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Mega Campaigns=not "dynamical"?

 
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Mega Campaigns=not "dynamical"? - 1/13/2002 5:26:00 PM   
Scorpion_sk

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Hi, Iīve been having fun with MCDF, but now a thought occurred to me. I was really looking forward to taking Tobruk and continuing the drive to Egypt with Rommel, but alas it seems Rommel doesnīt get his jewel no matter how hard I try or how decisive victories I get in the key battles. Surely it was not *impossible* for him to get Tobruk? This raised a question: have the Mega Campaigns designed so that the outcome is never in question, you will always receive exactly the same historical result every time?
Meaning the only thing you can win is personal glory. I must say that is just a bit disappointing, because I envisioned the MCs to be exactly the opposite (having lots of scenarios, say 120 in DF but the player only plays 40 or so). I do think that North Africa is a theathre where individual successes like these would have made a difference. After all, the germans only had two divisions there along with the italians... and the number of enemy tanks Iīve knocked out is beyond measure. For example I knocked out the contignent of Matilda IIs in Tobruk at least two times out (I started to wonder when I had destroyed more than there was to start with and still they kept coming). Still, the MCs are fun and I do not regret ordering MCLV and MCWT. I assume Army Group South is much too big a unit for the playerīs small command to make any kind of major impact.
But what about the compact and vaunted MCWT?
Any chance of changing the outcome there?
Oh well itīll just be something to add to CL and CA.

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- 1/14/2002 4:54:00 AM   
Scorpion_sk

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		No, no, donīt get me wrong, I love the MCs, itīs just that....ah..making history in historical games is what gives the game its "great flavor". And, I think thatīs what reads in the MC title screen "Make history....or be history" Unfortunately weīre unable to do the former in this case.

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Post #: 2
- 1/14/2002 8:58:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		THere are definately ahistoric twists, an invaision of Malta for instance. WB would have to answer about how to get Tobruk, but I'm pretty sure its possible, just not sure how

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Post #: 3
- 1/14/2002 2:14:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		It is a very good question and certainly deserves an answer. I gave capturing Tobruk serious thought. We could have done it. I decided not to do so. This is why. The capture of Tobruk in 1941 could have changed the course of the entire war. Alexandria, Turkey..gosh, even the southern reaches of the Ukraine are conceivable. But considering the possibility of a 1942 MC on Rommel at that time, I felt like it might go off on a tangent that would have no end. Another problem is that the Mega Campaign system is limited as to how much branching off we can do. It is technical in nature so you'll have to take my word for it on this one. So based on those thoughts, and to keep the feel of the frustration of the DAK and its commander I opted not to take Tobruk. Right or wrong, it was my call. Now as to dynamics, there are over 140 scenarios in MC Desert Fox. I designed about 40+ of them myself. There is plenty to play here. Remember each option in each list is another scenario, some similar, some quite different. The stealing of Matildas, the raid on the train, the seaborne assault of Tobruk, the retaking of prisoners, the raid on Malta that Paul mentioned, there are tons of "what ifs," in the campaign. And there are ways to keep independent saves all the way through so that you could enter the campaign at any point without having to play all of it. I'm not supposed to even hint at that, but it only seems fair to give you that option. You can do it by saving before each scenario, labeling it appropriately, then moving it to another file folder. When you want to play it, move it back. Now I'll catch a lot of heck for suggesting this, but they'll never find me . Really though, Scorpion, there ia a lot of life still left in the campaign, adventures you have not discovered, optional battles, some real nifty ones, you have not tried. In other words, there is much more to a Mega Campaign than one can even grasp sometimes. I hope you continue to enjoy it. That was the purpose of the MC-DF team. Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 4
- 1/14/2002 11:59:00 PM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I think it's also fair to point out that you are only a reinforced-company commander. As to taking Tobruk, there are logistic, political and operational-level constructs beyond your control (as in real life, one's concerns are on the mission and staying alive each day). Your relative success and failure is contingent on achieving the objectives set by regiment/division NOT the campaign itself. Crefeld's "Supplying War" has a good overview on why North Africa was a foregone conclusion.

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Post #: 5
- 1/15/2002 5:56:00 AM   
Scorpion_sk

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Good points, WB and Grumble. Now, like I said, Iīm not bored by the MCs at all-oh no, thatīs why I ordered all of them. However this was just a bit of positive critical feedback to keep in mind for future endeavors. Sure-itīll take a lot of work and creativity to create entirely new, but feasible "what if"-scenarios on a larger scale (like you said, for example: Rommel in Caucasus) Itīs a part of designing to make these hypothetical scenarios and conclusions feasible from a historical point of view too.
More "representation" by the player, bigger forces (and thus fewer, bigger battles on a larger time frame) and smaller, or smaller, more clearly defined operations (like the Battle of the Bulge) should be some of the options to make it possible for the historical "loser" to turn the tables (which Iīm pretty sure many of us want to do). Another good option thatīd enable the one of the future campaigns (be it for whatever engine, CL or CA or another game) to be very dynamical would be to give up on scripted battles, and use a powerful battle generator to create the battles in the campaign. However, itīd be up to the campaign designer to write the situational briefings and other documentation, and enable a dynamic campaign map (With supply lines etc.)
and script all the campaign happenings (hypothetical or those that have a historical basis) and use them as a guideline for modifying the settings of the battlemaker for each battle (points, nationality, terrain, mission etc. etc.)
Thus scenarios would always have an impact on the campaign (losses would cause the losing side to be weaker until replaced or reinfoced, major victories or a string of moderate ones would cause ground to be won/lost, whatever....and the player could still make the kind of choices that are in the MCs).
Do you catch my drift? This, in my mind, would enable the campaign to go on until a conclusion, be it for good or bad, could be achieved, and itīd enable Rommel to take the Canal....and go beyond it.
Iīm continuing to have fun with the MCs and hope you have fun designing campaigns in the future, too. Theyīre very important parts of the wargame for me (I canīt stay interested in single scenarios...multiplaying excepted) and for many of us, too. Still, I donīt think Iīll be returning to the desert anytime soon after Iīve shaken the dust and sand out of my boots and headed to the Steppes...and from there to the jungle-hells. Iīm pretty sure itīs time for something else after that

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Post #: 6
- 1/15/2002 5:59:00 AM   
Scorpion_sk

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Oh, by the way, WB, as an unscrupulous player I have, of course, tried the abovementioned method of backing up my campaign progress, but have been unsuccessful at it. Whatīs the correct subdirectory to back up?
Iīve tried the one under Megacam (save) (ie. backing it up and trying to revert to it) but it doesnīt seem to be working.

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Post #: 7
- 1/15/2002 10:11:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Scorpion, read carefully my idea here, old friend.
When you save, you must copy that save to another directory of your choosing. You can make one in SPWAW and call it MegaSaves. Why? Because each time you save in the game, it will overwrite the other save file. This is a compicated little system designed to keep you from doing what I am suggesting. For example, after playing El Agheila One, save it as Agheila1 if you wish. It has to be an 8 letter file name (shades of DOS). When you finish, say the first battle for Tobruk, save it as Tobruk1 in your regular save folder and then copy it to the Megasave folder. Then later you go back when you want and move that Tobruk1 save file into your regular Save file inside Megacam. Then open MC-DF-41, click on load and load 'er up. It should do just fine, unless they slipped in something to stop this without my knowing about it. Thanks for the kind comments about enjoying the campaign. IF we had had the tools at the time, I probably would have done something on the same idea you mentioned. I'm sure that capability will be included in the Megacampaign system for Combat Leader. Just as the game will be new, so the Megacam system will be. It should offer more of what you suggest here. Wild Bill
=================

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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