:54 AM

Joel Billings

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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Wait a minute.

You mean this game will have NO FLYING SUBS?

That's it; I quit.

Thanks guys, you all just made my day. LOL

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 43

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 2:10:42 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Watch it when you send your subs into bases with CD guns if trying to transport troops or lay mines!

*while we are on the sub topic*

Interesting.. very interesting...

BTW, did submarine had to be on surface to lay mines in WWII?

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 44

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 2:13:24 PM

tiredoftryingnames

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I believe they launched out the torpedo tubes while submerged. My guess is it would be dangerous to be on the surface when you launched them as you might hit one since they'll not falling behind you if you launch them from your bow tubes.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 45

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 2:28:56 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

I believe they launched out the torpedo tubes while submerged. My guess is it would be dangerous to be on the surface when you launched them as you might hit one since they'll not falling behind you if you launch them from your bow tubes.

I also thought this was the case... but why did Raymond then write that in WitP CDs from shore can attacks subs when they are laying mines?

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to tiredoftryingnames)

Post #: 46

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 2:49:17 PM

barbarrossa

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When you load mines onto subs in UV it does say "loading mines in torpedo tubes", so I don't see the reason for having to surface the sub to launch them.

But I'll live with the threat from CD if that is indeed the case.

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Post #: 47

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 3:16:01 PM

pry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

I believe they launched out the torpedo tubes while submerged. My guess is it would be dangerous to be on the surface when you launched them as you might hit one since they'll not falling behind you if you launch them from your bow tubes.

I also thought this was the case... but why did Raymond then write that in WitP CDs from shore can attacks subs when they are laying mines?

Leo "Apollo11"

It was a bug that popped up after a tweak to the CD gun routine while shooting at invasion forces and ships and it has long since been fixed, subs on minelaying missions are considered to be submerged and are no longer shot at by CD guns. Relax Leo...

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Post #: 48

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 3:25:21 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pry

It was a bug that popped up after a tweak to the CD gun routine while shooting at invasion forces and ships and it has long since been fixed, subs on minelaying missions are considered to be submerged and are no longer shot at by CD guns. Relax Leo...

Thanks for info!

Ahhh... I am relieved...

Raymond - shame on you to spread such things around!

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to pry)

Post #: 49

RE: quick question... - 6/16/2004 7:16:21 PM

LTCMTS

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The Dutch minelaying subs used single mine vertical tubes which laid the mines below the keel. The British, Japanese and US minelaying subs used horizontal tubes at the stern, as they were all based on German WWI minelaying subs. US fleet subs had stern tubes from which to launch mines, Brit subs did not and this did cause problems as far as depth and speed at which mines could be laid.

(in reply to tiredoftryingnames)

Post #: 50