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RE: OOB Comments - 9/24/2004 9:22:43 PM   
Montbrun


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I'm very surprised that the USMC divisional Tank Battalions aren't included - see the first page of this thread for my input on this...

Brad

(in reply to Montbrun)
Post #: 271
RE: OOB Comments - 9/24/2004 9:25:25 PM   
Lemurs!


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So why did they decide to give the Marine Corps Parachutists artillery? Just so we could never drop them?

pain in the...

Mike

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Post #: 272
RE: OOB Comments - 9/24/2004 10:00:51 PM   
Montbrun


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Good point, if the load cost is less than 7, it can be "airlifted." The 75mm Pack Howitzers have a load cost of 9. Back to the Editor....LOL

Brad

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Post #: 273
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 12:57:50 AM   
Williamb

 

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I readily admit I didnt know who was or wasnt in the game just thought Id post list to suggest who might be put in if they are missing.

I knew some were.

So some more for anyone who wants to add them.


GALER, ROBERT EDWARD

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Marine Corps, Marine Fighter Sqdn. 244. Place: Solomon Islands Area. Maj. Galer availed himself of every favorable attack opportunity, individually shooting down 11 enemy bomber and fighter aircraft over a period of 29 days. Though suffering the extreme physical strain attendant upon protracted fighter operations at an altitude above 25,000 feet, the squadron under his zealous and inspiring leadership shot down a total of 27 Japanese planes.

GILMORE, HOWARD WALTER

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy. Citation: For distinguished gallantry and valor above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Growler during her Fourth War Patrol in the Southwest Pacific from 10 January to 7 February 1943.


GORDON, NATHAN GREEN

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Navy, commander of Catalina patrol plane. Place and date: Bismarck Sea, 15 February 1944. Citation: For extraordinary heroism above and beyond the call of duty as commander of a Catalina patrol plane in rescuing personnel of the U.S. Army 5th Air Force shot down in combat over Kavieng Harbor in the Bismarck Sea, 15 February 1944

HALL, WILLIAM E.

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, Junior Grade, U.S. Naval Reserve. Place and date: Coral Sea, 7 and 8 May 1942.Citation: For extreme courage and conspicuous heroism in combat above and beyond the call of duty as pilot of a scouting plane in action against enemy Japanese forces in the Coral Sea on 7 and 8 May 1942.

HANSON, ROBERT MURRAY

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve. Other Navy awards: Navy Cross, Air Medal. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life and above and beyond the call of duty as fighter pilot attached to Marine Fighting Squadron 215 in action against enemy Japanese forces at Bougainville Island, 1 November 1943; and New Britain Island, 24 January 1944.

HAWKINS, WILLIAM DEAN

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps. Citation: For valorous and gallant conduct above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of a Scout Sniper Platoon attached to the Assault Regiment in action against Japanese-held Tarawa in the Gilbert Island, 20 and 21 November 1943.

HERRING, RUFUS G.

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Naval Reserve, LCI (G) 449. Place and date: Iwo Jima, 17 February 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of LCI (G) 449 operating as a unit of LCI (G) Group 8, during the preinvasion attack on Iwo Jima on 17 February 1945.

HUTCHINS, JOHNNIE DAVID

Rank and organization: Seaman First Class, U.S. Naval Reserve. Citation: For extraordinary heroism and conspicuous valor above and beyond the call of duty while serving on board a Landing Ship, Tank, during the assault on Lae, New Guinea, 4 September 1943.

KEARBY, NEEL E. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Colonel, U.S. Army Air Corps. Place and date: Near Wewak, New Guinea, 11 October 1943. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy, Col. Kearby volunteered to lead a flight of 4 fighters to reconnoiter the strongly defended enemy base at Wewak


KIDD, ISAAC CAMPBELL

Rank and organization: Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy. Born: 26 March 1884, Cleveland, Ohio. Appointed from: Ohio. Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and complete disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. Rear Adm. Kidd immediately went to the bridge and, as Commander Battleship Division One, courageously discharged his duties as Senior Officer Present Afloat until the U.S.S. Arizona,

still more !

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Post #: 274
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 2:31:14 AM   
Williamb

 

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From: Dayton Ohio
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And the final Group (Phew)


McCANDLESS, BRUCE

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy, U.S.S. San Francisco. Place and date: Battle off Savo Island, 1213 November 1942. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and exceptionally distinguished service above and beyond the call of duty as communication officer of the U.S.S. San Francisco in combat with enemy Japanese forces in the battle off Savo Island, 1213 November 1942.

McGUlRE, THOMAS B., JR. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps, 13th Air Force. Place and date: Over Luzon, Philippine Islands, 2526 December 1944. . Citation: He fought with conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity over Luzon, Philippine Islands. Voluntarily, he led a squadron of 15 P-38's as top cover for heavy bombers striking Mabalacat Airdrome, where his formation was attacked by 20 aggressive Japanese fighters

MUNRO, DOUGLAS ALBERT

Rank and organization: Signalman First Class, U.S. Coast Guard Accredited to Washington. Citation: For extraordinary heroism and conspicuous gallantry m action above and beyond the call of duty as Petty Officer in Charge of a group of 24 Higgins boats, engaged in the evacuation of a battalion of marines trapped by enemy Japanese forces at Point Cruz Guadalcanal, on 27 September 1942

NININGER, ALEXANDER R., JR.

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, 57th Infantry, Philippine Scouts. Place and date: Near Abucay, Bataan, Philippine Islands, 12 January 1942. 5 February 1942. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy near Abucay, Bataan, Philippine Islands, on 12 January 1942.

O'BRIEN, WILLIAM J.

Rank and organization: Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Army, 1st Battalion, 105th Infantry, 27th Infantry Division. Place and date: At Saipan, Marianas Islands, 20 June through 7 July 1944. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty at Saipan, Marianas Islands, from 20 June through 7 July 1944.


O'HARE, EDWARD HENRY

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Navy. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in aerial combat, at grave risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, as section leader and pilot of Fighting Squadron 3 on 20 February 1942.

O'KANE, RICHARD HETHERINGTON

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy, commanding U.S.S. Tang. Place and date: Vicinity Philippine Islands, 23 and 24 October 1944.

PEASE, HARL, JR. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Captain, U.S. Army Air Corps, Heavy Bombardment Squadron. Place and date: Near Rabaul, New Britain, 6-7 August 1942. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy on 6-7 August 1942. When 1 engine of the bombardment airplane of which he was pilot failed during a bombing mission over New Guinea,

POWERS, JOHN JAMES

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Navy. Citation: For distinguished and conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, while pilot of an airplane of Bombing Squadron 5, Lt. Powers participated, with his squadron, in 5 engagements with Japanese forces in the Coral Sea area and adjacent waters during the period 4 to 8 May 1942.

PRESTON, ARTHUR MURRAY

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Navy Reserve, Torpedo Boat Squadron 33. Place and date. Wasile Bay, Halmahera Island, 16 September 1944. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commander, Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron 33

RAMAGE, LAWSON PATERSON

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy, U.S.S. Parche. Place and date: Pacific, 31 July 1944. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Parche in a predawn attack on a Japanese convoy, 31 July 1944.

ROOKS, ALBERT HAROLD

Rank and organization: Captain, U.S. Navy. Citation: for extraordinary heroism, outstanding courage, gallantry in action and distinguished service in the line of his profession, as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Houston during the period 4 to 27 February 1942,

SARNOSKI, JOSEPH R. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 43rd Bomber Group, Place and date: Over Buka Area, Solomon Islands, 16 June 1943. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action above and beyond the call of duty. On 16 June 1943, 2d Lt. Sarnoski volunteered as bombardier of a crew on an important photographic mapping mission covering the heavily defended Buka area, Solomon Islands.

SCHONLAND, HERBERT EMERY

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy, U.S.S. San Francisco Place and date: Savo Island, 12-13 November 1943. Citation: For extreme heroism and courage above and beyond the call of duty as damage control officer of the U.S.S. San Francisco in action against greatly superior enemy forces in the battle off Savo Island, 12-13 November 1942.

SCOTT, NORMAN

Rank and organization: Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy. Citation: For extraordinary heroism and conspicuous intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty during action against enemy Japanese forces off Savo Island on the night of 11-12 October and again on the night of 12-13 November 1942

SHOMO, WILLIAM A. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps, 82d Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron. Place and date: Over Luzon, Philippine Islands, 11 January 1 945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Maj. Shomo was lead pilot of a flight of 2 fighter planes charged with an armed photographic and strafing mission against the Aparri and Laoag airdromes.

SHOUP, DAVID MONROE

Rank and organization: Colonel, U.S. Marine Corps, commanding officer of all Marine Corps troops on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, and Gilbert Islands, from 20 to 22 November 1943. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of all Marine Corps troops in action against enemy Japanese forces on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, Gilbert Islands, from 20 to 22 November 1943

SMITH, JOHN LUCIAN

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Marine Corps, Marine Fighter Squadron 223, Place and date: In the Solomon Islands area, August-September 1942. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and heroic achievement in aerial combat above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of Marine Fighting Squadron 223 during operations against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands area, August-September 1942.

STREET, GEORGE LEVICK, III

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy, U.S.S. Tirante. Place and date: Harbor of Quelpart Island, off the coast of Korea, 14 April 1945. . Citation. For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Tirante during the first war patrol of that vessel against enemy Japanese surface forces in the harbor of Quelpart Island, off the coast of Korea, on 14 April 1945.

SWETT, JAMES ELMS

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, Marine Fighter Squadron 221, with Marine Aircraft Group 12, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing. Place and date: Solomon Islands area, 7 April 1943. Entered service at: California. Citation: For extraordinary heroism and personal valor above and beyond the call of duty, as division leader of Marine Fighting Squadron 221 with Marine Aircraft Group 12, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing, in action against enemy Japanese aerial forces in the Solomons Islands area, 7 April 1943

VANDEGRIFT, ALEXANDER ARCHER

Rank and organization: Major General, U.S. Marine Corps, commanding officer of the 1st Marine Division. Place and date: Solomon Islands, 7 August to 9 December 1942: For outstanding and heroic accomplishment above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the 1st Marine Division in operations against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands during the period 7 August to 9 December 1942.

VAN VALKENBURGH, FRANKLIN

Rank and organization: Captain, U.S. Navy. Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and complete disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor T.H., by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. As commanding officer of the U.S.S. Arizona,

VAN VOORHIS, BRUCE AVERY

Rank and organization: Lieutenant Commander, U.S. Navy. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Squadron Commander of Bombing Squadron 102 and as Plane Commander of a PB4Y-I Patrol Bomber operating against the enemy on Japanese-held Greenwich Island during the battle of the Solomon Islands, 6 July 1943.

WAINWRIGHT, JONATHAN M.

Rank and organization: General, Commanding U.S. Army Forces in the Philippines. Place and date: Philippine Islands, 12 March to 7 May 1942. Citation: Distinguished himself by intrepid and determined leadership against greatly superior enemy forces. At the repeated risk of life above and beyond the call of duty in his position, he frequented the firing line of his troops where his presence provided the example and incentive that helped make the gallant efforts of these men possible. The final stand on beleaguered Corregidor,

WALKER, KENNETH N. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Brigadier General, U.S. Army Air Corps, Commander of V Bomber Command. Place and date: Rabaul, New Britain, 5 January 1943. Citation: For conspicuous leadership above and beyond the call of duty involving personal valor and intrepidity at an extreme hazard to life. As commander of the 5th Bomber Command during the period from 5 September 1942, to 5 January 1943,

WALSH, KENNETH AMBROSE

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, pilot in Marine Fighting Squadron 124, U.S. Marine Corps. Citation: For extraordinary heroism and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty as a pilot in Marine Fighting Squadron 124 in aerial combat against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands area. Determined to thwart the enemy's attempt to bomb Allied ground forces and shipping at Vella Lavella on 15 August 1943,

WILKINS, RAYMOND H. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps. Place and date: Near Rabaul, New Britain, 2 November 1943. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy near Rabaul, New Britain, on 2 November 1943. Leading his squadron in an attack on shipping in Simpson Harbor, during which intense antiaircraft fire was expected, Maj. Wilkins briefed his squadron so that his airplane would be in the position of greatest risk.

YOUNG, CASSIN

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy.Citation: For distinguished conduct in action, outstanding heroism and utter disregard of his own safety, above and beyond the call of duty, as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Vestal, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii, by enemy Japanese forces on 7 December 1941.

ZEAMER, JAY JR. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps. Place and date: Over Buka area, Solomon Islands, 16 June 1943. Citation: On 16 June 1943, Maj. Zeamer (then Capt.) volunteered as pilot of a bomber on an important photographic mapping mission covering the formidably defended area in the vicinity of Buka, Solomon Islands. While photographing the Buka airdrome. his crew observed about 20 enemy fighters on the field, many of them taking off. Despite the certainty of a dangerous attack by this strong force, Maj. Zeamer proceeded with his mapping run, even after the enemy attack began.

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Post #: 275
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 7:16:46 AM   
SpitfireIX


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From: Fort Wayne IN USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

WTF....Bennion isn't in command of the WeeVee? Wow.... That was something I kinda took for granted. Fuquo isn't in command of the Arizona??? I never checked this, I just assumed that for a historical wargame this would be in... This would make a great addition to Lemurs! scenario.


I thought I posted this a while ago, but evidently my post disappeared in cyberspace. Mervyn Bennion should be the captain of the West Virginia, Franklin Van Valkenburg should be the captain of the Arizona, and George Murray (who is in the database) should be the captain of the Enterprise.

_____________________________

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--Benny Sablan, crewman, USS Enterprise 12/7/41

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Post #: 276
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 11:15:20 PM   
Williamb

 

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From: Dayton Ohio
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I actually fired up the editor and started editing in the leaders.

Did about 20. Some were already in place.

Soon should have all the MOH winners in the game. Also making leader changes like putting Fuchida in Charge of Akaga Zeros, Moving Yamashita, Putting Wainwright in so he can replace MacArthur.

biggest problem I have is with Adm Kidd. He was on Arizona but Fuqua is also there. Might have to move him to another BB.

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Post #: 277
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 11:19:56 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Could seriously use a Sub commander leader pool with more actual leaders in it. Morton nowhere to be seen for example. Need something to help reduce the Allied substandard doctrine.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 9/29/2004 8:57:39 AM >


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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Williamb)
Post #: 278
RE: OOB Comments - 9/25/2004 11:24:44 PM   
dereck


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Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
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I've noticed they have other Naval headquarters. They should have SUBCOMPAC and have VADM Lockwood in charge.

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Post #: 279
RE: OOB Comments - 9/26/2004 6:04:03 AM   
SpitfireIX


Posts: 264
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: Fort Wayne IN USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: William Amos

I actually fired up the editor and started editing in the leaders.

Did about 20. Some were already in place.

Soon should have all the MOH winners in the game. Also making leader changes like putting Fuchida in Charge of Akaga Zeros, Moving Yamashita, Putting Wainwright in so he can replace MacArthur.

biggest problem I have is with Adm Kidd. He was on Arizona but Fuqua is also there. Might have to move him to another BB.


Because the Arizona is not part of a TF on Dec. 7, in game terms Kidd should not be in command of anything, because only task forces have commanders, and not divisions, flotillas, or squadrons.

Another officer I'd like to see included is Theodore Chandler, even though he didn't arrive in the Pacific until October 1944. He was the 4th and last US admiral KIA during WWII.

quote:

On 8 December, Rear Admiral Chandler was shifted to command of CruDiv 4 and flew his flag above Louisville (CA-28). During the voyage from Leyte to Lingayen for the invasion of Luzon, Chandler's cruisers came under heavy Japanese air attacks—mostly by kamikazes. Late in the afternoon of 5 January 1945, a group of 16 suicide planes swooped in on the force then about 100 miles from Manila Bay. One of the four successful kamikazes crashed into Rear Admiral Chandler's flagship at her number 2 turret, but she continued in her mission. The next day, however, the cruiser suffered more severely during a repeat performance. At 1730, another suicide plane plunged into the cruiser's starboard side at the bridge. His explosives wreaked havoc with the flag bridge where Rear Admiral Chandler stood. Horribly burned by gasoline flames, the flag officer responded to the occasion like a true sailor. He manhandled fire hoses alongside enlisted men to stop the flames and then waited his turn for first aid with those same ratings. The admiral, his lungs scorched very severely, was beyond help. He died the next day in spite of the Herculean efforts of the medical department.


Chandler is less well known than Kidd, Scott, and Callaghan because a) he was the only one not to be posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor (he received the Navy Cross) and b) the other three died in famous battles.

Side note--I didn't realize until I was doing some research on "friendly fire" incidents for a post in another thread that the four Isaac C. Kidd class DDGs are nicknamed (besides Khomeini's gift to the US Navy) the Dead Admirals class, because they are named for Kidd, Scott, Callaghan, and Chandler.

_____________________________

"I know Japanese. He is very bad. And tricky. But we Americans too smart. We catch him and give him hell."

--Benny Sablan, crewman, USS Enterprise 12/7/41

(in reply to Williamb)
Post #: 280
RE: OOB Comments - 9/27/2004 4:20:48 PM   
strawbuk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

USMC Raider and Parachute Battalion info:

NOTES:
2) 1st Raider Battalion – activated 1/6/42 in Quantico, VA as “1st Separate Battalion.” Redesignated
1st Raider Battalion 2/16/42. Disbanded 2/1/44 at Guadalcanal (became 1st Bn., 4th Marines).
Redesignated 2nd Raider Battalion 2/19/42. Disbanded 1/31/44 at Guadalcanal (integrated into 4th Marines).
4) 3rd Raider Battalion – activated 9/20/42 in Samoa. Disbanded 2/1/44 at Guadalcanal (became 3rd Bn., 4th Marines).
5) 4th Raider Battalion – activated 10/23/42 in Camp Linda Vista. Disbanded 2/1/44 at Guadalcanal (became 2nd Bn., 4th Marines).


NOTES:
1
5) All Parachute Battalions were used as cadres to create the 5th Marine Division.

[

Brad


Excellent stuff but don't your notes highlight the problem for WITP engine - many of these units get folded into new rgts/divs coming along later? Same problems with some NZ and Indian units? So the OOB design decision is whether to have them early as smaller units or later as big ones. Having both is not on.

Even if it were possible to hardwire in withdrawl of various units (actually , why not, like ship withdrawls...? anyway..) in advance of their new 'parents' appearing on map, you could get game play problems a. unit in middle of key operation for you b. if you have split or 'cadre'd unit how does withdrawl work?

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Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

(in reply to Montbrun)
Post #: 281
RE: OOB Comments - 9/27/2004 4:29:04 PM   
Montbrun


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I've suggested a "Wish List" item giving us the capability of "disbanding" LCUs. This would allow us to set up House Rules, being able to disband units at the appropriate times. This would also allow the disbanding of units to keep the front line units up to strength - not at all ahistorical...

Brad

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 282
RE: OOB Comments - 9/28/2004 4:39:29 AM   
mikemike

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

If we are talking about late war aircraft, there are several British types that should be included:



I must confess I did that post off the cuff, and a lot of it was really off! So I´ve searched my references and came up with a list of aircraft that were delivered to front-line units about the end of the war and so didn´t see combat. They are all missing from the WitP database. There were also some types missing that did see combat. This is the list:

Avro Lincoln
four-engine heavy bomber, successor to Lancaster.
First deliveries May 1945 to Tiger Force units for service in the Far East
2xBrowning 0.5 F
2X20mm Hispano TT
2xBrowning 0.5 R
16000 lbs of bombs
Top speed 295
Cruise 215
Range 2250 miles with full bomb load - should that be 6750 max.?
Ceiling 30475

Blackburn Firebrand TF.4
single-seat single engine carrier-capable torpedo fighter (no kidding!)
From May 1945
Armament: 4x20mm Hispano F, 1 Torpedo
Top speed 340, cruise 256
Range 740
Ceiling 28475

Boeing F8B-1
Single-seat single engine long-range carrier-capable escort fighter
From September 1945
Armament 6x0.5 Browning F or 6x20 mm F, 3.200 lbs of bombs
Top speed 432
Cruise (long-range, I think) 190
Range 2800
Ceiling 37475

de Havilland Hornet F.1
single-seat, two engine long-range fighter
From February 1945
Armament 4x20 mm F, 2000 lbs of bombs
Mvr probably 35-36
Top speed 472
Range 3000
Climb 4600
Ceiling 35000

Hawker Tempest II
single-seat, single engine fighter
From August 1945
Armament 4x20 mm F, 2000 lbs of bombs
Top speed 440
Range 820
Climb 3600
Ceiling 37000

Lavochkin La-9
single seat, single engine fighter (Soviet)
From April 1945
Armament 4xShVaK 20mm F or 4xYVa 23mm F
Top speed 428
Mvr (guess) 36-37
Range 400
Climb 3800
Ceiling 36000

Also missing:
Avro Lancaster
Grumman F7F Tigercat
Grumman F8F Bearcat
Republic P-47N Thunderbolt
NA P-82 Twin Mustang

and from the Japanese side:
Kyushu Q1W Tokai
ASW patrol aircraft
Two Hitachi engines
armed with depth charges
Speed 145, range 830
was apparently successful against U.S subs trying to pass into the Yellow Sea due to a towed MAD sensor (means Magnetic Anomaly Detector, not what you might think), but I guess you can´t model that in WitP.

< Message edited by mikemike -- 9/28/2004 2:43:28 AM >


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Post #: 283
RE: OOB Comments - 9/29/2004 12:40:55 AM   
juliet7bravo

 

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The omission of the "Q1W1 Lorna" is pretty serious because it and the associated specialist ASW air units attached to Grand Escort Command HQ are about the only new tool the IJN player would have available to fight the Allied subs. With an availability of Sept '43, with research a Japanese player could have it into production in early-mid '43...conceivably in time to do some good before his industry/war machine completely collapses due to lack of fuel/resources depending on how his war is going. Didn't have a big impact IRL for various reasons...untrained crews, sitting ducks for Allied fighters, threw away attacking USN ships, to few/to late, ect. Sound aircraft design and concept though, doesn't have to be that way.

The MAD unit (not very good historically, but neither was the Allied version) could be modeled by giving the Lorna's surface search radar a slightly greater effectiveness rating. Of course, since (IIRC) airborne surface search radars aren't modeled in the game, it's a moot point. Don't think that Grand Escort Command HQ or the air units are included anyway...

"The Japanese were making progress in submarine detection. By 1944 they had introduced planes equipped with radar and with magnetic airborne detectors (MAD) and air-dropped, circular running torpedoes. However, so few MAD equipped planes were available that they were called only after lookouts or radar had already sighted a submarine.30 Had the Japanese vigorously pursued more efficient anti-submarine warfare (ASW) methods very early in the War and placed more emphasis on the development and deployment of these new technologies, it might have taken a different turn."

< Message edited by juliet7bravo -- 9/28/2004 7:28:01 PM >

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Post #: 284
RE: OOB Comments - 10/1/2004 3:00:15 AM   
SpitfireIX


Posts: 264
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From: Fort Wayne IN USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX

Scenario 15, version 1.21

Yorktown Class 1943 upgrade

First of all, this upgrade should be available starting in 8/43. The Enterprise arrived at Bremerton on July 20, and entered drydock two days later. The upgrade and repairs of old battle damage required three months. The old battle damage was a minor issue, however--the overwhelming majority of the yard work involved the upgrade.

(See Chapter 15 of The Big E by Edward P. Stafford)

Fuel capacity was increased from 4270 tons to 4814 tons, according to Norman Friedman's U.S. Aircraft Carriers: An Illustrated Design History. However, her endurance should probably stay about the same, as her full-load diplacement increased from 25,484 tons to 29,882 tons. (thanks to Rich Matheson from cv6.org for looking this up for me, as I don't have any of Friedman's books (yet).)

Post-refit armament is somewhat problematic. This is my best guess, from looking at diagrams and photographs. There's a diagram at cv6.org, but the number of 20mm mounts shown doesn't agree with the number given. Stafford agrees that the total number post-refit was 50, and looking at photos from 1944 there are clearly more single 20s than are shown on the diagram.

My opinion, after looking at photos and comparing with the diagram:

Quad 40s: 2xForward, 2xStarboard, 2xPort, 1xAft

Twin 40s: 1xForward, 2xStarboard, 2xPort

Single 20s: 31xStarboard, 15xPort, 4xAft

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with exactly what the firing arcs given in the game are (although I can guess at some of them). The quad 40mm just aft of the island is tough to judge, because part of its arc is obstructed by the crane. I saw one photo that shows it appears to be mounted to fire starboard--there's not even a splinter shield on the port side.


I've had a couple of additional e-mails from Rich Matheson recently, correcting a couple of my misapprehensions and providing additional information. He also sent me an annotated copy of the 1944 armament diagram, which I include here. Two important points: First, the 40mm next to the crane is a twin, and not a quad. Rich stated that installation of a quad was considered, but rejected, as that would have necessatated removal of the crane. Second, among the guns added were 1x2 and 1x3 20mm, but these were quickly removed, for some reason. Even considering this removal, the diagram doesn't quite agree with the numbers given by Friedman and Stafford, but this seems to be the best information available, absent the discovery of a large number of new photos of Enterprise from 1944. One thing I would suggest is adding 3x1 20mm port and 2x1 20mm starboard; some photos of Enterprise suggest to me that the starboard galleries each held an additional 20mm, and the two aft port galleries did likewise.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 285
Japanese Carrier Air Groups - 10/1/2004 6:15:42 PM   
tsimmonds


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It is reported in this thread that the air groups that arrive on Japanese carriers do not check to see whether the aircraft types in the units have entered production yet; they seem to just arrive with free planes. If construction of carriers has been accelerated, it could result in a situation where they can operate with advanced models long before they actually are available. However, there will be no replacements available until the Jills, Judys and Zekes actually enter production. This would make it pointless to accelerate Taiho, the Amagis, and any other CV that arrives with a next-generation air group; a carrier with irreplaceable aircraft is not very much more useful than one with no aircraft. Can this be fixed so that either a check is made to see whether the aircraft are actually in production, or that at least these carriers are scheduled to arrive with Zeros, Vals and Kates?

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Post #: 286
VP-23 twice - 10/3/2004 1:36:51 AM   
BPRE

 

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Hi,

I just noticed that in Scenario 15 1.21 VP-23 appears twice. It's included from the beginning as unit no 1446 and unit no 2309 appears as a reinforcement on January the 20th 1942.

/BPRE

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Post #: 287
RE: Question about Marine F4F Squadrons.. - 10/3/2004 3:07:42 AM   
RevRick


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I don't know, but it seems to me that the USMC F4F squadrons should upgrade to the F4U vice the F6F. I don't have the TOE data, nor an operational history. Has this been checked out. Seems to me that would waste a lot of F4U production, and tax F6F production.

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(in reply to BPRE)
Post #: 288
RE: Question about Marine F4F Squadrons.. - 10/3/2004 6:55:03 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

I don't know, but it seems to me that the USMC F4F squadrons should upgrade to the F4U vice the F6F. I don't have the TOE data, nor an operational history. Has this been checked out. Seems to me that would waste a lot of F4U production, and tax F6F production.


This is an excellent point. I helped with some input for the USMC Squadrons but only provided original aircraft assignments. Here are the general upgrade paths for the Marine Fighter Squadrons:

VMF-111: F4F-3, F4F-4, F4U-1, F4U-1D
VMF-112: *F4F-4, F4U-1, FG-1
VMF-113: *F4U-1, F4U-1D
VMF-114: F4U-1
VMF-115: F4U-1, F4U-1D, FG-1

VMF-121: F4F-4, F4U-1, F4U-1D, FG-1
VMF-122: F4F-4, F4U-1, F3A-1, FG-1
VMF-123: *F4F-4, F3A-1, FG-1
VMF-124: F4U-1, F3A-1, FG-1, F6F-3

VMF-155: *F4U-1

VMF-211: F4F-3, F2A-3, F4F-4, F4U-1
VMF-212: *F4F-4, FM-1, F4U-1, F4U-4
VMF-213: F4U-1, F3A-1, FG-1, F6F-5, F6F-3P
VMF-214: FG-1
VMF-215: F4U-1, FG-1, F6F-5
VMF-216: *F4U-1, F6F-3, F6F-5
VMF-217: F4U-1, F6F-5E
VMF-218: F4U-1D, FG-1

VMF-221: F2A-3, F4F-3, F4F-4, F3A-1, FG-1, F4U-1
VMF-222: *F4U-1, F4F-4
VMF-223: *F4F-4, FM-1, F4U-1, F4U-4
VMF-224: *F4F-4, F4U-1, FG-1
VMF-225: *F4U-1

VMF-311: F4U-1
VMF-312: F4U-1D, FG-1
VMF-313: F4U-1
VMF-314: F4U-1, FG-1

VMF-321: F4U-1, F6F-3, F6F-5
VMF-322: F4U-1, FG-1
VMG-323: F4U-1
VMF-324: F4U-1, FG-1

VMF-422: *F4U-1, FG-1
VMF-441: F4F-4, F4U-1, FG-1
VMF-451: F3A-1, FG-1
VMF-452: FG-1

VMF-511: F4U-1, F6F-5/5N
VMF-512: F4U-1, FG-1
VMF-513: F4U-1, F3A-1
VMF-514: F4U-1, FG-1, F6F-3, F6F-5

VMF(N)-531: *PV-1N (Later F7F-2N)
VMF(N)-532: F6F-3N
VMF(N)-533: F6F-3N, F6F-5N
VMF(N)-534: F6F-3N
VMF(N)-541: F6F-3N, F6F-5N
VMF(N)-542: F6F-3N, F6F-5N
VMF(N)-543: F6F-3N, F6F-5N

* indicates earlier types were used for very short periods or prior to deployment to the pacific.

F3A and FG were Corsairs made by other manufacturers.

< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 10/3/2004 10:36:00 AM >

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 289
Change Update - 10/3/2004 7:41:45 PM   
pry


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OK Folks, All the data base changes that are going into Patch 1.3 have been turned in for incorporation into the patch. (No I don't know when it will be released but the word soon comes to mind. )

All comments/suggestions in this thread have been archived and the ones not acted upon in this patch for one reason or another may be re- examined for a future patch.

Once we get the OK I will post the full list of changes to the data bases for Patch 1.3 which covers 114 topics with many thousands of individual changes/corrections spread across all 16 scenarios as they apply. Rich Dionne and I did as much as we physically could in the time available to us and are now due for a short well deserved R&R to catch up on lots of lost sleep.

We will close this thread and start a new one after you all have had a chance to digest the changes in 1.3

The only issues that are not subject to be revisited are the ones labeled DOA on page 1 of this thread.

Thanks to everyone who provided comments and suggestions to help fix errors and make this game even better for all of us.

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Post #: 290
RE: Change Update - 10/4/2004 2:33:28 AM   
Bradley7735


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Pry....

You da man!!

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Post #: 291
RE: Change Update - 10/11/2004 11:29:24 PM   
pad152

 

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Pry

Is there a OOB issue with Para units with 37mm ATG that can't be airlifted? In UV Para units had mortars and 75 mm Pack Howitzers that could be airlifted.

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Post #: 292
RE: OOB Comments - 10/11/2004 11:50:54 PM   
bgibs

 

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The CVE Block Island has no air group. Did anyone catch this?

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Post #: 293
P-70A Havoc production - 10/12/2004 12:34:54 AM   
BPRE

 

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Don't know if this counts as an OOB issue or something else but the Replacement rate for the P-70 Havoc is set to 100 in version 1.21. For the P-61 it's only 20.

I found a website, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p70.html, that lists the total amount produced and converted from other models as approximately 260 aircraft.

Isn't a rate of 100 a bit too high?

Regards
BPRE

(in reply to pry)
Post #: 294
RE: Change Update - 10/12/2004 3:50:25 AM   
pry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Pry

Is there a OOB issue with Para units with 37mm ATG that can't be airlifted? In UV Para units had mortars and 75 mm Pack Howitzers that could be airlifted.


Not that I am aware of... any device with a load cost of 7 or less should be able to be airlifted, and the 37mm AT is only 5 so it should be getting transported with the rest of the unit if it is not then that may be a bug... Got a save???

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Post #: 295
RE: OOB Comments - 10/12/2004 3:51:51 AM   
pry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bgibs

The CVE Block Island has no air group. Did anyone catch this?


No you are the first... it's now on my new list for 1.4...

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Post #: 296
RE: Change Update - 10/12/2004 4:49:43 AM   
pad152

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pry

ORIGINAL: pad152

Pry

Is there a OOB issue with Para units with 37mm ATG that can't be airlifted? In UV Para units had mortars and 75 mm Pack Howitzers that could be airlifted.


Not that I am aware of... any device with a load cost of 7 or less should be able to be airlifted, and the 37mm AT is only 5 so it should be getting transported with the rest of the unit if it is not then that may be a bug... Got a save???


Pry

The issue is this, the 1st and 2nd Japanese Para units (starting location in Kiungahan) in Scen#15 start out with a 37mm ATG (load cost 5) they quickly upgrade to a 47mm ATG (load cost 7). The 47mm ATG can not be moved by air!

(in reply to pry)
Post #: 297
RE: Change Update - 10/12/2004 5:57:08 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Just noticed...no big deal. AV 1 Wright was a unique class, yet is listed as a Curtiss.

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(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 298
RE: Change Update - 10/12/2004 2:30:24 PM   
pry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

quote:

ORIGINAL: pry

ORIGINAL: pad152

Pry

Is there a OOB issue with Para units with 37mm ATG that can't be airlifted? In UV Para units had mortars and 75 mm Pack Howitzers that could be airlifted.


Not that I am aware of... any device with a load cost of 7 or less should be able to be airlifted, and the 37mm AT is only 5 so it should be getting transported with the rest of the unit if it is not then that may be a bug... Got a save???


Pry

The issue is this, the 1st and 2nd Japanese Para units (starting location in Kiungahan) in Scen#15 start out with a 37mm ATG (load cost 5) they quickly upgrade to a 47mm ATG (load cost 7). The 47mm ATG can not be moved by air!


OK got ya the 47mm is the problem will check into this

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(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 299
RE: Change Update - 10/12/2004 2:35:01 PM   
bgibs

 

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Joined: 7/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

quote:

ORIGINAL: pry

ORIGINAL: pad152

Pry

Is there a OOB issue with Para units with 37mm ATG that can't be airlifted? In UV Para units had mortars and 75 mm Pack Howitzers that could be airlifted.


Not that I am aware of... any device with a load cost of 7 or less should be able to be airlifted, and the 37mm AT is only 5 so it should be getting transported with the rest of the unit if it is not then that may be a bug... Got a save???


Pry

The issue is this, the 1st and 2nd Japanese Para units (starting location in Kiungahan) in Scen#15 start out with a 37mm ATG (load cost 5) they quickly upgrade to a 47mm ATG (load cost 7). The 47mm ATG can not be moved by air!




There is something wrong with this rule. I air transported an entire aviation support unit from Dacca to Mandalay. Aviation support has a load cost of 10 in the database and the Support has a load cost of 20. Both are above the rule limit.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 300
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