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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein!

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Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/7/2006 11:45:26 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Sounds like I'm going to get my HQ's back

Barges evacuated parts of the Naval HQ today.
Good to have you back Ken, finally sorted out your ISP problems?

No less than 5 enemy divisions + a variety of support units unloaded at Kwajalein today!
Enemy losses were moderate and they suffered some 4000 casualties in the attack. More importantly,
the forts didn't go down. So maybe Andy is in for a protracted struggle to capture the place?

Would be great if we could wear down 5 enemy division for relatively little cost!

The 80 Betties put on naval search at 30k feet spotted A LOT of ships today but didn't hit anything.
Soo, I've lowered altitude to 6k feet...expecting big losses but perhaps we can hit something? Quite a few
convoys moving in and out of the area now so it's time to bring in aditional small naval bomber formations.

KB is still in port, trying to sort the different air groups! 700 ac have been loaded.
Using the time to strengthen all my bases in the DEI, NG and PI. Not many 'loop holes' left now.

Today I managed to move a damaged destroyer from Guinea - it was 'trapped' in Hollandia for a month with
a sys damage of 70. Flotation was first at 70 and I feared the ship should sink in the size 3 port, but slowly
slowly flooding was brought under control and the ship should reach Palau in a couple of days.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/11/43

Sub Attacks

Sub attack at 21,47

Japanese Ships
AP Meizan Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Spearfish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombardments

Naval bombardment of Kwajalein, at 79,79

Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City
CA Canberra
CA Minneapolis
CA Chester
CA Wichita
BB California

Japanese ground losses:
951 casualties reported
Guns lost 9

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 34
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Kwajalein, at 79,79

Allied Ships
BB Idaho

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported

Runway hits 2
Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Kwajalein, at 79,79

Allied Ships
CL Helena
CL Concord
CL Emerald
BB Alabama
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 14
Port hits 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Kwajalein, at 79,79

Allied Ships
CL Richmond
CL Tromp
BB Colorado

Japanese ground losses:
56 casualties reported

Runway hits 12
Port hits 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Invasions

TF 1030 encounters mine field at Kwajalein (79,79)
TF 1030 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79

Allied Ships
MSW Lockeport
MSW Bellechasse
MSW Ungava
MSW Quatsino
DE Engstrom
DE Bebas
DE Baron
DD Wilson
DD Hudson
DD Hazelwood
DD Fullam
DD Aulick
AK Norse Carrier, Mine hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1030
88 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DD Fullam
LCT LCT-136, Shell hits 5

Allied ground losses:
807 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1030

TF 1030 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79
6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Fullam, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
131 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1043

TF 1043 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79
96 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Kidd
DD Murray, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
840 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1071

TF 1071 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79
65 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
LCM 542E, Shell hits 5
DD McKee, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
2 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
533 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1074

TF 1074 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79
73 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DD Foote, Shell hits 7
MSW Velocity
CL Adelaide, Shell hits 3

Allied ground losses:
787 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kwajalein, 79,79, firing at TF 1098

TF 1098 troops unloading over beach at Kwajalein, 79,79
6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied ground losses:
1173 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Not too many air strikes today, guess Andy is preparing to meet a counter strike by the KB!

Day Air attack on TF at 69,85

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK George Ross, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kwajalein

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 16049 troops, 84 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 72121 troops, 685 guns, 385 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
123 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kwajalein

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 68160 troops, 678 guns, 384 vehicles

Defending force 37968 troops, 110 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 9)

Japanese ground losses:
2343 casualties reported
Guns lost 32

Allied ground losses:
3901 casualties reported
Guns lost 128
Vehicles lost 32
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Shock attack!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 1921

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/7/2006 11:50:19 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

yep, hand made yagi antenna and bouncing the signal off a small metal building. Amazing.

_____________________________

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1922

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/7/2006 11:53:51 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Forgot to mention that Andy landed a para unit...only lost a handful C47s to flak.
I also notice that there are no engineer units among the invasion forces. Going to be hard to reduce the forts without
em...and if they are landed individually they will be forced to shock attack.

Did Andy rely on brute force? Eventually his army will wear down the defenders, but with 50k supplies it will cost a lot
of blood.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 1923

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 12:02:48 AM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline

how many mines put in harbour ?

_____________________________

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1924

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 12:42:40 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Originally there were some 4-5000 mines in Kwajalein but after the base came within range of enemy
air and surface units they have been swept. Only a few hundred left when Andy invaded. Going to be a
different story when he makes the 'big' jump!

Made a big mistake early on in the game and didn't order any MLEs so it was difficult to place enough mines
far from Truk and my other size 9 ports. Will receive one in just a month and start to mine the Palaus and Marianas.

The Betties in naval search didn't score any hits today either...lost 5 to CAP fighters. Rather dissappointing.
Will continue trying and more small waves of bombers will be committed.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/12/43

A bonus today! Told you we spotted some enemy ships of Sakhalin near Komandorski Island.
Betties and 2 destroyers attacked them today and I'm not sure who were the most surprised!
A large convoy of fuel tankers!! Most of them were put on fire...

It's possible that Andy is planning a northern offensive. Will keep a close eye on developments
in this area.

Surface Combat

Day Time Surface Combat, near Komandorski Island at 89,31

Japanese Ships
DD Yugure
DD Uzuki

Allied Ships
AP Republic
TK A.C. Rubel
TK L.P. St. Clair, Shell hits 2, on fire
TK La Placentia, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Gulfgem, Shell hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Gold
TK Empire Granite, Shell hits 3, on fire
TK Empire Metal, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Talthibius, Shell hits 1, on fire
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub/ASW Attacks

ASW attack at 26,65

Japanese Ships
AP Heiku Maru
PC Ch 13
PG Uji

Allied Ships - nice hit!
SS Scorpion, hits 1, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombardments

Naval bombardment of Kwajalein, at 79,79 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied Ships
CA Chester
CA Canberra
CA Wichita
CA Minneapolis
CA Salt Lake City
BB California

Japanese ground losses:
56 casualties reported

Runway hits 8
Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

More carrier strikes against my ground units at Kwajalein today!

Day Air attack on Sasebo 5th SNLF, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 33
SB2C Helldiver x 47
TBM Avenger x 33

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
50 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sasebo 5th SNLF, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 32

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sasebo 5th SNLF, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 20
F-5C Lightning x 1
F-6A Mustang x 1

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N Warhawk: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sasebo 6th SNLF, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 32

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 87th Naval Guard Unit, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 32
SB2C Helldiver x 64
TBM Avenger x 69

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 2 damaged
TBM Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 88th Naval Guard Unit, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 83
TBM Avenger x 76

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
TBM Avenger: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
106 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 88th Naval Guard Unit, at 79,79

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 15

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF, near Komandorski Island at 89,31

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Gulfgem, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Granite, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kwajalein at 79,79

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 12
P-40N Warhawk x 2
P-38J Lightning x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Saufley

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Komandorski Island at 89,31

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Empire Metal, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kwajalein

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 19905 troops, 70 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 65746 troops, 465 guns, 355 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface action of Komandorski Island!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 1925

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 1:22:26 AM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

Maybe a lend-lease convoy taking fuel to the russkies

Neat idea with the naval search. I have only ever seen naval search drop bombs not torps though. humm looks like it will be interesting to test this.

Good luck .. and thats a relatively tiny gassison on kwajelian isn't it ?

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1926

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 2:15:27 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Not gotten the results I wanted from naval search planes...the Betties I used had an
average exp of 75. No hits! Perhaps highly experienced Sallys would do the job. Let's try it

It is a relatively small garrison - expendable troops that have to be sacrificed to buy time for the Empire
to prepare for one gargantuan battle in 1944... In 6 months the defense of the Philippines will be ready together
with 3 new fleet carriers and 10 army division.

You have no idea how tempted I've been to send my fleet after the juicy targets around Kwajalein, but it's simply
to risky and I'm trying to keep the following saying in mind:
He who wants to defend everything defends nothing...[] - Frederik the Great

It could be a good idea to build Andy's confidence by 'allowing' him a few successes. I've learned a lot from the previous
campaigns and I think I know how to defeat him in the future.

Thinking about keeping 2 battleships, a couple of cve's a destroyer flotilla and 2 cruisers in Northern Japan.
A rapid reaction force that can bombard Attu now and then. Sounds like a good idea? Received an Air HQ and an aviation regiment
for the Northern Area Army today - slowly building up our defensive positions in the area.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/13/43

Air Combat

Sent some Betties and a Daitai of Judys on naval attack today: a few but costly hits were
achieved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kwajalein at 79,79

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft..goodbye!

F6F Hellcat x 143
P-40N Warhawk x 4
P-38J Lightning x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 83,82

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
D4Y Judy x 3
G4M2 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 83,82

Japanese aircraft - blargh, why didn't these ac follow the escorted strike in
D4Y Judy x 24

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 10 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
AK San Vincente, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
LCM 533A, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kwajalein at 79,79

Japanese aircraft - this is the way I like it..a low moral unit that turns away in time!
G4M2 Betty x 7

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 143
P-40N Warhawk x 4
P-38J Lightning x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 83,82

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
D4Y Judy x 5
G4M2 Betty x 12

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 23
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 4
P-40N Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 5 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kwajalein

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 20028 troops, 75 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 66469 troops, 486 guns, 362 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 1927

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 4:44:02 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Created a plan for a possible strike against the enemy fleet. It's only a draft but I would
like to hear your opinions.

Andy has placed his carrier TFs in two hexes outside of Kwajalein (see screenie).
It should be possible to send in the KB and deliver a strike against one of these formations from 5 hexes.

*.)I got 8 fast carriers with a speed of more than 30 knot that could be divided into 2-4 Car Divs.
*.)Ponape and Kusaie could provide an additional 150 strike ac.
*.)Even more strike ac could be placed on Wotje and Eniwetok - capacity is 300 ac.
*.)The enemy carriers would have been to sea for several weeks and the air groups would be somewhat fatigued.
*.)We can deliver torpedoes from 5 hexes while the enemy would only be able to hit back with 500lb bombs.
*.)Our fast carriers should be able to make good their escape.

Is it worth the risk? Personally I'd say no because I'm not certain we could penetrate the enemy CAP with enough
bombers to cause critical damage and get away with it. On the other side the element of surprise could work to our
advantage, especially if Andys carrier ac are set to attack ground targets and/or provides CAP support for Kwajalein.
It's not going to be any easier to hurt an ever increasing enemy carrier force. If I really wanted to I could also transfer
300 fighters to Kwajalein - THAT would be one helluva surprise....

Lots of possibilities but I'd have to decide within a day or two.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/14/43

Surface Combat

My destroyers found the tankers again and handed out another beating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 91,32

Japanese Ships
DD Yugure
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
AP Republic
TK A.C. Rubel
TK L.P. St. Clair, Shell hits 1, on fire
TK La Placentia, on fire, heavy damage
TK Gulfgem, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Gold
TK Empire Granite, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Metal, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Talthibius, Shell hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

No luck for todays raiders...

Day Air attack on TF, near Kwajalein at 79,79

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 2

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 13
P-40N Warhawk x 2
P-38J Lightning x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,84

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 10

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kwajalein

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 20287 troops, 81 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 66851 troops, 490 guns, 366 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kwajalein

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 56649 troops, 488 guns, 1 vehicles

Defending force 34955 troops, 92 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
250 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enemy fleet of Kwajalein

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1928

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 4:53:37 AM

BLurking

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Frisco, TX
Status: offline

Are his aircraft striking your forces in the A.M. phase? If so, he might have them set on airfield/port attack primary. That's your only hope. Otherwise, you're banking on his carriers - which aren't moving much and have plenty of OP points - NOT reacting to your fleet. If they react - goodbye KB...

Just a thought...

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1929

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 4:58:39 AM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

I don't know that it would be worth it, PzB. I doubt that you could penetrate the CAP and he's sure to come after you. How many carriers does he have ithin strike range? You could stand to lose a good portion of your CVs in a heartbeat while accomplishing little in return.

You could try sending in the land based groups to hurt his CAP and maybe land a hit or two, then follow-up with KB. Still risky though and would be costly.

Does he have fast BBs with his CVs? If not that may be an opportunity for a fast CA night action. If it was possible to hit him that way then it might be worthwhile.

Anyways, I'm enjoying the AAR. Keep up the good work. Andy's having to work for it.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1930

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 5:32:23 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Enemy carrier strikes against ground targets are irregular - so I guess they're set to naval/ground attack mode.
Probably 1 or 2 enemy carrier groups in the hex just west of Kwajalein. 2 cvs and 2 cvls in each group as far as I can see.
These are the carriers that would launch a counter strike - but from 5 hexes their bombs would mostly bounce of my flight decks.

I agree with you Chez, much too risky and uncertain! My LBA would NEVER penetrate his force field CAP unless they went in together with
a KB strike. I'm also horrified at the thought of sending in the KB and witness another turkey shoot were all my bombers went in piecemeal
or unescorted. A surface strike is possible, but I expect Andy to keep a surface group with his carriers and even if I manage to engage
the carrier TF the escorts will most likely protect them.

A surface battle might still be worth a try: I could muster 4 ca's, 2 cl's and 6 dd's in one group and 2 cl's and 6 dd's in another surface
group and launch them from the hex just east of Ponape. At flank speed they would reach the enemy carriers - fight and return to Ponape
(the unescorted ships at least). Moving in during a bad weather turn would be the best idea!

It would still be a big risk but imagine launching a long lance attack against an enemy carrier fleet

The loss of some cruisers and destroyers
would hurt, but would hardly be a disaster.

Spotted a replenishment group heading for the enemy carriers today, so I guess they will stay put for another few days.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to ChezDaJez)

Post #: 1931

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 6:13:24 AM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

One thing to keep in mind is that he probably has 10 or more CVEs( 15+?) with strike aircraft on them. They could/should be hitting Kwajelein while the CV/CVLs protect the landing taskforces. They will have 200-300 fighters on them and 90-135 TBFs.

_____________________________

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1932

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:52:01 AM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

A surface battle might still be worth a try: I could muster 4 ca's, 2 cl's and 6 dd's in one group and 2 cl's and 6 dd's in another surface group and launch them from the hex just east of Ponape. At flank speed they would reach the enemy carriers - fight and return to Ponape (the unescorted ships at least). Moving in during a bad weather turn would be the best idea!

Don't forget that if they engage in combat they will use ops points which will reduce their return movement and may even cause them to stay in the combat hex.

Also, make sure you have a radar equipped ship if you try it, especially if moving under bad weather. No need to be unduly "surprised" during combat.

I think the main intent should be not so much to damage/sink them as it would be to make Andy nervous and consider withdrawing them east of Kwaj. Then you might have a chance with LBA and KB against his supply or bombardment forces.

Whatever you do though, consider those forces you use as lost. Base your decision on that criteria and what you can afford to lose.

Chez

_____________________________

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1933

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 10:24:07 AM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

A surface battle might still be worth a try: I could muster 4 ca's, 2 cl's and 6 dd's in one group and 2 cl's and 6 dd's in another surface group and launch them from the hex just east of Ponape. At flank speed they would reach the enemy carriers - fight and return to Ponape (the unescorted ships at least). Moving in during a bad weather turn would be the best idea!

Don't forget that if they engage in combat they will use ops points which will reduce their return movement and may even cause them to stay in the combat hex.

Also, make sure you have a radar equipped ship if you try it, especially if moving under bad weather. No need to be unduly "surprised" during combat.

I think the main intent should be not so much to damage/sink them as it would be to make Andy nervous and consider withdrawing them east of Kwaj. Then you might have a chance with LBA and KB against his supply or bombardment forces.

Whatever you do though, consider those forces you use as lost. Base your decision on that criteria and what you can afford to lose.

Chez

I agree with this. If I remember right the allies lost quite a few ships since start of the war. If you get some more it may slow him down another month or two. Perhaps you can use your carriers against his Bombardment fleet as it replenishes ?

< Message edited by soeren01 -- 2/8/2006 10:25:28 AM >

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soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
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(in reply to ChezDaJez)

Post #: 1934

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 5:58:15 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Appreciate the input guys!

I've pondered over the issue and my decision is - still - that it's to risky to send the fleet, or parts of it,
to attack the enemy in the Marshalls. Just can't defend it all...will save todays turn and ask Andy to replay them
when the game is over to see what could have been achieved. Perhaps it can be made available as an unofficial
'Battle for the Marshall Islands' scenario?

When the enemy invades the main defensive perimeter I'm going to throw everything I got against them: 65 destroyers, 20
cruisers, 12 battleships, 20 carriers, 40 subs and 100+ patrol craft and thousands of ac. Several 'cunning plans' are being
devised and I'm certain the battle can be won!

Going to make one last effort with LBA to hurt the enemy though...just have to wait for the right moment.

We're getting closer to 100k hits and we've been at it for 2 full years now - both in game and rl time! We're half way through
the game and next week it'll be 1944. Should put together something...ideas?

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 1935

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 6:08:54 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Got some nice color pics for you!

R&R at the main fleet anchorage

Attachment (1)

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1936

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:04:31 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

You told about some supply train... No plan of raiding behind his back while his manoeuvering in the Marshalls? There ought to be something rolling from west coast or PH to the Marshall up and down! I mean, now that everything seems to be in the Marshall, no plan for a quick supply lanes hit?
Full or empty, a good troopship is a dead troopship

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1937

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:12:29 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

I've been considering the options regarding a carrier strike against Allied supply lines.
Unfortunately it isn't as easy as it may seem:

1. The 'gap' between the Solomons and Marshalls: If I send my carriers down here the retreat could be cut of by the Allied carriers in no time.
2. The Pacific Ocean between the US West Coast and PH: It would take a month to get a couple of carriers in position and they would require escorts
and supply ships. Glen equipped subs would have to perform scouting missions. Andy would have to send some of his carriers and/or divert his convoys.

The question is whether such an operation is worthwhile...the ships involved would run a serious risk, so can we afford 2 carriers and their escorts
to dirsupt the Allied supply convoys at this time of the war?

2 light carriers, 2 detroyers and 2 light cruisers and a replenishment TF could perhaps be used as commercial raiders.
Will look at my 'inventory'....

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1938

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:42:17 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Well, maybe if Andy thinks your moving something like the whole KB over there, maybe he would be bond to give it a look and leave Kwajalein a little less protected, you know that you don't need that many carriers for him to actually think you got carriers over there, especially if you make numerous TF packed together... With half a dozen carriers less, running to cut the way of your imaginary strike force, maybe you may strike where it hurts in time...

I mean, as long as you lose only planes, you have the time to get ready for the Marianas right? Well if the bait works, you won't have a big time window, but "in no time" as you say is merely two turns long, just the time for your decoy fleet to turn back in time and for him to realized he got fooled, but you'll get that window for the big land and navy strike. ;)

I don't ask you to get your ships on the harm's way, you've got the advantage on this: you know where his carriers are and when they leave, while the opposite is not true ;)

AJ

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1939

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:49:18 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
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From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Sound reasoning but Andy has already landed his troops on Kwajalein and there's not much more than a few supply convoys left now.
He's bound to leave behind som escort carriers so it would all turn into one big game of cat and mouse...and Japan can't afford to loose her ships
as you point out.

If I had my 4 Kongo battleships ready they could have been used for a hit and run strike, but this option has to be preserved for later.
Another option is to divert some of Andys carriers and then hit the remaining units around Kwajalein with a strong LBA group.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1940

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 7:53:43 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

Another option is to divert some of Andys carriers and then hit the remaining units around Kwajalein with a strong LBA group.

Well yes I must be expressing myself not that well but that was the point of my proposal

Getting a part of Andy's carriers running after a ghost (a decoy force able to stand for the KB a turn or two on Andy's screen, buzzing subs all over the place and made of several light tf of so-called "CVCVBBBB" mix recon look

) while you're striking at Kwajalein with your LBAs and KB's main body

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1941

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:02:26 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Here is a modification of your previous pic to make it clear
I draw the top line there only because it was more convinient, but if the decoy can pass some 5 or 6 hex northwards, it's even better - the more distance, the bigger the fire window, the longer your time to react and get to a safe place :)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 2/8/2006 8:06:11 PM >

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1942

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:03:56 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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That is a good plan and I'll attempt to carry it out. Unfortunately I only got 2 subs (that doesn't carry search planes) and only 1 of these two are
enroute to the Marshalls. I consider my spy subs too valuable to be wasted in regular sub suicide attacks. There you see how much faith I have in them...

In 3-4 months 25 RO type coastal subs will arrive - another element in my plan for a great battle in 1944.

How about this: I send two of my 34kt carriers in 2 TFs escorted by 4 cruisers and 12 destroyers towards the Marshalls and make sure they're spotted by enemy
search planes from the Solomons. (Should place 140 fighters aboard on 90% CAP to protect them against long range enemy LBA) If the Allied carriers reach I'll turn them around and launch my LBA.

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1943

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:04:39 PM

timtom

Posts: 2358
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From: Aarhus, Denmark
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Of course when/if Andy goes for the Marianas, he'll in all likelyhood have more of everything, so you might be better off striking now

Q: How does one fit 140,000 men onto 6,33 km2?

A: (Your comment here)

Attachment (1)

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(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1944

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:11:56 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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quote:

How about this: I send two of my 34kt carriers in 2 TFs escorted by 4 cruisers and 12 destroyers towards the Marshalls and make sure they're spotted by enemy search planes from the Solomons. (Should place 140 fighters aboard on 90% CAP to protect them against long range enemy LBA) If the Allied carriers reach I'll turn them around and launch my LBA.

Where do you want to send them in the Marshalls?

You want to get the carriers running after you till the Carolines? Or are you talking of the same kind of decoy plan, but passing South instead of North?

What I liked with the northern way was that there is really room there, but the problem as you say is that you don't get long range recon over there right?
If the southern corridor is not too tight for you, then go for it so

Im with Timtom: better wear it down the sooner the better

(in reply to timtom)

Post #: 1945

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:14:17 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
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From: No(r)way
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The problem is that Andy doesn't spot ships further than 6-7 hexes from Kwajalein: Had some cargo ships at Eniwetok and they unloaded peacefully
before departing

CVEs are notoriously slow and would be destroyed if spotted, so I think the use of 2 fast carriers approaching from Ponape would
be better.

It's much easier to defend in the Marianas Timtom: The Combined Fleet can 'lurk' in the Philippines before launching a surprise attack.
There would be lots of friendly bases to dock my ships in an even more bases to launch LBA strikes from.

The game doesn't handle this problem very well: size doesn't matter in other words

So we just have to assume that there is room for the troops.
I'm not going to limit my deployment of troops in the Palaus since Andy obviously is capable of landing 1-200k troops on any atoll in a single day.

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to timtom)

Post #: 1946

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:19:44 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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That's clear boss thanks

Well you're the boss PzB san, you choose! And by the way, if the worst had to happen, you know you're sort of Isoroku pal to us, we'll be always blindly following you even in the defeat

Good night guys!

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 1947

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:24:49 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

There won't be any defeats! Just a series of front line adjustments

I'll consider the options when I get a turn from Andy tonight...

Night

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1948

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 8:26:50 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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i would send decoy fleet too - if nothing else, Andy have think about that and maybe he would slow down his operations at Marshalls - and you will gain more time.

of course, do not risk your CV(L)s in this feint action....

Timtom, nice to see you again - how was in Croatia?

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Post #: 1949

RE: Enemy lands 90k troops on Kwajalein! - 2/8/2006 9:00:40 PM

timtom

Posts: 2358
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From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline

Hi Pauk - We had a great time in Croatia, thanks. I'd recommend it to anyone. The only problem was that a 10-day wasn't enough to do/see/experience all the things we would've liked. Guess we'll have to come back

PzB: You've got a far better feel of your own game of course, but you say you can cram another 400-500 aircraft into the combat zone. I think this is as good a shot at his CV's as you're going to get from now on. If he hits the Marianas 5-6 game months from now, he'll bring - wot? - 400 additional carrier aircraft to the party, and he'll KNOW that you'll fight tooth and nail for the place, and act accordingly.

Anyway, the spirit of Tordenskjold is clearly alive and well in Norway (even though I'm with Andy as I think you've done your fair share of behind-kicking in this game

)

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(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 1950

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