Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: CHFoster

I have been reading the BiN rules and trying to work out every last detail of how things work. There are a few things, from essential to trivial, which I have been unable to work out. I list the questions below in no particular order (please forgive me if some are naive or have been answered before):

1) The unit background colors seem to contain information. Red/Grey is Ost, Lt Blue/Dk Blue is Luftwaffe, Dark Grey/Black is SS. Is there a complete listing of these colors and there meaning anyplace?

Your observation is correct for BIN. Each battle has its own set of color schemes. Its up to the scenario designer to list these details.

2) The % figure given for Division Integrity doesn't seem to map directly to the change in combat factors. For example, 21 PZD has a 65% modifier but for example an AttStr goes from 8->13 and Def Str goes from 14->20. I don't see where the .65 ratio holds?

Umm, think the numbers you've listed are not correct. Attack 8 goes 13 and Defense 12 goes to 20 (two different units in 21 Pz Div with 65% bonus).

3) Sometimes non-arty units (eg. 125 PzGdr Rgt) broadcast a light blue radius a la arty units. Is this a bug or a feature indicating something, and if so, what?

Division integrity bonus range is indicated. Unit can move anywhere in the radius and still have integrity bonus. (see above)

4) The step pictures have different background colors. These range from white to grey to orange to green. Do the different colors mean anything or is it merely artistic?

Artistic only on the step background graphics.

5) In the crt screen, the terrain is named twice, on the left and right of the terrain picture. In several cases, the names on the left and right do not agree (eg Wooded Bocage vs Bocage). Why?

Terrain (move costs, hidden adjustment, etc...) vs CRT (combat result)

6) In the crt screen, some rivers/roads have two different values and colored arrows pointing to them. Why?

EDIT: What you see are the movement costs for each type of unit. The rivers arrow indicate effect on attacking across them. Green is 100% attack strength, orange is 50%, red means attack across river not possible.

7) The US 327GIB/101ABD arrives by sea. I guess that must be historically accurate but it is surprising. Did they not land in gliders?

Came by sea. US ran out of gliders!

8) There are two different trucks displayed in the terrain screen (one with one rear axel and one with two). What's the difference?

If you're asking about movement costs: One is wheel movement, the other is motorized infantry.

9) There is at least one movement type picture not discussed (Commando). Is this artistic or do commando units use different op's?

? Movement types are leg, track, wheel, horse, & motorized infantry. Supply delivery also has its own movement cost.

10) As I understand the manual, embarked ground units should show movement type of Amphib (ie the boat picture) until they debark. However, in the picture in the manual and in the game, they show their ground movement type but a blue movement arrow while embarked. Is this a bug or intentional? It would certainly be clearer if they showed the amphib picture while embarked.

? If you see offload anchor and defense value 1 you know the units in Amphib mode.

11) In the unit info screen, why are some detachment icons green and some orange?

Means (orange) unit can do detachments or unit cannot (green) do detachments. Seems counterintuitive.

12) What's the difference between standard and adjusted combat display as chosen in the map options screen?

EDIT: Very cool feature. Allows you to see all the CRT results for that terrain... the change possible if you get shock advantage!

13) Why are choices in the map options screen not persistent? I have to reset all the options each time I load a new game....

? Most options remain based on what you set... some are defaults for the scenario.

14) I remain confused by alert points.

a) When it says 5 alert points release a 'unit', is that a single counter or an entire division? It seems it's the later but it is not specified.

Answer depends on scenario design... Both for points required to alert one unit (the 5 you mention) & whether that 5 points alerts brings a single unit or the entire division (remaining 15 alert points for a 4 unit division would then have to be gained before another division can be alerted)

b) If several alert units are available, how is it decided which one releases first?

Good question. This has never been documented. In TAO3 which alert city was taken first made a difference as to which unit was alerted first.

c) Are taking alert locations the only way to get alert points? In Monty's Landing, somehow I got 10 alert points when I can only find 5 on the map...

Yes.... There ought to be 5 more out there... will have to check scenario details.
Phew!

Thanks in advance,

Craig

quote:

ORIGINAL: CHFoster

I have been reading the BiN rules and trying to work out every last detail of how things work...

3) Sometimes non-arty units (eg. 125 PzGdr Rgt) broadcast a light blue radius a la arty units. Is this a bug or a feature indicating something, and if so, what?

quote:



4) The step pictures have different background colors. These range from white to grey to orange to green. Do the different colors mean anything or is it merely artistic?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker




The one thing I haven't worked out is what is the significance of the coloring of a unit's movement type box? Is this just artitistic too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: CHFoster

I have been reading the BiN rules and trying to work out every last detail of how things work. There are a few things, from essential to trivial, which I have been unable to work out. I list the questions below in no particular order (please forgive me if some are naive or have been answered before):

1) The unit background colors seem to contain information. Red/Grey is Ost, Lt Blue/Dk Blue is Luftwaffe, Dark Grey/Black is SS. Is there a complete listing of these colors and there meaning anyplace?

Your observation is correct for BIN. Each battle has its own set of color schemes. Its up to the scenario designer to list these details.

And I could find those details where? Or are you saying they are unstated unless the designers publish notes currently unavailable.

2) The % figure given for Division Integrity doesn't seem to map directly to the change in combat factors. For example, 21 PZD has a 65% modifier but for example an AttStr goes from 8->13 and Def Str goes from 14->20. I don't see where the .65 ratio holds?

Umm, think the numbers you've listed are not correct. Attack 8 goes 13 and Defense 12 goes to 20 (two different units in 21 Pz Div with 65% bonus).

My mistake. The unit was entrenched so it had a defense strength already improved. Your numbers are correct.

3) Sometimes non-arty units (eg. 125 PzGdr Rgt) broadcast a light blue radius a la arty units. Is this a bug or a feature indicating something, and if so, what?

Division integrity bonus range is indicated. Unit can move anywhere in the radius and still have integrity bonus. (see above)

Again my mistake, this is what I suspected but it was not always consistent. However, I had entire stacks of units selected, containing multiple divisions. When individual units are selected it seems to be consistent. :)

4) The step pictures have different background colors. These range from white to grey to orange to green. Do the different colors mean anything or is it merely artistic?

Artistic only on the step background graphics.

Understood.

5) In the crt screen, the terrain is named twice, on the left and right of the terrain picture. In several cases, the names on the left and right do not agree (eg Wooded Bocage vs Bocage). Why?

Terrain (move costs, hidden adjustment, etc...) vs CRT (combat result)

Ah!

6) In the crt screen, some rivers/roads have two different values and colored arrows pointing to them. Why?

EDIT: What you see are the movement costs for each type of unit. The rivers arrow indicate effect on attacking across them. Green is 100% attack strength, orange is 50%, red means attack across river not possible.

Actually, you left out the most basic part which I missed and just figured out: the two numbers are for 'minor' and 'major' respectively. So what you mean is the first op cost is for a minor river in clear weather and the green arrow means a 100% attack strength attack. The second op cost is for a major river in clear weather and the orange arrow means (as it does on the map) no tactical shift possible from such a hex (to be clear, is it 50% attstr as you say or no tactical shift as the orange arrow normally means?). The third is for minor river/mud weather and the fourth is major river/mud weather and red mean no attack possible. Am I right?

7) The US 327GIB/101ABD arrives by sea. I guess that must be historically accurate but it is surprising. Did they not land in gliders?

Came by sea. US ran out of gliders!

Huh. And they came in on D-Day by sea? I missed that story completely.

8) There are two different trucks displayed in the terrain screen (one with one rear axel and one with two). What's the difference?

If you're asking about movement costs: One is wheel movement, the other is motorized infantry.

Ok.

9) There is at least one movement type picture not discussed (Commando). Is this artistic or do commando units use different op's?

? Movement types are leg, track, wheel, horse, & motorized infantry. Supply delivery also has its own movement cost.

Fair enough. For future correction, the manual refers to "the four movement types" on p. 10 while there are clearly the six you mention listed.

10) As I understand the manual, embarked ground units should show movement type of Amphib (ie the boat picture) until they debark. However, in the picture in the manual and in the game, they show their ground movement type but a blue movement arrow while embarked. Is this a bug or intentional? It would certainly be clearer if they showed the amphib picture while embarked.

? If you see offload anchor and defense value 1 you know the units in Amphib mode.

Fair enough though I stand by my suggestion.

11) In the unit info screen, why are some detachment icons green and some orange?

Means (orange) unit can do detachments or unit cannot (green) do detachments. Seems counterintuitive.

Indeed it does. Wouldn't any color for 'can leave' and no color (eg the grey shadow used for other non-capabilities) for 'can't leave' be more consistent with other usage AND just generally clearer?

12) What's the difference between standard and adjusted combat display as chosen in the map options screen?

EDIT: Very cool feature. Allows you to see all the CRT results for that terrain... the change possible if you get shock advantage!

As below, meaning all eight die rolls are show even though only six of them are possible given the anti-shock shifts. Cool.

13) Why are choices in the map options screen not persistent? I have to reset all the options each time I load a new game....

? Most options remain based on what you set... some are defaults for the scenario.

Agreed. Again not a question but a suggestion, wouldn't it make more sense to have them all (or less agreeably, none) be persistent?

14) I remain confused by alert points.

a) When it says 5 alert points release a 'unit', is that a single counter or an entire division? It seems it's the later but it is not specified.

Answer depends on scenario design... Both for points required to alert one unit (the 5 you mention) & whether that 5 points alerts brings a single unit or the entire division (remaining 15 alert points for a 4 unit division would then have to be gained before another division can be alerted)

So you are saying the designer specifies whether the threshold number (eg 5 points) releases an entire division (as in Monty's Landing) or just a single counter? Is there any way to know what is specified? I guess one could count the points possible and the alert units possible and deduce the choice...

b) If several alert units are available, how is it decided which one releases first?

Good question. This has never been documented. In TAO3 which alert city was taken first made a difference as to which unit was alerted first.

I guess it'd be in the scen files but I'm not ready to dive in there yet. :)

c) Are taking alert locations the only way to get alert points? In Monty's Landing, somehow I got 10 alert points when I can only find 5 on the map...

Yes.... There ought to be 5 more out there... will have to check scenario details.

The flag for Dives is hidden under Cabourg. There are 10, I missed 5 of them. Sorry.

Thanks to all for their very helpful responses!

Craig

Phew!

Thanks in advance,

Craig

Craig,

Great questions. Wasn't immediately clear what you're asking about on a couple.

Thanks!

JSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

I'm glad there's another person who feels that understanding the rules helps gameplay

LOL!

Check JSS's list on the Run 5 site being various rules errata he has caught. I hope the questions I've managed to ask have helped too. Note the revised hex size - I wouldn't have thought that an issue until another gamer picked the anomaly up.

Thanks!

Craig

Adam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CHFoster

I have been reading the BiN rules and trying to work out every last detail of how things work. There are a few things, from essential to trivial, which I have been unable to work out. I list the questions below in no particular order (please forgive me if some are naive or have been answered before):

1) The unit background colors seem to contain information. Red/Grey is Ost, Lt Blue/Dk Blue is Luftwaffe, Dark Grey/Black is SS. Is there a complete listing of these colors and there meaning anyplace?

Your observation is correct for BIN. Each battle has its own set of color schemes. Its up to the scenario designer to list these details.

And I could find those details where? Or are you saying they are unstated unless the designers publish notes currently unavailable.

The graphics exist in the country's graphic bmp. Only scenario designer can state (in design notes) what they mean.

6) In the crt screen, some rivers/roads have two different values and colored arrows pointing to them. Why?

EDIT: What you see are the movement costs for each type of unit. The rivers arrow indicate effect on attacking across them. Green is 100% attack strength, orange is 50%, red means attack across river not possible.

Actually, you left out the most basic part which I missed and just figured out: the two numbers are for 'minor' and 'major' respectively. So what you mean is the first op cost is for a minor river in clear weather and the green arrow means a 100% attack strength attack. The second op cost is for a major river in clear weather and the orange arrow means (as it does on the map) no tactical shift possible from such a hex (to be clear, is it 50% attstr as you say or no tactical shift as the orange arrow normally means?). The third is for minor river/mud weather and the fourth is major river/mud weather and red mean no attack possible. Am I right?

Mostly correct. Attacking across rivers always results in no tactical shift... same as being in minefield or detachment hex. Note that 50% attack strength is 50% of base attack strength. Divisional integrity bonus is not reduced!


9) There is at least one movement type picture not discussed (Commando). Is this artistic or do commando units use different op's?

? Movement types are leg, track, wheel, horse, & motorized infantry. Supply delivery also has its own movement cost.

Fair enough. For future correction, the manual refers to "the four movement types" on p. 10 while there are clearly the six you mention listed.

Note that no units can move in supply (that's why there's only five types). Supply OP costs determine supply delivery (if that movement cost is used for supply calculations). Supply units themselves are assigned to one of the five basic movement types.

10) As I understand the manual, embarked ground units should show movement type of Amphib (ie the boat picture) until they debark. However, in the picture in the manual and in the game, they show their ground movement type but a blue movement arrow while embarked. Is this a bug or intentional? It would certainly be clearer if they showed the amphib picture while embarked.

? If you see offload anchor and defense value 1 you know the units in Amphib mode.

Fair enough though I stand by my suggestion.

I have a scenario built where units can enter amphib mode by player choice. This action replaces the movement type pict with a ship. Think the game doesn't show this for units that arrive (enter game) in amphib mode so that you have better info on them (i.e. see there details rather than be shown that, yes, they are on a landing craft waiting to unload).

11) In the unit info screen, why are some detachment icons green and some orange?

Means (orange) unit can do detachments or unit cannot (green) do detachments. Seems counterintuitive.

Indeed it does. Wouldn't any color for 'can leave' and no color (eg the grey shadow used for other non-capabilities) for 'can't leave' be more consistent with other usage AND just generally clearer?

Yes, agree with suggestion (noticed this since release... haven't sent in note on this yet)

14) I remain confused by alert points.

a) When it says 5 alert points release a 'unit', is that a single counter or an entire division? It seems it's the later but it is not specified.

Answer depends on scenario design... Both for points required to alert one unit (the 5 you mention) & whether that 5 points alerts brings a single unit or the entire division (remaining 15 alert points for a 4 unit division would then have to be gained before another division can be alerted)

So you are saying the designer specifies whether the threshold number (eg 5 points) releases an entire division (as in Monty's Landing) or just a single counter? Is there any way to know what is specified? I guess one could count the points possible and the alert units possible and deduce the choice...

Scenario design notes is the only way outside of looking in editor or paying close attention while playing. "q" hotkey gives useful info for figuring this out while playing.

b) If several alert units are available, how is it decided which one releases first?

Good question. This has never been documented. In TAO3 which alert city was taken first made a difference as to which unit was alerted first.

I guess it'd be in the scen files but I'm not ready to dive in there yet. :)

Nope, this remains one of the game's great mysteries. Observation holds that place where alert points are earned determines which unit alerts first (i.e. one closest to alert point hex taken).