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RE: WHo uses the tactical system?

 
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RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/4/2005 9:01:32 PM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline 		I'm pretty disappointed about what I'm reading about the tactical AI. I'm going to hold off on buying to see if they can reasonably improve it so it's at least challenging when you're outnumbered. How's the strategic AI?

Also, mega dittos to Ravinhood. I echo everything you've said in this thread. Keep fighting the good fight, man!

< Message edited by ioticus -- 7/4/2005 9:08:41 PM >

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Post #: 31
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/4/2005 9:51:26 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus
How's the strategic AI?


The strategic AI is pretty good. It's too early to be able to make definitive comments but thusfar, aside from a few very minor knit picks, it seems to perform reasonably well.

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Post #: 32
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/4/2005 9:51:58 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Strategic AI is supposed to be good.

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Post #: 33
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/4/2005 9:55:25 PM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 6/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Strategic AI is supposed to be good.


Koolio, let's hope they can concentrate on the tac AI then.

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Post #: 34
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 12:39:32 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I wished they had left leader deaths in the strat mode for those that only want too play it and stay away from the tac mode.

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Post #: 35
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 1:32:36 AM   
bimbo1555

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I only like playing the strategic mode in these games...the tac mode does nothing for me, and so I always run the quick resolutions.

BUT, there is another reason for that.

If the AI is lacking in the tac mode and I run quick res, then the AI is essentially running both sides, with its own limitations equal to both sides, so the outcome will be more equal in regards to the battle itself as far as there will be no big advantage or disadvantage because a human will not be playing..therefore, the battles will play themselves out the way they should according to the battle parameters, so I have to really make sure I have the right mix of troops, leaders, terrain, etc. before I go into battle....I play this way in all these games and really don't think there should be detailed tac modes in them...for me they take away from the flow, not matter how quick they play out, and if the tac AI isn't very good then its almost like a cheat for the human and makes the strategic part of the game less important.

I like this game quite a bit, btw.

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Post #: 36
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 3:14:25 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bimbo1555

I only like playing the strategic mode in these games...the tac mode does nothing for me, and so I always run the quick resolutions.

BUT, there is another reason for that.

If the AI is lacking in the tac mode and I run quick res, then the AI is essentially running both sides, with its own limitations equal to both sides, so the outcome will be more equal in regards to the battle itself as far as there will be no big advantage or disadvantage because a human will not be playing..therefore, the battles will play themselves out the way they should according to the battle parameters, so I have to really make sure I have the right mix of troops, leaders, terrain, etc. before I go into battle....I play this way in all these games and really don't think there should be detailed tac modes in them...for me they take away from the flow, not matter how quick they play out, and if the tac AI isn't very good then its almost like a cheat for the human and makes the strategic part of the game less important.

I like this game quite a bit, btw.


Something I thought about myself.

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Post #: 37
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 5:26:42 AM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1048
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Just out of curiosity, for those who have noticed troublingly outnumbered victories, could you tell us a) what nations you were playing and b) who you were fighting?

(FWIW, France can often win outnumbered, and some nations, like the Ottomans, can likewise often be defeated by a smaller force.)

It would also be interesting to know if anyone has experienced this while playing the Balanced scenario. Thanks.

< Message edited by Mr. Z -- 7/6/2005 5:27:41 AM >

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RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 5:48:12 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Strategic AI is supposed to be good.


Koolio, let's hope they can concentrate on the tac AI then.


The tac AI is fine.

There really isn't any glaring problems with it aside from nitpicks. You're going to beat it most of the time as I expect any normal human should be able to do. Unless you're the type that considers handicaps given to the computers forces to be strengthening the AI and if that's the case, then as of now, prior to any upcoming patches, the AI doesn't get such handicaps.

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Post #: 39
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 6:46:07 AM   
JosephL

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline 		I've found that even with playing tactical battles (and often winning) I am not always in any position to win the game.

Currently playing Russia on very difficult level... I'm in third. Maybe I suck at this game... but Britain is WAY ahead of me (by about 100 glory).

I'm at least in a position to make a comeback by taking out Sweden... but :-/

So... I play tactical battles and it doesnt seem to influence me :)

-Joe

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Post #: 40
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 7:18:23 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

I'm in third. Maybe I suck at this game


That's possible. But, I'm glad you stepped in and gave a little more information about the end game. Very difficult level, very good, not many post of play on it after such a newly released title. You must know the mechanics very well or the game is still reletively easy that even on very difficult someone who claims that maybe they suk at this game can maintain even a 3rd position with only 100 points behind. ;)

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Post #: 41
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 8:09:39 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

quote:

I'm in third. Maybe I suck at this game


That's possible. But, I'm glad you stepped in and gave a little more information about the end game. Very difficult level, very good, not many post of play on it after such a newly released title. You must know the mechanics very well or the game is still reletively easy that even on very difficult someone who claims that maybe they suk at this game can maintain even a 3rd position with only 100 points behind. ;)


I think maybe you should own the game to make a better judgement...

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Post #: 42
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 8:33:43 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Remeber also that as Russia he would be expected to have an easier time than say Spain, Sweden, Prussia, Turkey, and Austria.

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Post #: 43
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 11:34:27 AM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z

Just out of curiosity, for those who have noticed troublingly outnumbered victories, could you tell us a) what nations you were playing and b) who you were fighting?

(FWIW, France can often win outnumbered, and some nations, like the Ottomans, can likewise often be defeated by a smaller force.)

It would also be interesting to know if anyone has experienced this while playing the Balanced scenario. Thanks.


I mostly play the standard 1805 scenario with all options left at default.

Playing Austria, I routinely beat a french force twice my size (other than the initial fight in Tyrolia where my forces usually don't get there in time to give me a chance). Not every time mind you, but much more often than not.

Playing Prussia I never lost to a Swedish or British force that at times was twice my size (though my morale was pretty strong as I spent some time building up before going to war).

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Post #: 44
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 12:12:42 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline 		Just to give a bit more detail since I'll be away for the next few days, the easiest way to beat the AI is...

form a line early. just pick a spot with some clear terrain. If you can line up behind a river, all the better but really anywhere will do.

On each end of the line, place around 3 cavalry to prevent flanking. The computer likes to charge infantry, but leaves undisrupted cavalry alone. If you put several cavalry pieces just past the end of your lines (leave them in column formation) then your enemy will charge at your line of infantry. Place artillary in the middle of the line with infantry on each side of it. Be sure to get it into line formation as well. Leave space behind your line, but leave no gaps in the middle. Keep a couple of infantry in reserve just in case a unit breaks and flees and make sure they have room to get out. Now, sit back and wait.

Their cavalry will come first and it will hit your line forcing the infantry to make a defensive square. After each charge, just return any unshaken units back to line formation and give them a good volley. 2 or 3 units can generally hit each charger. Artillary should pound anything out in front of it - even units further out. Be sure to aim it at units in formation to disrupt as many as possible and get the maximum kills. As the enemy infantry approach, their cavalry is usually pretty tired and beaten up. They approach your lines in columns. Again, just blast them as they approach. As units begin to break, they run off. Now your cavalry can detach and mop up for the really big kills. Transfer all of your generals to cavalry divisions and begin charging the disrupted enemy units. Keep your cavalry reasonably close together and watch out for undisrupted enemy cavalry so that you can shield yourself from enemy charges - the ZOC is your friend so position yourself to protect a unit as it charges. Move your disrupted units back behind the lines and rest. By now, they are likely in full retreat. Now is the time to send your infantry out to charge as well. Mop up anything you find. It's pretty simply really. And it works most of the time.

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Post #: 45
RE: WHo uses the tactical system? - 7/6/2005 1:30:18 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I use it but then all my battles so far have been small. (Even when I have a large army the enemy is only a few Divisons)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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