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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Poor path finding? Page: [1]
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Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 8:32:35 AM   
MadDawg

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Or is there a reason this is happening that Im not aware of? Im trying to order a task force to go from Rabaul to Buin and this is the course they have been given. Ive tried it a couple of times with th same result.





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< Message edited by MadDawg -- 7/30/2004 6:35:07 AM >
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RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 8:37:20 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's a bit bizarre. I'd think they would take the strait and then north of Buka.

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RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 8:56:37 AM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		hmm wonder whats the problem my tf's move right there

what scenario you playing and what type of tf are you trying to move?




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Post #: 3
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 8:56:41 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I wonder if there's an american sub in that strait?

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RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 8:59:44 AM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		i just tried it and had 2 subs and 2 american dd's wandering all around the straits

no problems

maybe certain tf types are prone to being cowardly? not sure - tried it with bombard escort and transport


ooooh, here's another question, are you able to set a DH to the hex south of Rabaul? the one south of that? whithout going around?

< Message edited by carnifex -- 7/30/2004 2:03:15 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 9:18:06 AM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		This will take a little longer than just going straight to Buin, but you could try setting your TF on retirement allowed, going to the hex just southeast of Rabaul, with your home port set for Buin. So when the TF enters the destination hex, on the next pulse it should "retire" straigh to Buin. Once you are in the open water, heading towards Bouganville, you should be able to reset the destination and home port correctly.

Not quite what you want, but shorter than going all the way around New Ireland.

I have noticed this same issue with TFs around the Phillipines/Borneo. They don't want to move between islands for some reason, and go around the long way.

It's nice to know we have stuff to push for in the next patch, though.

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Post #: 6
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 10:20:07 AM   
MadDawg

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks esteban, thats actually what I did to get around this . There does seem to be something a little odd here. It was the carrier task force if I recall correctly, and it would do this if I set it to any hex over in that area (I didnt actually want it to go to buin).

I guess its another one to stick in the bug report forum unless any of the beta testers or others have any ideas?

Dawg

< Message edited by MadDawg -- 7/30/2004 8:26:56 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 2:18:27 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		My bet would be that the first TF has a Carrier in it and the second one does not. Due to the disadvantage carriers receive during combat in SW hexes, the AI tries to avoid them. We've tried to get this to work better. It’s a dang if you do and dang you don't problem. We would get blasted if the AI keeps leaving your carriers in shallow water.

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Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


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Post #: 8
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 2:34:38 PM   
MadDawg

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Kid!

Out of interest though, wouldnt it take the path between Rabaul and Buka if need be, as that is open water? As I often sent my carriers out from Rabaul to areas east of buin to wait for incoming task forces, this is actully posing a bit of a problem as is.

Dawg

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Post #: 9
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 3:03:50 PM   
goodwood


Posts: 130
Joined: 8/2/2003
From: Pakenham OZ
Status: offline 		I betya waypoints would solve this prob

(in reply to MadDawg)
Post #: 10
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:29:49 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwood

I betya waypoints would solve this prob



waypoints ain't never go'na to happen.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to goodwood)
Post #: 11
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:35:05 PM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwood

I betya waypoints would solve this prob



waypoints ain't never go'na to happen.


But we can dream, can't we??

(in reply to siRkid)
Post #: 12
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:35:45 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

Thanks for the info Kid!

Out of interest though, wouldnt it take the path between Rabaul and Buka if need be, as that is open water? As I often sent my carriers out from Rabaul to areas east of buin to wait for incoming task forces, this is actully posing a bit of a problem as is.

Dawg


Gary is back to working on the AI so if you send me a save with step-by-step instructions on how to repeat/see the problem I'll get it to him. I would like to see the AI do a better job of this.

sirkid@cfl.rr.com

< Message edited by Kid -- 7/30/2004 5:36:22 PM >

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Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


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Post #: 13
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:38:03 PM   
mark24

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 8/4/2002
Status: offline 		Hi Kid,

I would've thought carriers would be at an advantage in shallow hexes, submarines being at a disadvantage... Why are they at a disadvantage?

Mark

(in reply to siRkid)
Post #: 14
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:51:31 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		No maneuver room for flight ops.

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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to mark24)
Post #: 15
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 7:54:25 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mark24

Hi Kid,

I would've thought carriers would be at an advantage in shallow hexes, submarines being at a disadvantage... Why are they at a disadvantage?

Mark

It's not so much shallow water hexes as it is coastal hexes. Less sea room to conduct flight ops.

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Post #: 16
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/30/2004 11:57:50 PM   
MadDawg

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for your time Kid - I will see if I can replicate the problem!

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Post #: 17
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/31/2004 12:39:52 AM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwood

I betya waypoints would solve this prob



Well in a game with 12 bases (end points) yea, waypoints could solve a lot of these types of issues. What are there in this game? 450+ bases of which 80% have sea access? Now imagine all the combinations and permutations possible to get all possible base to base paths (basically 400!, ...that's factorial for those who know what that is...). Don't have a scientifc calculator handy but that's probably hundreds of MILLIONS of possible combinations! To apply fixed or even dyanamic/intelligent waypoints to that is undoable.

But if the system is smart enough to detect enemy air power build ups and dynamically route around them as the TF's approach, why can't it just create its zigzag/dogleg path from the get-go if the computer knows airpower is concentrated on the direct route path?

But pathing is only part of this problem. The AI/Computer player system really needs two separate base supply algorithms. A "safe" base supply routine, and an "unsafe" base supply routine. It still needs to avoid en-route enemy zones of control on the way to a safe endpoint, but if going to an unsafe endpoint, it needs to send AK's and TK's with heafty escorts or even a CV escort TF. Such a TF would probably plow right through enemy ZOC's as well, as the idea of supplying forward bases in conflict is to "supply at all costs and will all posible speed", anyway....

< Message edited by ZOOMIE1980 -- 7/30/2004 10:42:34 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/31/2004 1:10:22 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Zoomie, your post just gave me a headache; and I do know what 400! mean. It's worse than handling the japanese economy!.
I think I'll stick to the retirement allowed and rebasing system. It works most of the time.

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 19
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/31/2004 2:41:58 AM   
gunnergoz


Posts: 447
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: San Diego CA
Status: offline 		Was it by chance a cargo TF? I seem to recall reading that they will not be routed into harms way or somesuch.

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...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
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Post #: 20
RE: Poor path finding? - 7/31/2004 3:07:06 AM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mark24

Hi Kid,

I would've thought carriers would be at an advantage in shallow hexes, submarines being at a disadvantage... Why are they at a disadvantage?

Mark



Irrelevant is correct I should have said coastal hexes. Either I've been at this for too long or I'm getting old.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to mark24)
Post #: 21
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