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RE: Proper Place? - 9/2/2013 6:03:15 PM   
Centuur


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So I'm a mosquito now? Personally I like to crush those buggers...

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/2/2013 8:50:38 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

So I'm a mosquito now? Personally I like to crush those buggers...

There was a question mark there.

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/3/2013 12:18:32 AM   
Easo79


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Steve,

I find the tutorial videos very interesting in concept. I hope, though, that when recording them, you have had into account that some of the users of the video tutorials are not going to be native English speakers. I am not exactly begging you something along the lines of ...Francis Mathews' BBC course lesson 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGiNjI1j2P4 , but between that and Travolta and Samuel L Jackson interchanges in Pulp Fiction (the only part I really understood is the “f**k” thing all over around ) there must be a solid middle point. Some clear declamation skills as Kenneth Branagh’s before Agincourt 1415: “We, few...we happy few...we band of brothers”....is what comes to my mind...

As a substitute, some subtitles could suffice. But, as I have arrived late to offer my suggestions, as a compromise I would suggest a subtle hint about what the Hawaiian accent sounds like. That way I could train my listening skills before the training videos themselves arrive .

Mmmm, Barak Obama was born in Hawaii USA (the Birthers have yet to arrive at Mallorca )....but, has he a Hawaiian accent?...a "YES, WE CAN" speech,...errr... would do the trick of getting me into it?



< Message edited by Easo79 -- 9/3/2013 12:20:09 AM >

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/3/2013 12:58:32 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easo79

Steve,

I find the tutorial videos very interesting in concept. I hope, though, that when recording them, you have had into account that some of the users of the video tutorials are not going to be native English speakers. I am not exactly begging you something along the lines of ...Francis Mathews' BBC course lesson 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGiNjI1j2P4 , but between that and Travolta and Samuel L Jackson interchanges in Pulp Fiction (the only part I really understood is the “f**k” thing all over around ) there must be a solid middle point. Some clear declamation skills as Kenneth Branagh’s before Agincourt 1415: “We, few...we happy few...we band of brothers”....is what comes to my mind...

As a substitute, some subtitles could suffice. But, as I have arrived late to offer my suggestions, as a compromise I would suggest a subtle hint about what the Hawaiian accent sounds like. That way I could train my listening skills before the training videos themselves arrive .

Mmmm, Barak Obama was born in Hawaii USA (the Birthers have yet to arrive at Mallorca )....but, has he a Hawaiian accent?...a "YES, WE CAN" speech,...errr... would do the trick of getting me into it?



Mine is a south New Jersey accent. Not too many deviations from American newscaster pronunciation, although I have to fight the urge to say 'wooder' when asking for a glass of water. The narration mostly talks about what is being shown/happening on the screen. I think if you watched it with the sound off, you'd get 90% of the meaning.

---

The Hawaiian accent depends on whether you are talking to someone whose ancestors came from Polynesia, Japan, China, the Philippines, or elsewhere. The common local dialect is Pidgin English which takes some getting use to: "We stay go."

Obama went to Punahou, a very expensive private school 2 blocks from where I live. His grandmother's apartment (where he lived) is across the street from our condominium. While in high school, he worked at the Basking Robbins down the block, scooping ice cream cones. Hawaii is small.

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/10/2013 8:17:36 PM   
Easo79


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I have read in another thread that WiF is scheduled for November (sooner than expected by me), but it has not been mentioned here, in the WiF specific forum. Perhaps to provide Steve with some degree of plausible deniability?

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/10/2013 8:33:28 PM   
fogg

 

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"The computer version of Australian Design Group’s (www.a-d-g.com.au) classic board game, covering both the European and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II is finally coming on your screens this November."

From the Matrix Website. In November it will be released!!!!!!


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RE: Proper Place? - 9/10/2013 8:59:03 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easo79

I have read in another thread that WiF is scheduled for November (sooner than expected by me), but it has not been mentioned here, in the WiF specific forum. Perhaps to provide Steve with some degree of plausible deniability?

What can I say? Or more to the point: what can I not say?

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/10/2013 11:46:50 PM   
composer99


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The word from Matrix staff (e.g. the announcement by Philkian) is a release date of November.

If it weren't for the fact that my Christmas present sits behind my usual laptop spot (the electronic piano behind the dining room table) I'd be asking for this for Christmas. As is... well, maybe I'll still ask people to go in on it.

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 12:13:59 AM   
ioticus

 

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I see this tidbit on the description in the store:

"IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release. It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames."

Are there plans to release an AI later down the road? Because for me no AI = no buy.

< Message edited by ioticus -- 9/11/2013 12:17:48 AM >

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 8:19:10 AM   
AxelNL


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Matrix asks for more Beta Testers on their site.....

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 3:36:34 PM   
brian brian

 

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Big news. Congratulations! To borrow a phrase from the nerve-wracking days of the fall of 1939: Keep Calm and Carry On.

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 5:37:59 PM   
rapidfire2013

 

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hi guys, didnt take news for 3 years and never try one of the beta mwif anyway but keep playing
So what is the best for now trying the link beta for pc mwif full game or the west one...

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 7:46:54 PM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I see this tidbit on the description in the store:

"IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release. It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames."

Are there plans to release an AI later down the road? Because for me no AI = no buy.


It has been repeatedly stated by Steve and Matrix that an AI will be provide free as part of a patch for anyone that buys the game. I for one plan on buying right away as I have no issue playing both sides . I did that with Decision Games War in Europe which does not have an AI either. And unlike WiF never plans on having one. Even without an AI, WiE is still an awesome game imho. So I have no doubts that WiF will be any different, with or without an AI

Of course coming from a long background of growing up around people that had no intrest in playing strategy board games, I may be more used to playing both sides than others

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 8:24:33 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I see this tidbit on the description in the store:

"IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release. It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames."

Are there plans to release an AI later down the road? Because for me no AI = no buy.


It has been repeatedly stated by Steve and Matrix that an AI will be provide free as part of a patch for anyone that buys the game. I for one plan on buying right away as I have no issue playing both sides . I did that with Decision Games War in Europe which does not have an AI either. And unlike WiF never plans on having one. Even without an AI, WiE is still an awesome game imho. So I have no doubts that WiF will be any different, with or without an AI

Of course coming from a long background of growing up around people that had no intrest in playing strategy board games, I may be more used to playing both sides than others

The AI Opponent will not be a free upgrade. However, it will be an incremental increase. What I mean by that any increase (delta) in the cost of the game with the AI (when that is available) from the cost of the initial release will be the cost to customers who have purchased the initial release. I = cost of initial release; A = cost of second release containing an AIO; D = A - I = cost to customer to upgrade to the AIO release.

I hope that makes sense.

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 10:04:16 PM   
fogg

 

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Release Date: November 7th 2013 (news from Matrix Games website)

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RE: Proper Place? - 9/11/2013 10:52:41 PM   
Easo79


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I am already very nervous...

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 12:54:21 AM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

February 1, 2009 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

AI Opponent
I decided that one way to reduced my task list for creating the AIO is to limit the number of different scenarios that it can play when the game is first released. I’ll do 4 of the 11 scenarios for first release and then add the other 7 as patches in subsequent months. What this removes from my task list is figuring out alternative setups for thousands of units in the 7 scenarios that start late in the war. Each of those scenarios has hundreds, if not thousands, of units on the map at the start of the game. If the AIO always uses the same setup, it becomes too predictable and easy to defeat. But to do a respectable job of designing alternative setups for thousands of units will take time and effort.

The 4 scenarios that will be ready for first release are the ones that will be played the most: the two introductory scenarios (Barbarossa and Guadalcanal) and the Global War scenario (which is virtually the only scenario ever played in over the board games). The fourth scenario is Fascist Tide, which is the European half of the Global War scenario, so it can use the same setups.



The bolded section definately implies that at least for 4 scenerios AT RELEASE was to have an AI since in a previous report you stated that Netplay, PBEM, and solo (against an AI) were the three methods that WiF was going to be able to do at some point. PBEM has been eliminated. Now you are saying that we will have to pay an additional cost for an AI? Are you serious?

I was REALLY exicted to see this game have a release date since I have been following it for a while now. However, I definately will not be buying this at release (or anytime soome with or without an AI) if this is the path you and Matrix are now taking. I have no problem paying for the full game WITH an AI that is part of a FREE patch. But I have NO interest in paying for a game twice. Whomever thought this STUPID way to sell should be sent back to school to figure out marketing. Because in case you could not tell, you have royally pissed off a long time Matrix customer and supporter with this stupidity.

I cannot wait until people find out the game is realeased for X amount, but without an AI. Then if you want an AI at some future point (1 year, 2 years, etc.), later you have to pay more if you want an AI? Do you honestly think this is going to fly? You just lost one buyer. I wonder how may more you will lose?


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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 1:30:18 AM   
wodin


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I must admit having to pay for the AI looks to me like a kick in the teeth to those who bought the game early and pre AI..really they should be given it free in a patch..just up the price of WIF once the AI comes along.

I'm not even buying it pre AI but I think this is wrong. Really not looking after your most loyal and faithful customer.

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 2:10:57 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

February 1, 2009 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

AI Opponent
I decided that one way to reduced my task list for creating the AIO is to limit the number of different scenarios that it can play when the game is first released. I’ll do 4 of the 11 scenarios for first release and then add the other 7 as patches in subsequent months. What this removes from my task list is figuring out alternative setups for thousands of units in the 7 scenarios that start late in the war. Each of those scenarios has hundreds, if not thousands, of units on the map at the start of the game. If the AIO always uses the same setup, it becomes too predictable and easy to defeat. But to do a respectable job of designing alternative setups for thousands of units will take time and effort.

The 4 scenarios that will be ready for first release are the ones that will be played the most: the two introductory scenarios (Barbarossa and Guadalcanal) and the Global War scenario (which is virtually the only scenario ever played in over the board games). The fourth scenario is Fascist Tide, which is the European half of the Global War scenario, so it can use the same setups.



The bolded section definately implies that at least for 4 scenerios AT RELEASE was to have an AI since in a previous report you stated that Netplay, PBEM, and solo (against an AI) were the three methods that WiF was going to be able to do at some point. PBEM has been eliminated. Now you are saying that we will have to pay an additional cost for an AI? Are you serious?

I was REALLY exicted to see this game have a release date since I have been following it for a while now. However, I definately will not be buying this at release (or anytime soome with or without an AI) if this is the path you and Matrix are now taking. I have no problem paying for the full game WITH an AI that is part of a FREE patch. But I have NO interest in paying for a game twice. Whomever thought this STUPID way to sell should be sent back to school to figure out marketing. Because in case you could not tell, you have royally pissed off a long time Matrix customer and supporter with this stupidity.

I cannot wait until people find out the game is realeased for X amount, but without an AI. Then if you want an AI at some future point (1 year, 2 years, etc.), later you have to pay more if you want an AI? Do you honestly think this is going to fly? You just lost one buyer. I wonder how may more you will lose?



It took too long to get everything ready. You are quoting a post from over 4 and half years ago (when I was young and naive).

Rather than have everyone pay full price now (i.e., as if the AIO and PBEM were included) for the initial release, a reduced price was decided upon.

As I understand it, customers who have already purchased MWIF (i.e., the initial release) will get full credit for that purchase price against the price of the second release - which includes the AIO. PBEM may or may not be part of the second release. I will try my best to make that happen, but time rules over all.

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 2:20:33 AM   
wodin


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This is where reduced pricing becomes a pain..where really your best just selling it at a set price and anything not yet in they get for free in a patch (Just as a huge thankyou for them buying a unfinished game feature wise) and everyone else will have to pay more for the fully featured game. Seriously think your best biting the bullet here let all those who buy now get the feature complete game free. I can't see this selling that many at the moment asit's lacking PBEM and AI for it to be a huge issue that the first version goes out cheap and they get a free upgrade.

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 2:21:38 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I must admit having to pay for the AI looks to me like a kick in the teeth to those who bought the game early and pre AI..really they should be given it free in a patch..just up the price of WIF once the AI comes along.

I'm not even buying it pre AI but I think this is wrong. Really not looking after your most loyal and faithful customer.

I'm not sure about your logic here. If everyone paid full price without the AIO, what would be my motivation for writing the AIO? More future sales I guess. But no additional revenue for the AIO from anyone who purchased the initial release of the game.

As I estimate my pay for my effort, it already comes in well under minimum wage. This is for doing work in a profession where the median salary is $75,000 a year. Forgive me if I am bit insensitive to advice to give the results of my labor away for free ("... given it free in a patch ...").

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 5:42:58 AM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

February 1, 2009 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

AI Opponent
I decided that one way to reduced my task list for creating the AIO is to limit the number of different scenarios that it can play when the game is first released. I’ll do 4 of the 11 scenarios for first release and then add the other 7 as patches in subsequent months. What this removes from my task list is figuring out alternative setups for thousands of units in the 7 scenarios that start late in the war. Each of those scenarios has hundreds, if not thousands, of units on the map at the start of the game. If the AIO always uses the same setup, it becomes too predictable and easy to defeat. But to do a respectable job of designing alternative setups for thousands of units will take time and effort.

The 4 scenarios that will be ready for first release are the ones that will be played the most: the two introductory scenarios (Barbarossa and Guadalcanal) and the Global War scenario (which is virtually the only scenario ever played in over the board games). The fourth scenario is Fascist Tide, which is the European half of the Global War scenario, so it can use the same setups.



The bolded section definately implies that at least for 4 scenerios AT RELEASE was to have an AI since in a previous report you stated that Netplay, PBEM, and solo (against an AI) were the three methods that WiF was going to be able to do at some point. PBEM has been eliminated. Now you are saying that we will have to pay an additional cost for an AI? Are you serious?

I was REALLY exicted to see this game have a release date since I have been following it for a while now. However, I definately will not be buying this at release (or anytime soome with or without an AI) if this is the path you and Matrix are now taking. I have no problem paying for the full game WITH an AI that is part of a FREE patch. But I have NO interest in paying for a game twice. Whomever thought this STUPID way to sell should be sent back to school to figure out marketing. Because in case you could not tell, you have royally pissed off a long time Matrix customer and supporter with this stupidity.

I cannot wait until people find out the game is realeased for X amount, but without an AI. Then if you want an AI at some future point (1 year, 2 years, etc.), later you have to pay more if you want an AI? Do you honestly think this is going to fly? You just lost one buyer. I wonder how may more you will lose?



It took too long to get everything ready. You are quoting a post from over 4 and half years ago (when I was young and naive).

Rather than have everyone pay full price now (i.e., as if the AIO and PBEM were included) for the initial release, a reduced price was decided upon.

As I understand it, customers who have already purchased MWIF (i.e., the initial release) will get full credit for that purchase price against the price of the second release - which includes the AIO. PBEM may or may not be part of the second release. I will try my best to make that happen, but time rules over all.


I totally get that things change as time passes and decisions made then may not be accurate any longer. The issue is it is hard enough to sell an item once versus trying to get the same people to buy it again based on something that many feel should be in the initial release of the game to start with.

You make a good point on where is your financial incentive to make an AI for the game if no increased revenue steam is associated with it. The problem is that I personally feel (others may or may not feel the same) that by going down this path you are forcing us to buy a 'pig in a poke' (Google it if you do not know what that means )

I realize that you, ADG, your new partners want something to show for all this time and effort. I do not blame any of you for wanting that. However, I feel (and again this is just me speaking here) that et el is NOT putting your supporters and customers first by going down this path.

So we have the following choices as customers under the current plan
1. Buy a copy of the game at release for X dollars for a game without an AI.
2. At some indetermined point in the furture which is still undefined, the game will be re-released?, Version 2.0? for Y dollars. Anyone who bought it for X dollars will still need to pay Y-X dollars for the 'new' version with an AI. An AI that many people here feel very strongly that should be part of the initial release.
3. New purchases will then from this point forward will now cost Y dollars

Considering the time it took the get the game ready to release WITHOUT an AI, why should ANYONE here buy this at the initial release when no one can say with authority when the AI version even will be ready? Even if you say the AI will be ready in a year, why should we belive that versus what you stated in 2009? After all you state very clearly that things changed since 2009 so there is nothing to prevent things from happening that delay the AI even after you provide a date for it to be ready.So if you say a year or less, it could take 2 becasue 'things change'. If the AI takes longer that planned where is our (the customers) revenue stream for any delays?

So as customers Matrix et el wants us to buy a game without an AI, pay extra for whenever an AI is ready, at some point in the furture whose date of completiion may or may not change. This sure makes me exicted about getting this on release, NOT.

What SHOULD occur (if everyone is worried about revenue streams post a non-AI release) is just suck things up until an AI is ready. Even if it takes another year to get it done. This way everyone involved still has an incentive to get the game working AS IT SHOULD from the very start. Instead of the absoultely BS way things are set up now.

Another way (which again makes a lot more sense from a customer point of view so I know it will not be considered) to help with a revenue stream is to charge Y cost for the game with an AI and provide the AI free as a patch. However, the parties involved only get the revenus stream from the X cost without an AI, The difference is set aside and does not get paid out until the AI is done. To me this is the way it should work. Not pushing off development, revenue stream, etc. issues onto the people, i.e. customers, supporting the companies involved.

It is just sad to see the direction this has taken so close to release. I wish you luck with this approch, but I will definately not be along for the ride.

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 5:50:25 AM   
brian brian

 

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In the long run, I predict little demand for a pure PBEM. I mean unless you like wargaming in real time on the calendar. The each-side decision points are just so, so much more numerous compared to say an Avalon Hill classic. And if PBEM isn't in the initial release, the new players of the game will learn this quickly. Connectivity of all sorts is so simple, fast, 24/7, and easy these days that I have to wonder who would sit through endless emails of "4 Cruisers enter the North Sea - do you intercept?" followed by "4 Cruisers enter the Faeroes Gap - do you intercept?" or even advance declaring those decisions. Imagine pre-designating FTR intercept hexes across the entire global map for the USA during an Axis impulse in 1944 (for maybe a half-dozen points in the Axis impulse where Allied FTRs might have to fly). Much easier to play against people on roughly the same schedule of occasional free time via connected machines with side-channel Skype, IM chat, cell texts, or what have you. Email could be used to catch up the game on each player's machine when lots of offline decisions can be made, such as placing reinforcements (technically subject to the sequence of play, which is easily forgotten) moving land units, production, etc.

But a pure, all decisions by email game of World in Flames just doesn't seem too desirable to me, unless there is some sort of 'override' to allow the other player to tell your units to do something, in a gentlemen's game as it is played sometimes with Cyberboard currently.

The AI questions have been sorted out here on a more than annual basis. A lot of new people will be stopping by and just now be learning the answers. Some sort of short version of it all should be easily accessible somewhere.

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RE: When? - 9/12/2013 6:17:07 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
So we have the following choices as customers under the current plan
1. Buy a copy of the game at release for X dollars for a game without an AI.
2. At some indetermined point in the furture which is still undefined, the game will be re-released?, Version 2.0? for Y dollars. Anyone who bought it for X dollars will still need to pay Y-X dollars for the 'new' version with an AI. An AI that many people here feel very strongly that should be part of the initial release.
3. New purchases will then from this point forward will now cost Y dollars

Considering the time it took the get the game ready to release WITHOUT an AI, why should ANYONE here buy this at the initial release when no one can say with authority when the AI version even will be ready? Even if you say the AI will be ready in a year, why should we belive that versus what you stated in 2009? After all you state very clearly that things changed since 2009 so there is nothing to prevent things from happening that delay the AI even after you provide a date for it to be ready.So if you say a year or less, it could take 2 becasue 'things change'. If the AI takes longer that planned where is our (the customers) revenue stream for any delays?

What SHOULD occur (if everyone is worried about revenue streams post a non-AI release) is just suck things up until an AI is ready. Even if it takes another year to get it done. This way everyone involved still has an incentive to get the game working AS IT SHOULD from the very start. Instead of the absoultely BS way things are set up now.


Why should all those who are willing to buy the game now without an AI be made to suffer so you can have your way?



< Message edited by paulderynck -- 9/12/2013 6:23:45 AM >


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Post #: 3444
RE: When? - 9/12/2013 6:32:21 AM   
Cad908

 

Posts: 1333
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

So we have the following choices as customers under the current plan
1. Buy a copy of the game at release for X dollars for a game without an AI.
2. At some indetermined point in the furture which is still undefined, the game will be re-released?, Version 2.0? for Y dollars. Anyone who bought it for X dollars will still need to pay Y-X dollars for the 'new' version with an AI. An AI that many people here feel very strongly that should be part of the initial release.
3. New purchases will then from this point forward will now cost Y dollars


I understand your views, but disagree.

Prospective customers are being offered a choice, which is the initial release with solitaire, head-to-head, and via Net Play over the internet. As I have been following the forum, the demand for that product has been strongly voiced by many potential customers. They want an immediate release rather than wait for the A.I., which explains Matrix's decision. The game's contents and future development plans are fully disclosed to the customer. The A.I. is not part of the initial release and the game's price is based on the attributes of the game, which is lower then the future price will be when the A.I. opponent is complete. The game will be available for those who choose to enjoy it, while others are welcome to wait for the A.I.

Now it is their choice, buy now or wait. Is that not being responsive to the customer by letting them make the choice?

-Rob




(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 3445
Let the market decide - 9/12/2013 9:12:25 AM   
Greyshaft


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From: Sydney, Australia
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So MWiF hasn't yet been released and no-one has paid any money in advance and the manufacturers are being completely honest about what you get and don't get in MWiF (Initial) and MWiF(AI) versions yet some people are throwing tantrums. I really don't see what all of the fuss is about. If you don't like what's on sale then just don't buy it. It might be worth a courteous note to Matrix to tell them why they lost the sale but that's about it.

How far would you get with your attitude if you tried the same tactics at WalMart ..."I expected this product (which I haven't yet bought) to have more features and to be available sooner."
You'd be escorted out of the store.

What's the point of ranting at the developer who's been busting his guts for years at far less than the minimum wage to get the product out the door? What do you think your rant will achieve apart from giving Steve a bad feeling about the MWiF community?

<a virtual hug for Steve>

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Cad908)
Post #: 3446
RE: When? - 9/12/2013 9:27:18 AM   
Neilster


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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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This is a vast project and Steve has been as honest as he can about its progress. I'm not alone in having followed the computer conversion of WiF since the late 90s and there have been many ups and downs in that time. The reality is that MWiF will be released without an AI very soon.

It would have been great to have an AI on initial release but it isn't going to happen. When Steve took this project on, he promised a Matrix World in Flames. He is about to deliver on that. If he says there will be an AI and PBEM later, considering that there has been heaps of work on the AI already, I believe him.

I have plenty of catching up on the rules, tactics and strategy to do anyway. I've actually dusted off my copy of the old CWiF beta and I'd forgotten how interesting and fun it is to play solitaire. I look forward to learning from human opponents and I'm sure there will be plenty of people keen to grow the MWiF community by helping beginners like myself.

As has been mentioned, if people won't buy without an AI, no-one is forcing them. There are plenty of other wargaming options until an AI is available.

I also agree with brian brian about PBEM but definitely nice to have as an option, as he described.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Cad908)
Post #: 3447
RE: When? - 9/12/2013 9:43:06 AM   
Le Grand Condé


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I have been starving of playing WiF for a full 16 years therefore...
With or without an AI, MWiF is a no brainer

Too bad for the kill-joys

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 3448
RE: When? - 9/12/2013 3:47:01 PM   
Numdydar

 

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My issue is not that the game is being released without an AI. I have stated several times in this forum how much I enjoyed Decision Games War in Europe which does not have one and never will have an AI. So I do not care at all about an AI at release or not. My issue is the pricing structure of the game at release.

To use GreyShaft's example, I buy a DVD player at Walmart where the label clearly staes that the player will not play Bu Ray movies. However, for an extra cost at some point in the future (which is unknown) I can 'upgrade' the DVD player to be able to play Bu-Ray movies. And maybe have digital sound too (PBEM) if we can swing it. If no one but me sees an issue with that, then fine.

However, I DO have a major issue with this. Especially since I know of no other game that has been tried to be sold to anyone like this. Especially since every game that Matrix will release for the rest of this year (and probably next year, and the year after that, etc.) ALL will be released with AIs. Will Civil War II have one, yes. How about Naval War, yes. All for ONE SINGLE PRICE. How many of these NEW games would you want to buy and then have to pay extra for an AI? How do you think this game is going to fly with independent reviewers with this pricing model?

Let's recap a bit.
Is it our fault (Matrix's customers) that the game took so long to develop? No
Is it our fault that finances have finally reared its head to force the game to be released under this stupid pricing structure? No.

So why should we support a pricing model that is counter to every game that Matrix will release just because of issues with development, etc. that the customers had nothing to do with.

Also, why should we (the customers agin) buy a game with a vague promise of an AI being delivered at some point? I would make the assumption that there may never be an AI for a whole varity of reasons that are outside of both us (the customers), Matrix's, and Steve's control. After all, Steve himself has have to backtrack on things already due to items outsdie of everyone's control. It just happens and this has NOTHONG to do with Steve as a person either.

What really surprises me is that many people complain about DLCs and feel a good portion of some of these should have been part of the core game versus having to pay extra to get the additional content. Like extra civilizations for Civ, differnet units for total War, etc. yet no one seems to have an issue with paying extra for an AI? Why not strat releasing ALL games without AIs and just offer them as optional DLCs? I mean the AIs are preety stupid and no one really needs it anyway. Right?

I do not have ANY problem, paying one price for a complete game, which includes an AI at some point in time. Nor do I have an issue buying a game for one price that will never have an AI. I do have an issue paying one price for a game that will not be released with an AI, but the AI will be provided at an extra cost at some point in the near or far future. I'm sorry but if I buy a DVD player (game) I will want the expected features, like playing Bu Ray (AI at release or in the future for free) when I buy it. Not provided for extra cost in the future.

Fortunately there are PLENTY of games from Matrix and others (Like Stratigic Command 3) that shockingly enough, WILL have an AI on release. Of course if Matrix releases WiF for a LOT less than I expect them to without the AI, then I could change my mind. The price point does matter . But if they expect me to pay $40+ on a game without an AI, then why should I when I can already pay that for games with an AI? Just because it is WiF? While that may work for some here, it definately will not work for me.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 9/12/2013 3:49:52 PM >

(in reply to Le Grand Condé)
Post #: 3449
RE: When? - 9/12/2013 4:51:37 PM   
Le Grand Condé


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Joined: 12/15/2005
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Well, considering that :
1- ADG has been selling the board game for years at a price largely in excess of $100 with all the extensions included in MWiF (up to $499 for the Super Deluxe package)
2- The board game doesn't come with an AI either

I would assume $40 is a very good bargain! (though I expect the actual price to be much higher)

If you are not interested in this deal, then move on and let those who truly are joyfully spend their money

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 3450
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