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RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price

 
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RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 8:33:00 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		LOL

Are there any feamales playing witp as far as you know?

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Post #: 61
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 8:39:49 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

LOL

Are there any feamales playing witp as far as you know?


There is at least one and alledgedly two females on this forum. Dunno about playing WITP, though.

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Post #: 62
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 8:42:25 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

LOL

Are there any feamales playing witp as far as you know?


There is at least one and alledgedly two females on this forum. Dunno about playing WITP, though.



I remember something like 4 years ago, on the SPWAW forum there was a Lady, called Alexandra i think, who played Mega Campaign Desert Fox. She used to make INCREDIBLE and FANTASTIC AARs. I decide to buy my first MC reading her AARs....i remember everybody thought she would have been the perfect wife!

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Post #: 63
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 8:53:41 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Carefull she is still around (and married I think)

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Post #: 64
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 9:01:12 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Carefull she is still around (and married I think)


To another gamer?

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Post #: 65
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 9:31:11 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, You would have to ask her. She was part of the team that did Screaming Eagle Mega Campaign for Spwaw if I recall correctly. She did AAR a few months ago for Watchtower I think. Very good writer.

There are at least 2 Lady WITP players who post from time to time.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 1/27/2005 2:32:02 PM >

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Post #: 66
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 9:33:27 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Catphish

Matrix price for this game is not my problem (it is my wife that is the problem)


She does not care if I buy HOI2 and Flashpoint Germany 2 games $80 but to spend $80 on one game is something I will be in the dog house for

question is how can I sell my wife on this game when she thinks I spend to much time playing the ones I already own (UV WIR PACWAR HOI CIVIII TOS Korsun and many more) plus Chess rated 1700 plus on WCN


Give another title to Goodwill or some other place in exchange, therefore still having the same number of games. I'll warn you though that she will probably hold to that commitment with any new games after that, even if you only intended it for only that one time.

(in reply to Catphish)
Post #: 67
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 9:34:31 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

quote:

What is gallon?


One tenth of what my car's gas tank will hold. Smarty pants.


That's a car?

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Post #: 68
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 10:25:29 PM   
Catphish

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: columbus, ohio
Status: offline 		hey I think I will just buy it. Sex is over rated anyway

anyone know a good lawyer

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 69
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 11:10:16 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		OK a few points:

#1 - Only 1 or 2 people mentioned the problem of how many will not buy this based on tis price point. I've been on this forum for over a year and YES, I konw there is good support and everyone HERE likes it. But the problem is they are not expanding their customer base. There is ZERO reason they cannot offer WitP at $40 for direct download. The purchase and download cost woudl probably equal $3. What's better? ZERO "middle of the road" buyers @ $70 apiece. Or a hundred at $40 a piece? Or a thousand at $40 apiece? Ther'es a consensus for what is a "reasonable" price for a computer game and that max is $49.99 - and that's a boxed retail copy.

#2 - Excellent idea about the movie. Matrix, if you dn't want to make a demo for games like HTTR, or WitP, or FG - then make a nice movie for us to watch. Fraps is practically free and a movie isn't going to hurt your sales! In fact, Lock-On Modern Combat sold thousands of extra copies due to the cool videos some END-USERS made.

Matrix - you're in the business to promote and sell these games, and I think you're doing a very poor job with many of them because of this lax effort. The websites do a terrible job of giving you any kind of "feeling" for the game. Something only a demo or movie can do. And your current price-point and lack of demo/movie will only reduce your customer base. NOT a good business plan!

(in reply to Catphish)
Post #: 70
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 11:31:09 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Please why don't you go hang out at Harley HQ and tell them they would sell more scoots at 3.000 then they do at 20,000. I'd appreacite it.

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Post #: 71
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 11:38:44 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		What did you guys do in the past, when there was no such thing as a demo? I can't recall any boardgame that ever pre-published a trial version of their game to see if it was acceptable. Or maybe some of you are a lot younger than I am, and don't know what it was like in pre-computer days.

Go check out the gaming magazines if you want a non-biased view of a game. That's what I do now. Those reviews have saved me from wasting a lot of money.

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Post #: 72
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 1:18:03 PM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline 		Sorry for posting on topic.

Is there any game by Matrix that has a demo? It seems to be company policy not to have one.

I am a bit puzzled by this, it is not that hard to make a demo. For WITP, tutorial + Coral sea scenario would make a good demo I think. This could help sales, as many sites would host the demo.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 73
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 4:32:26 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

What did you guys do in the past, when there was no such thing as a demo? I can't recall any boardgame that ever pre-published a trial version of their game to see if it was acceptable. Or maybe some of you are a lot younger than I am, and don't know what it was like in pre-computer days.

Go check out the gaming magazines if you want a non-biased view of a game. That's what I do now. Those reviews have saved me from wasting a lot of money.


You don't even have to go back that far. The pre-internet days are far back enough. We got our game impressions largely through the box and gaming magazines.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 74
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 4:55:27 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I bought SPI's War in the Pacific in 1979 sight unseen for $50.00 (that was a lot more then than $70.00 is now) and I did not regret it. For Matrix Games WitP I had this great forum to watch the development of this game and the playtesters and developers who gave us their time to see the game go from alpha to beta to gold. That is why I bought the game the day matrix put it out there. I haven't regretted this decision either. I also own UV.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 75
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 5:08:50 PM   
Roger Neilson

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 10/27/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Is $70 expensive for a game of this quality? I know we have a favourable exchange rate at the moment but that puts it pretty well the same price as most games in this country?

Considering the level of detail and the small niche market I reckon its priced well.

Were this being done by a normal publisher I'd be seeing WITP 2 add ons etc at about $40 to push the price up as well.

Roger

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 76
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 5:33:04 PM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		I had no problem with the Price of WiTP, just like i had no problem with the price of UV. The way i looked at it is this way. I dropped the $50 for UV, and played that at least 4-5 times a week for 2 years - Game cost me 10 cents everytime i used it. MONEY well spent. I expect the same from WiTP. If it was a 1 shot, play it for a month and then move on game- then yes its overpriced. But its not. Heck it takes you a month to play 3-4 months of game time...

(in reply to Roger Neilson)
Post #: 77
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 5:54:25 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

I bought SPI's War in the Pacific in 1979 sight unseen for $50.00 (that was a lot more then than $70.00 is now) and I did not regret it. For Matrix Games WitP I had this great forum to watch the development of this game and the playtesters and developers who gave us their time to see the game go from alpha to beta to gold. That is why I bought the game the day matrix put it out there. I haven't regretted this decision either. I also own UV.


As I mentioned earlier, a demo for this game would actually turn most interested parties against it )it certainly would've done that to me). It's just a very bad idea to demo this game. This is one game where you just have to make up your mind on the non-box and the gaming media information, now largely supplanted from gaming magazines to internet forums.

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 78
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 7:27:00 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		I happened to see UV in a store I worked at for $19.99...I bought it and loved it at 1.1 for about 6 months before I even patched it. I patched it and found PBEM and have bee seriously addicted every since.

I paid $70 for digital download and $10 for CD on demand the day WitP was released. I'll probably buy WaW because of these two games. I don't see me playing it as much as WitP but it looks like it will be worth the buy. 2by3 and Matrix has my business.

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Post #: 79
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/29/2005 7:57:57 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Demos suck.

I was browsing PC Gamer looking at game reviews for some damn game I wanted to buy, can't remember (it's probably already faded to obscurity). Then, I see this "Uncommon Valor- Naval War PC Game review". I thought, I'll check it out, but its probably like HPS Naval Campaigns games, short and with very crappy graphics. I read the review and was impressed, but I didn't want the bland sort of graphics that were in the aforementioned HPS games. Then, I saw this screenshot of a Val divebombing the South Dakota. Within 1 week the game was on my HD. On the badside it got to my house when I had just come down with strep throat, but on the plus side I got to miss a week of school recovering.... and defeating the Japanese empire.

Did I need a demo? Nope. Do I consider UV a "demo" to WitP? Nope. Did I need a demo to WitP, even if I hadn't played UV? Nope. The screenshots and AARs and customer base would have sold me long ago. Besides, what good would a demo do when I ordered 30minutes after it was posted on Digital River?

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Post #: 80
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 12:07:34 AM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
its probably like HPS Naval Campaigns games, short and with very crappy graphics.
quote:

Black


HPS should really hire just one good artist. Their games look so crappy, that even half of the fanatic wargamers turn away in disgust.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 81
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 12:37:44 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		I think the Early American Battles series (1776, War of 1812, French and Indian War) Look pretty good, but their naval games are God awful in appearance.

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Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 82
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 4:51:58 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		In all my wasted years farting into a desk chair in front of of PC playing games when I should have been making more money and more time with the ladies, I've come across one demo (ONE!) which made me purchase a game. It was for "Tropico", a nice little build game which is easy on the brain and is fun as hell. All the rest were complete wastes of time, were buggy as hell, and were so limited that it may have done more damage than good.

Sooo, my take on Demos...they apply to only certain types of very small games or shooter types. Impossible to make one for WITP and it would be a complete waste of their already tight resources. I rely on a series of reviews and a companies track record with me personally.

Marketing this puppy is something else. If it were cheaper, had pretty pictures on the box, and was for sale at EB, what would happen? More sales? Perhaps, but I fear not enough to cover the difference in pricing it would require and worse still, a bunch of not so hardcore grognards would buy it, break their brain on it, and crap all over it because it was not what they expected. Much of this crap would be on the web and might harm the product and the company.

What are Matrix doing wrong...nothing glaring because they know their market.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 83
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 5:00:05 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Concur... This is a specialty product for a niche market of hardcore gamers. Increasing the advertising is not likely to boost sales very much, since the core group is so small to begin with.

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Post #: 84
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 5:16:14 AM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		madflava13
quote:

madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

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Post #: 85
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 5:20:40 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

madflava13
quote:

madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

Damn! <throws hands in air> Now you tell me. Gotta rethink my whole strategy.

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Post #: 86
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/30/2005 7:02:18 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

madflava13
quote:

madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

Damn! <throws hands in air> Now you tell me. Gotta rethink my whole strategy.


Yes, if you take your paddle and move it really fast back-and-forth across the screen , this will assure that the kamikazes don't get through.

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 87
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/31/2005 6:44:14 PM   
mashkis

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpinard

OK a few points:

#1 - Only 1 or 2 people mentioned the problem of how many will not buy this based on tis price point. I've been on this forum for over a year and YES, I konw there is good support and everyone HERE likes it. But the problem is they are not expanding their customer base. There is ZERO reason they cannot offer WitP at $40 for direct download. The purchase and download cost woudl probably equal $3. What's better? ZERO "middle of the road" buyers @ $70 apiece. Or a hundred at $40 a piece? Or a thousand at $40 apiece? Ther'es a consensus for what is a "reasonable" price for a computer game and that max is $49.99 - and that's a boxed retail copy.

#2 - Excellent idea about the movie. Matrix, if you dn't want to make a demo for games like HTTR, or WitP, or FG - then make a nice movie for us to watch. Fraps is practically free and a movie isn't going to hurt your sales! In fact, Lock-On Modern Combat sold thousands of extra copies due to the cool videos some END-USERS made.

Matrix - you're in the business to promote and sell these games, and I think you're doing a very poor job with many of them because of this lax effort. The websites do a terrible job of giving you any kind of "feeling" for the game. Something only a demo or movie can do. And your current price-point and lack of demo/movie will only reduce your customer base. NOT a good business plan!


I agree with all of your point.

I am a new customer as far as this style of gaming. I just purchased HTTR and one of my main reasons was price $40 and the other was the virtual tour. I would have prefered a boxed version but I am not going to spend $50 for a game. I also would purchase WITP if the price was lower but now I am going to see if I can a used copy somewhere.

I never understand how these small companies want to grow if they don't increase their customer base especially when it comes to new users. They may argue that lower price will lead to increase in users and that means more support will be needed and this is not the case since forums like this work better then most support help desks.

For example, take a look at UBI pricing. The majority of the games (IL2, IL2FB, Pacific Fighters, Lockon and I just placed an order for Silent Hunter 3) all boxed versions for $40 per game, except IL2FB which was $30. Now this is expanding your customer base and all of these games come with demos and tons of movies.

I think if you are going to offer digital download then you should lower the price and increase your sales. Then you will be moving out of this low volume high prices mentality. I guess I will be waiting for a used copy of WITP and guess what you will not have made a cent off of me.

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 88
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/31/2005 7:10:38 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

I think if you are going to offer digital download then you should lower the price and increase your sales.

I would think that demand for WitP is highly price inelastic; that is, changing the price would have very little effect on demand. There is no large mass of folks out there who are just waiting for the price to come down to pounce on it, and if the price had been $140, you would still for the most part have had the same 5000 nut-cases buy it who bought it at $70....

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Post #: 89
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 2/1/2005 1:21:04 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Irrelevant's hit the nail on the head...

The people interested in this game have been waiting for it since Pacwar came out. There aren't many of us, and the sad fact is that a game like this will not likely appeal to the VAST majority of gamers out there. We wanted this game since Pacwar came out, just like GG did, and we would pay any price for it. Grigsby created the game he always wanted, and 2by3/Matrix knew they weren't going to make a ton of money on it. Break even was I think the original goal. Basically this game was built for a small market, and other games such as HTTR, the Mega Campaigns, etc., were the "popular/profit" types. While it would be great if more people bought WiTP, chances are that we've come close to getting everyone who will.

The fact that someone is complaining about a $70 price tag for this game tells me (and I truly mean no offense) that WITP is probably not for them. Hardcore grognard does not mean someone who boots up the flight simulator, even one as nice as Pacific Fighters, and calls it quits after an hour or two. WiTP is a multi-year commitment for most of us PBEM players, and given that fact, $70 is pennies compared to the enjoyment we're getting out of the game. And trust me, I'm on student loans right now, so $70 is ALWAYS a big deal to me.

So in closing, if the $70 is a problem for you, maybe you'd be more comfortable with a HTTR or similar type game. This one's the big dog, and it really isn't for everyone. You'll be playing it for a decade or more, or else you'll hate it. There's no in between.

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

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Post #: 90
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