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In praise of 2 day turns

 
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In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 4:37:34 PM   
tanker4145

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I've recently been playing a two day a turn PBEM scenario and don't think I can ever go back. I was worried about losing some control over my units, but instead find it to be more fun. A few things I like:

1. You progress faster, and I like watching two turns of replays at once.
2. It only adds about 10 minutes to a turn since I need to do a little more checking on units after two days, but is overall much quicker then 2X1 day turns.
3. It seems to slow the game down. Because you have a turn where you can't micro-manage (the second day), you can't drop a unit off one turn, and pick it up the next and ship it off, or capture a city and hop on the train to the next one within 24 hours, the pace seems a little more realistic.
4. To me, it requires more planning since you have to think through what your orders will do for two turns. Do I want my B-17's long range bombing for two days and take those OPs losses? What happens if an enemy Surface combat TF show up on the first turn to hit my invasion?
5. I get more anxious about the turns since a lot more can go wrong (or right) in a turn. It "feels" more realistic since you worry about what your commanders may do in some cases. Sometimes they make bad decisions, just like in real life, this is where the additional planning comes into effect.

I know a lot of people don't like the idea of not being able to control everyday, but I just love the feel of it and it seems to slow down the game some which I know a lot of players complain about. If you haven't tried it, I recommend giving it a try. I was also skeptical, but like I said, I doubt I'll go back, and I'm thinking when I have time for another game to go for a 3 day turn to see how that works.

Just wanted to throw out a little praise for them and maybe sway a few of you to give it a go.
Post #: 1
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 4:55:13 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		oh yeah........ another convert.

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Post #: 2
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 5:13:12 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I've recently been playing a two day a turn PBEM scenario and don't think I can ever go back.
Just wanted to throw out a little praise for them and maybe sway a few of you to give it a go.



Preaching to the choir here bro. I only use single day turns for submarine based evacuation missions which I must micromanage. I always go 2 day turns and sometimes 3 day turn.

If things go really wrong. Well that is what that F9 key is for.

< Message edited by rhohltjr -- 1/6/2005 9:14:35 AM >

_____________________________

My e-troops don't unload OVER THE BEACH anymore, see:
Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu
TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
whew! I still feel better.

(in reply to tanker4145)
Post #: 3
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 6:46:12 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:


Preaching to the choir here bro. I only use single day turns for submarine based evacuation missions which I must micromanage. I always go 2 day turns and sometimes 3 day turn.

If things go really wrong. Well that is what that F9 key is for.


That is possible in AI games but in PBEM the turn lenght is set once at start of the game.

I will be a strong fan of 2-3 days turn if air units would be rested if above a player-choosen fatigue level, or you will have your planes flying the second day probably only to suffer more losses and be less precise. Air units still need much micro-management.

My own PBEM gaming sequence is two turns a day, one done in the evening with must checking and planning then sent to my opponent(s) and then I check the turn in the morning before work, did some minor changes or reacted locally to a new threat (for example 11 Japanese Cv appearing near PH) but still wait for the evening and next game day for the strategic reaction.

(in reply to rhohltjr)
Post #: 4
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 7:06:05 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Iwant totry it myself.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 5
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 7:18:08 PM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline 		As Tanker4145's opponent, I wholeheartedly agree. 2 day turns are the best (though I haven't tried for 3 day turns yet). I've got 3 games going right now, all at 2 day turns. Wouldn't trade'em for anything.


(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 6
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 7:21:51 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		because of my schedule....i prefer 2day for PBEM because on average i can only do 1 turn per day. That translates litterally into taking as long as the war was fought for me to get through an entire game. Worse, sometimes i miss a day if i'm really tied up at work/barn.

I've gotten the farthest in PBEM test games using 2days. Everyone who's taken the plunge with me found it wasn't nearly as bad as they thought it was going to be and ended up liking it. Its very cool to get well into the game after only a month or two of real time spent.

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Post #: 7
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 7:48:32 PM   
tanker4145

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Scout1, I'm glad we went the 2 day route. You converted me! It can be irritating when units fly too much and you get some more ops losses, but the positives outweigh the negatives for me. Plus, it's great seeing the time fly by twice as fast without each turn taking as much time. Plus, right now I'm busy as work so I only average a turn every other day due to work, so it helps keep the game moving.

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 8
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 9:19:37 PM   
Alikchi2

 

Posts: 1785
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline 		I would never have gotten anywhere in the games I have going if we had done 1-day turns. I like the planning element - and the fact that it means you can't recover from an action immediately. I can throw in a CV group and get some free strikes instead of one air phase before he immediately pulls out. Then again, if I put them in range of his LBA, I'll be in trouble, and it'll take a while before I can tell them to pull out.. just adds more uncertainty, which is good.

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Post #: 9
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 10:30:29 PM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline 		2 days is quite nice, I have to agree. It is more realistic as well. I just wish there was a choice to go to 3 or 1 day turns in PBEM if the situation allows/requires.
There are some things that you just cannot do. But on the whole 2 day turns make people a bit more cautios. If you order something stupid, that order will carry on to one more day.

(in reply to Alikchi2)
Post #: 10
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 11:26:56 PM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline 		Been playing 2 day turns for over a year know and I like it also
makes the game play out a bit faster and you only have to micromanage
half the time, if you screw up you pay as you would in real life and
not be able to counter in an instant.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 11
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/6/2005 11:48:30 PM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I have a concern about two day turns. I landed at this base in the PI, a base force and a combat force. The base was empty, and duly taken; the I order the TF to pick up the troops, both base and combat force, and land them in the next base, on the same island. The TF picks up a protion of the base force, moves to the next base and lands them. There was no oposition, so they did not get creamed. There is an enemy combat TF one hex away though, so they could possibly come in and cream my base force, while the moron TF commander goes back to pick up the remnants of the base force, AND the combat unit. On one day turns, you can fix up that kind of mess, on two day turns, that could be a disaster.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 12
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 12:35:50 AM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline 		Well the fact is it probably takes a day to load troops and a day to unload so
we are all playing slightly unrealistic anyway as it is a game.
in real life they probably would have had to march across the swamps to enable
the ships to move on so as not to get pummeled anyway and get more troops.
we all play unrealistic to some degree as the game mechanics force this, it
just depends on how unrealistic we choose to play.
taking bases with base forces is not wise...

< Message edited by CMDRMCTOAST -- 1/6/2005 3:39:21 PM >

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 13
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 1:02:03 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		two each his own

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Post #: 14
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 1:20:15 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		Feinder and I tried a PBEM game with 2 day turns...did not particularly care for it. Too easy to exploit the other players inability to react to your moves.

But, that is just my $.02 worth.

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to tanker4145)
Post #: 15
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 1:29:29 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I will never ever play two day turns.. I do not feel the game engine is good in pbem for the kind of needed reactive ability especially in cv duels

(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 16
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 2:15:28 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

taking bases with base forces is not wise...


That is why they had a SNLF combat unit with them! And for some unknown reason, it did not load.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 17
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 2:38:18 AM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

quote:

taking bases with base forces is not wise...


That is why they had a SNLF combat unit with them! And for some unknown reason, it did not load.



That happens, I have a transport task force for assault forces and
a transport task force for base forces, land the assault forces first
secure the base and follow up with the base forces, more of a standard that way.
I just feel that a mistake or a suprise in warfare is part of the game, not everything
goes perfect and according to plan and if I am not covering my invasions correctly
then shame on me, but I can accept those issues as they come up as a part of the fog of warfare, makes it more interesting that way.
I play PBEM with 1 day turns and 2 day turns but I would never go more than 2 days
as I think that is too much of a loss of control.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 18
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 3:49:18 AM   
Zeta16


Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline 		I play both and both are good in their own ways. As Japan I like one day turns, becasue you get less leway to make a mistake. As the US it does not bother me, mistakes don't hurt as much.

_____________________________

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." -Ronald Reagan

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 19
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 4:53:35 AM   
WiTP_Dude


Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with two days turns. One day turns can really drag along sometimes. With three day turns, sometimes you have to resort to praying.

(in reply to tanker4145)
Post #: 20
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 6:09:05 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

I will never ever play two day turns.. I do not feel the game engine is good in pbem for the kind of needed reactive ability especially in cv duels


Come'on Matthew, the reaction of CV duels (or any duel for that matter) was run on the local level. Not Supreme headquarters. Sure, you had some good local commanders and some idoits (but Darwin took care of them naturally). There's not been a "Supreme commander" that made ALL the decisions for the ENTIRE chain of command.

Enjoy your one day turns if you wish, but 2 days do result in a more realistic play.
Just my $.02.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)
Post #: 21
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 6:52:26 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Feinder and I tried a PBEM game with 2 day turns...did not particularly care for it. Too easy to exploit the other players inability to react to your moves.



The flip side is it does moderate the instantaneous ability to react to intelligence, particularly given the transferred-air-can-conduct-missions-the-same-day factor. With one day turns, the minute a TF is seen approaching the vicinity of a target, 100 Bettys or B-26s can be transfered and operational. IRL, the transit time would be significant, not to mention the lag in interpreting the intelligence and making a decision to transfer air halfway across the theater.

But, to each his own.

(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 22
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 7:22:48 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Feinder and I tried a PBEM game with 2 day turns...did not particularly care for it. Too easy to exploit the other players inability to react to your moves.



The flip side is it does moderate the instantaneous ability to react to intelligence, particularly given the transferred-air-can-conduct-missions-the-same-day factor. With one day turns, the minute a TF is seen approaching the vicinity of a target, 100 Bettys or B-26s can be transfered and operational. IRL, the transit time would be significant, not to mention the lag in interpreting the intelligence and making a decision to transfer air halfway across the theater.

But, to each his own.


Really right on that point, about the teleportation of air assets on a whim. In addition to preparation points for land units, you should have to "prepare" to transfer planes (anywhere LB to LB...CV pilots are gods and should not have to worry...seriously, as RL SOP would be to fly the carrier air group off to the local naval air station before reaching/after leaving port) I hate to sound like a moaner and know that it is the same for both sides GAMEwise, but c'mon...in two days, a 4 engine bomber can fly across 1/4 of the world, land at a base staffed by ground crewmen of an entirely different nationality and fly if the CO(you) desires it....never mind the lack specific armament that would be there...or the spares...or the experienced ground crew that knows the difference between a Merlin and a Double Wasp engine...

<sound of a scuffle in the background>

Ok, I subdued the thread hijacker...now, where were we...oh, right 2 day turns. Think they work fine. Had one going with Lemurs in 1.2, but when he lost some stuff, we put it on "hold". Currently doing 1 day with Herbie and slow as molasses some days...and the insta react stuff comes into play <SLAP!> Sorry..anyone want to start one? 2 day, that is...

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 23
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 11:13:32 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		You are correct on the example that you give...but here is the flip side of the coin.

CV group shows up near an AF with operational aircraft that are set to train or asw or some other set of orders that would immeadiately be changed if there was so much as a whim of the enemy in the area. Can't do it on 2 day turns. You can only sit and watch as your guys continue to goof off while the threat sits within striking distance.

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 24
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 11:25:20 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

You are correct on the example that you give...but here is the flip side of the coin.

CV group shows up near an AF with operational aircraft that are set to train or asw or some other set of orders that would immeadiately be changed if there was so much as a whim of the enemy in the area. Can't do it on 2 day turns. You can only sit and watch as your guys continue to goof off while the threat sits within striking distance.

Why on EARTH would you have an embarked carrier strike squadron set on train?
If it is tired, then select Escort/naval attack with 0 for CAP/Search. They will sit if no one is around. And as for ASW....again why would a strike squadron be set on that?
You have floatplanes for that, and DD's. If you must, set an SBD/TBD/TBF with 20-30% Naval Search if you want to look for subs. But, I think, that the best anti sub defense is to strip 3-4 DD's from the screen, form an ASW group with it and have it "follow" the carrier. But, that would just be conjecture on my part, as no IJN subs have come looking for my CVs yet..(of course, they spend most of the time behind nets)

(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 25
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/7/2005 5:07:00 PM   
tanker4145

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		tabpub, I think he was referring to the land AF base.

Funny stuff can happen, but it also happens with 1 day turns. I can think of many reasons to quantify why a local commander may not attack an enemy TF for a day or two. I also make it a habit of having at least one fighter on escort and one bomber group on escort at least at any larger air base that has multiple units to help with this. But I can live with the couple problems like this that pop up in order to have the game move faster.

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 26
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/8/2005 5:18:05 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline 		I stand humbly corrected; it was late and my eyes are not what they used to be.

Perhaps they should have included training in the list of secondary operations; if no target for naval strike, then train....

(in reply to tanker4145)
Post #: 27
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/8/2005 6:03:05 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline 		Another option is to rotate air groups so they can train in rear areas and not in combat areas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

I stand humbly corrected; it was late and my eyes are not what they used to be.

Perhaps they should have included training in the list of secondary operations; if no target for naval strike, then train....


_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 28
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/8/2005 6:18:17 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"Standing down" falls under the guise of training in WITP. If you're trying to rest your front line air units, do you need to transfer them back out of the forward bases?

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to eMonticello)
Post #: 29
RE: In praise of 2 day turns - 1/8/2005 6:24:49 PM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"Standing down" falls under the guise of training in WITP. If you're trying to rest your front line air units, do you need to transfer them back out of the forward bases?


I do as your front line is just that a front line in warfare, you need be ready for
anything and there is no better training than combat.
But to rest and train should be done in the rear areas that is why we discipline
ourselves to constantly rotate air crews in and out of combat daily.
Every turn somewhere I am rotating aircrews.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 30
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