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RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 1:28:53 AM

TheElf

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I haven't been able to find a top down pic of the Ki-94. If anyone has one please post it!

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Post #: 61

RE: F8F Planeside - 1/3/2005 1:28:55 AM

CobraAus

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2 map panel 10 at stage 3

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Post #: 62

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 1:31:09 AM

CobraAus

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3 map panel 3 before

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Post #: 63

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 1:37:06 AM

CobraAus

Posts: 2322
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4 map panel 3 stage 3 - coastal water treatment not done yet

keep in mind that these shots are half size jpegs

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< Message edited by CobraAus -- 1/2/2005 11:38:44 PM >

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Post #: 64

RE: IJN Heavy Cruiser OOB - 1/3/2005 1:52:51 AM

Don Bowen

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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc

There are still many errors in the OOB concerning IJN CAs as I already posted in July. If you would make use of the data I could contribute it. Please let my know before I start the work because my time is limited.

quote:

There are a few errors regarding the armament of the CAs of the Myoko and Takao class.

The Myoko class had a Torpedo armament of 2x4 tubes left and right with a total ammunition of 24 torpedos (16 in the tubes and 8 in reserve). This refit took place in 1939-1941 (the Myoko the last to finish it).

The Takao class looked different too:

The refit of Takao and Atago couldn't be finished before the war started
They also had only 24 torpedos just like the Myoko-class. Their secondary armament was still the four single 12-cm HA guns. The ships were equipped with the four twin 12.7 cm mounts in May 1942.

Chokai and Maya couldn't be refitted before the war started.
Armament:
secondary guns: four single 12-cm HA guns (Chokai till sunk in 1944!!, Maya till conversion to AA-cruiser)
Torpedo: they kept their 4 twin mounts with 24 torpedos. (Chokai till sunk in 1944, Maya till conversion to AA-cruiser. She then got the 4 quad mounts but without reserve torpedos).

Source: Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War, Eric Lacroix and Linton Wells II

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870213113/qid=1088882968/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/103-2073616-7935040?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

I would be interested in this data. My current references (which do not include Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War) indicate that Atago and Takao were fitted with quad TT and twin 5" in 1939-40. By AA-Cruiser I assume you mean the replacement of Maya's "C" turret with two twin 5" during damage repairs in late 1943. I had thought that Maya and Chokai had received an upgrade in 1942, upgrading to twin 5" but not doubling the TT. We already have Chokai as a separate class in our scenario, I wonder if Maya should be too. Indicentally we also have Isuzu as a separate class due to her CLAA upgrade.

Don

(in reply to Marc)

Post #: 65

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 1:59:50 AM

Don Bowen

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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

That is my view as well. I would rather have a broader representation of different aircraft before having a great veriety of a single type. Within reason of course.

Andrew

I agree. We only have six additional carrier slots! There are two main points:

1. How far past 9/45 do we want the scenario to extend?
2. How important are sub-types of a given model compared to national differences (which are only icon changes.

I believe we have 14 empty non-carrier slots, so we can break the discussion into carrier and non-carrier.

Lively debate so far, let's keep up it.

Don

(in reply to Andrew Brown)

Post #: 66

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:05:27 AM

CobraAus

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I will place this link here as well
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
all nations are covered 100's of profiles 2D should be helpfull for what you are doing

sample

Cobra Aus

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Post #: 67

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:09:17 AM

CobraAus

Posts: 2322
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From: Geelong Australia
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just for Ron flower class profile

Cobra Aus

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Post #: 68

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:15:29 AM

Tankerace

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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Thanks CObra but I have already done a heap of new graphics for the project (about 3 months ago), including the flower class. Still, thanks for the help.

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Post #: 69

RE: IJN Heavy Cruiser OOB - 1/3/2005 2:30:21 AM

Marc

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From: Braunschweig, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
I would be interested in this data. My current references (which do not include Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War) indicate that Atago and Takao were fitted with quad TT and twin 5" in 1939-40. By AA-Cruiser I assume you mean the replacement of Maya's "C" turret with two twin 5" during damage repairs in late 1943. I had thought that Maya and Chokai had received an upgrade in 1942, upgrading to twin 5" but not doubling the TT. We already have Chokai as a separate class in our scenario, I wonder if Maya should be too. Indicentally we also have Isuzu as a separate class due to her CLAA upgrade.

Don

Atago and Takao should be fitted in 1939 with twin 5" guns but "lack of funds initially prevented the replacement. The change was not made until March (Takao) and April (Atago) 1942 at the Yokosuka Navy Yard. However, some preparatory modifications to the support platforms and magazines were executed in 1939..."
Yes, with AA-Cruiser I ment the conversion of Maya you described.
The book says definitely that Maya received the quad TTs and twin 5" guns during her conversion to an AA-Cruiser. Chokai sank with the four 4.7" guns and the old double TTs.

I wouldn't put Chokai in a different class. Do it this way:
Takao and Atago start the war with their first refit already done while Chokai has it not yet done.
Maya is a different case. Either you put all cruisers in the same class and all have the choice of becoming an AA-cruiser in 1944 or you put Maya in an extra class or neither gets the AA-upgrade. It's a question of taste :-)

Do you want the data in raw format or in WitP OOB format? The first would be easier. The data is not very easy to find in the book because it's quite scattered.

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Post #: 70

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:30:57 AM

Iron Duke

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Hi
This is all i've managed to find so far

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"Bombers outpacing fighters - you've got to bloody well laugh!" Australian Buffalo pilot - Singapore

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Post #: 71

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:45:46 AM

TheElf

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Great! That's all I need.

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Post #: 72

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 2:47:35 AM

TheElf

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Anyone given any thought to getting a sticky thread within which we can have seperate discussion threads for Ship OOB/Graphics, A/C OOB/Graphics, LCU OOB/Graphics, and others for general scenario direction? Who do we appeal to for that?

Do we have a general idea what this scenario is going to be about, what is it's purpose? How about a title?

< Message edited by TheElf -- 1/2/2005 4:48:25 PM >

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Post #: 73

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 4:52:53 AM

Don Bowen

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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

I will place this link here as well
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
all nations are covered 100's of profiles 2D should be helpfull for what you are doing

Cobra Aus

Thanks - picked up the Abdiel and a good PF-101. Will go back for more!

(in reply to CobraAus)

Post #: 74

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 7:14:38 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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Thank you Don.
Now that the wphex.dat file is being modded, I think that I will try to add some logic to the checker to ensure that units/bases/ships are located in a reasonable hex. Eg a ship does not start in the Simpson Desert (in Oz). I am slowly beginning to understand this file layout.

This will help if a player is switching back and forth between Andrew's MapMod and the official one.
It is a pity there is not a parameter to tell WITP where the game's root directory is (the default root seems to be the directory where the program resides). That way you have different setups all under the same umbrella.
Michael

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Post #: 75

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 7:31:00 AM

TheElf

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Latest effort. Ryan Fireball FR-1 & Seafire MkVb

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< Message edited by TheElf -- 1/3/2005 12:02:20 AM >

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Post #: 76

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 7:38:38 AM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Latest effort. Ryan Fireball FR-1

wow those look great! still planning on updating anymore japanese tops???

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Post #: 77

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 8:23:27 AM

TheElf

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Yup. Any requests? I'm thinking of doing the Ki-94 in my sig. Though I'd rather spemd my time working on more likely additions that will definitely be needed for the scenario.

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Post #: 78

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 8:43:09 AM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Yup. Any requests? I'm thinking of doing the Ki-94 in my sig. Though I'd rather spemd my time working on more likely additions that will definitely be needed for the scenario.

great! as far as requests not looking for any new latewar planes really. just cool improvements to old favorites

i love what you did to spice up the paint and camo schemes on the older boys...

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Post #: 79

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 9:15:19 AM

TheElf

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All you have to do is ask. Takes me about an hour now. Which top do you think needs work?

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Post #: 80

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 9:19:02 AM

TheElf

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Anyone know which Seafire variant is modelled in the game? Mike?

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Post #: 81

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 10:03:46 AM

Mike Scholl

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From: Kansas City, MO
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Ron. While you fellows are working on fixing things that won't come into play until
1944+, how about incorporating a "bandaid" to fix something that's messed up from
the get-go? I'm referring to CD's (or more specifically, the large, pre-war, Fixed
CD emplacements) As the game stands now, it's perfectly feasible to move in and
bombard TF's anchored in Singapore, shoot up the airfields and port, and only then
endure some counter-fire from the Singapore Defenses. Giving the coding of the
game this seems unlikely to change.

The main reason fleets didn't mess with such places was that their fire was MUCH
more accurate than that of guns afloat. Doesn't seem like upgrading the accuracy
is in the cards either. But what can be done would be to increase the number of
guns (especially the heavier ones), so that more shots would be fired (and theo-
retically, more hits obtained). It would make it more dangerous to do silly things.

I'll use Oahu as an example, as it is one of the most fouled-up selections on the map.
The game gives it 4 16" mounts (correctly), and a bunch of 155's. It actually had...

4 16" Guns
2 14" Guns
4 12" Guns
20 8" Guns
48 6" Guns (or 155"s)
20 12" CD Mortars
12 9.4" CD Howitzers (240's)

What I would suggest for the purpose of implementing the suggestion above would be...

12--16" Guns
6---14" Guns
12--12" Guns
40---8" Guns
48---6" Guns
40--12" CD Mortars
18--9.4" CD Howitzers

Even if it was not allowed to shoot until the damage had been done in many cases, this
array should at least achieve the purpose of making the other side think twice befor
attempting such foolishness. The numbers (as multiples) are a guess on my part as
to what would actually bring Large fixed CD units up to the point of achieving in the
game what they did historically (which was to prevent people from even trying such
foolishness). If anything, based on accuracy, they are low.

I'd appreciate it if you gentlemen would at least consider and kick around such an idea.
The Japanese Home Islands are missing some guns as well, so it's not just a push to
help the Allies. In general, the rest of the CD units (mobile) perform OK without any
adjustments.

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Post #: 82

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 10:49:36 AM

viking42

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From: Europe
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this is a great idea, it is indeed time to get a global mod.
If you need any playtester, i'm in,

thanks guys

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Post #: 83

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 10:57:29 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Ron. While you fellows are working on fixing things that won't come into play until
1944+, how about incorporating a "bandaid" to fix something that's messed up from
the get-go? I'm referring to CD's (or more specifically, the large, pre-war, Fixed
CD emplacements) As the game stands now, it's perfectly feasible to move in and
bombard TF's anchored in Singapore, shoot up the airfields and port, and only then
endure some counter-fire from the Singapore Defenses. Giving the coding of the
game this seems unlikely to change.

The main reason fleets didn't mess with such places was that their fire was MUCH
more accurate than that of guns afloat. Doesn't seem like upgrading the accuracy
is in the cards either. But what can be done would be to increase the number of
guns (especially the heavier ones), so that more shots would be fired (and theo-
retically, more hits obtained). It would make it more dangerous to do silly things.

I'll use Oahu as an example, as it is one of the most fouled-up selections on the map.
The game gives it 4 16" mounts (correctly), and a bunch of 155's. It actually had...

4 16" Guns
2 14" Guns
4 12" Guns
20 8" Guns
48 6" Guns (or 155"s)
20 12" CD Mortars
12 9.4" CD Howitzers (240's)

What I would suggest for the purpose of implementing the suggestion above would be...

12--16" Guns
6---14" Guns
12--12" Guns
40---8" Guns
48---6" Guns
40--12" CD Mortars
18--9.4" CD Howitzers

Even if it was not allowed to shoot until the damage had been done in many cases, this
array should at least achieve the purpose of making the other side think twice befor
attempting such foolishness. The numbers (as multiples) are a guess on my part as
to what would actually bring Large fixed CD units up to the point of achieving in the
game what they did historically (which was to prevent people from even trying such
foolishness). If anything, based on accuracy, they are low.

I'd appreciate it if you gentlemen would at least consider and kick around such an idea.
The Japanese Home Islands are missing some guns as well, so it's not just a push to
help the Allies. In general, the rest of the CD units (mobile) perform OK without any
adjustments.

Actually you are not too far off the mark on this...
maybe some encramental increases would be very appropriate, see this website:
http://www.cdsg.org/hawaii.htm
The Island of Oahu was heavily fortified, as were all of the major West Coast ports. An invasion in 1941 would have been dicey, and by 1943 extremely unlikely...

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 84

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 7:46:45 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior
Actually you are not too far off the mark on this...
maybe some encramental increases would be very appropriate, see this website:
http://www.cdsg.org/hawaii.htm
The Island of Oahu was heavily fortified, as were all of the major West Coast ports. An invasion in 1941 would have been dicey, and by 1943 extremely unlikely...

Shouldn't be. That's one of the two sources I used. And the main purpose of the
whole exercise is to discourage players from doing things their historical counter-
parts wouldn't even think about---or making those players who "can't resist" trying
the foolish pay the price for their temerity. Hopefully the rest of the group will think
this is a worthwhile idea as well

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Post #: 85

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 8:32:24 PM

Don Bowen

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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

All you have to do is ask. Takes me about an hour now. Which top do you think needs work?

Not sure if you want to tackle this but the aritwork for the British Singapore seaplane in the original files is wrong. We have a corrected side view (thanks to jcjordan) but not a top. I have one link with a photograph (side) and google might find some more.

http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/SHORT%20S19%20SINGAPORE%20III.htm

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RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 11:02:06 PM

TheElf

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From: Pax River, MD
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Hey Don,
Yeah, I'll fix it. But I have never seen one of these show up in a combat replay. I'd like to stick with A/C that we will actually see. I can't get to it til tonight though. I'll post the results in our new Scenario Design thread. Nice work by the way

< Message edited by TheElf -- 1/3/2005 1:02:11 PM >

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Post #: 87

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/3/2005 11:07:15 PM

Don Bowen

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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Hey Don,
Yeah, I'll fix it. But I have never seen one of these show up in a combat replay. I'd like to stick with A/C that we will actually see. I can't get to it til tonight though. I'll post the results in our new Scenario Design thread. Nice work by the way

Come to think of it, neither have I! Might be a waste of time to even do one! Why don't you skip it for now - no since expending all that effort if it is not going to be used.

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Post #: 88

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/4/2005 12:17:05 AM

TheElf

Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

Ok,
I'll probably be focusing on P-40s, Spits and P-47s tonight then

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Post #: 89

RE: Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod. - 1/4/2005 12:31:48 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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I just did a P-47C, D-10, and D-22 graphic...... So you can skip over that one if you want and focus on Spits and P-40s.

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