Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: Banquet

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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

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ORIGINAL: Reverberate

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ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yes, PH attack is borked.

Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing.

I knew there was going to be trouble when the last 1.5 build was sent to the beta-testers, and then released to public less than 24 hours later. Not that the beta-testers have ever caught anything before..........ever.

how rude

Maybe so, but that's more a matter of perception. Truth is the game gives clear indication of having been given short shrift in terms of design, this accompanied by what appears to a willy-nilly development approach. There is, after all, more than a little to fix.

What's perception got to do with it? To say that beta's have never 'caught anything' isn't only rude, it's insulting and totally incorrect.

In a game of such scope there's always going to be things that need fixing. Matrix/2by3's first job is to stay afloat. In doing so they may have released WitP with some flaws.. but they still gave us a simulation of the theatre that's unparelled.

Suggesting improvements is one thing. Throwing stupid insults at beta's shouldn't be dignified.

I've been around for awhile and I've read plenty of "insults" on this board, and going both ways, too. Why get upset about that?

Meanwhile, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if v1.5 were no more playable than v1.4, and for all I know more errors yet have been installed. If you read these threads as they mature that would seem to be the case as of now, and we're only a few days into v1.5's release. It could get very well become worse!

Have you forgotten that Allied Sub Doctrine was a "feature" installed by this same support staff based on what I'd consider to be idiotic requests from this very board?

Please, if you're offended by this kind of stuff, that's fine, but at least try to maintain something like a reasonable perspective about what's going on here with regard to the big picture. WitP wasn't released with just a "few glitches" you know. It was released in awful shape. And at a premium price to boot.

TJ:
I do try to keep a reasonable perspective. I think it is rude.

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As to the rest:
1. WITP was released after I waited for it for over 10 years; I'm glad I didn't have to wait longer
2. lf another publisher (which shall remain nameless but should be recognizable) had released it, it would have cost 20% less, would have had twice as many glitches, and we would have been charged full price for 1.5 under the title WITP II, except WITP II would also have been full of glitches until the second patch was released.

And going back to the original post, do you really believe that 1.5 was released only 24 hours after the Beta people got it?

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ORIGINAL: Reverberate
Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing…

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ORIGINAL: pad152

What's the point, it's now better to go after the allied carriers than to waste the time to attack Pearl Harbor

For Liberty! website

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ORIGINAL: pad152

Well pre 1.5 I use to see more ships damaged and sunk in the Pearl Harbor attack. Now we see only 1 or 2 ships sunk max and fewer ships damaged. In 1.4 even when no ships were sunk you would see 2 more pages of damaged ships.

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ORIGINAL: BlackVoid

Even without this "bork", the PH attack by Japan is a waste of resources. Not even a few dozen BBs are enough to interfere in the SRA. BBs are useless.

Attacking PH is a strategic mistake, because the US CVs are not there. You know they are not there. Why attack the old BBs?

If as Japan you start with the PH attack in WITP, you already made your first BIG strategic mistake. Really the only reason to attack is to get the points for them, though you can get the same number of points by employing the KB in the SRA and sinking all the fleeing ships.

If you want a historic start, play scenario 16, if you want to play what-if, play scenario 15. But in the latter case attacking PH is very very very stupid.

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: pad152

Well pre 1.5 I use to see more ships damaged and sunk in the Pearl Harbor attack. Now we see only 1 or 2 ships sunk max and fewer ships damaged. In 1.4 even when no ships were sunk you would see 2 more pages of damaged ships.

I haven't had the chance to do the PH attack since 1.5 came out, but there's one thing to keep in mind. Historically, the attack on Pearl Harbor happened once. We don't know if the results were high end, low end or average. Assuming it's average, then what you say may be an issue.

On another issue...

I look at this game differently. I find WitP to be a successful simulation if it can reproduce history successfully. That doesn't mean that it should always be reproduced in the same way. On average, if you do things in a historical manner, your outcome will be historical. If you want the outcome to be the same as history, why bother? Just read a book. I want to be able to do things differently than was done historically. Granted, we have hindsight, but both sides have hindsight. There's no way to prevent that with a historical simulation. Should the Japanese player be forced into the PH attack? Personally, I'd say no. If you're playing the game your way, do what you want. You may find an Allied player who insists on the PH attack. If you don't like that, I'm sure you can find an Allied player that will agree to your terms.

Personally, I am greatly appreciative of all the work Matrix is doing on this game. I've had the old boardgame of the same name and have never had the opportunity to play it. I've waited for years for this game and will play it the rest of my life. Is it perfect? I suspect that everyone can complain about some facet of it. What do I think? I think that right now it's about as perfect as it can be. Can it get better? I suspect it can (although you will never hear me publically complain about it). The work and love that has gone into it is amazing. I (and I suspect many of you) will never have the talent to be able to create this wonderful game. I owe a lot to the people who have created this.

Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: LittleJoe

Thinking about this i do agree with you, most PBEM's only allow one port attack, why not use the Japanese taskforce boost to take the KB south of PH to the Canton island/line island area. To possibly catch one, or two of his carriers fleeing to the south pacific, and then rampage across the south pacific sinking his Crusiers which are a lot more of a threat to you than his slow BB's.

Then use your one Port attack on Manilla, and hit it with the Mini KB, and betties from Formosa. sinking those dangerous subs.

You might not get as many points, but hey you stand a low chance of winning by points as Japan, wouldnt it be better to stall the chances of an Allied counterattack for a few months by sinking his carriers, crusiers and subs.

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ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

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ORIGINAL: LittleJoe

Thinking about this i do agree with you, most PBEM's only allow one port attack, why not use the Japanese taskforce boost to take the KB south of PH to the Canton island/line island area. To possibly catch one, or two of his carriers fleeing to the south pacific, and then rampage across the south pacific sinking his Crusiers which are a lot more of a threat to you than his slow BB's.

Then use your one Port attack on Manilla, and hit it with the Mini KB, and betties from Formosa. sinking those dangerous subs.

You might not get as many points, but hey you stand a low chance of winning by points as Japan, wouldnt it be better to stall the chances of an Allied counterattack for a few months by sinking his carriers, crusiers and subs.

This is the kind of "gamer thinking" that drives me nuts. First, the Japanese had NO IDEA where the US CV's were located. They new they were BASED out of PH, and hoped to catch them in port. You suggest that the Allies be "pinned" to the exact historical positions while the Japanese make full use of "hindsight" to hunt whatever targets they want.
Second, Kido Butai turned north on the 7th because they had to get back to their tankers.
And they (and the tankers) HAD to approach from the North because had they come farther South they would have been traveling the trade and air routes and been spotted days too early for any suprise. Even hanging around for a second attack on the 8th is pretty much a crock. The only reason I consider it "kosher" at all is that the Japs COULD have made a second strike on the afternoon of the 7th, As this isn't possible in in the game, it has some legitimacy.
If you gentlemen really have to play this way, at least play without the "surprise" and give the Allies a move on the first day as well. Then you will face at least some "fog of war".

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ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
I sometimes spend that much on a bottle of wine and then cant remember it in the morning

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ORIGINAL: William Amos

MOVE Zeros up to 10,000 feet set to escort. No use losing the fighters.

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ORIGINAL: LittleJoe

Infact i have never attempt a stratergy like this, it was just an idea to give the Japanese a good start.

Sorry you took it so to heart.