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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate

 
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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/14/2005 2:08:13 AM   
Terminus


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Heh! Just googled "French Frigate Shoals"; nothing special about it...

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/14/2005 2:46:19 AM   
mc3744


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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/14/2005 3:25:35 AM   
Williamb

 

Posts: 594
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Dayton Ohio
Status: offline 		Well this is a game where history can be rewritten so I dont have problems with a base exceeding its normal capacity.

not like a flock of B-17s at French Frigate is going to be a direct threat to the Japanese mainland.

Its just simple tactic relocation IF midway falls. Not a place like Iwo or Tinian that were very important for bomber strikes

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 1:25:02 AM   
Oznoyng

 

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline 		Okay, here is a bit of perspective. I'm not here to argue that you could put 200 B-17's here, though I agree that the Allies could bring in enough fil to make it even larger. The reefs, and the fact that waves are breaking indicate that they could have made it significantly wider and longer, had they willed it so. For the logistical capabilities of the US, it would have been possible. As is, however, I think you could have operated a decent sized B-17 force.




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Post #: 34
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 1:30:34 AM   
TheElf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, The FFS Naval air station remained open till the 1960's.
(People keep forgetting that in war it is doing what is considered impossible that wins)





Park two dozen bombers on it and there is no room to take off or land. And that's assuming the second dozen didn't crash into the earlier 12 trying to land in the first place.


Yeah but what you are looking at isn't a built up level 4 AF. That looks like a level 0 or 1 to me...

<runs away from the grenade he just tossed>

But seriously, I am not advocating gamey play, in fact I abhor it. The fact is Mc said he "built it up" meaning reality went out the window. He applied supply, manpower, Engineers, and such within the framework of WitP and created a whole new island the likes of which we never saw at FFS IRL.

If people have a problem with this FFS needs to be changed within the game to put a stop to an allied player doing this.

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Post #: 35
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 2:21:52 AM   
Tom Hunter


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Status: offline 		I went to the web site and read up on the place.

The airstrip was built by SeeBees, the original island that they started with was the size of a couple of tennis courts, they built the airstrip by driving steel forms into the coral and then filling it with dredged material.

The whole shoal is 30 miles across, and has 3 small islands, the other two were never developed. Truth is they could have put more airstrips there.

I am not going to argue that there is nothing wrong with the game, but I don't think building up FF Shoal is actually a big problem, or even a sign of a lack of realism. I do think the Japanese were as shocked as some of the people posting here, because they could not do something like this in the 40s.


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Post #: 36
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:33:05 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Not that I give a crap about FFS, but why is bulding up FFS any different than:

Johnston 4(1)
Palmyra 4(1)

And in many PBEM cases, Japan will at least attempt to capture build up of any of the following, to sever the chain to Oz (all are 1 normal, can be huild to 4) :

Baker
Nanomea
Nukufetau
Fun-n-fruity
Upulu

I don't have a problem an Allied player building up FFS, neither do I have a problem with Japan building up Baker (which is also very small btw, altho not as small as FFS).

Just keep in mind, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

-F-




FWIW

Airstrip at FFS = 3300'
Airstrip at Palmyra = 4500'
Airstrip at Johnston Island = 5900'

If it were me, I'd have made FFS 0(0). But nobody ask me... :^)

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/15/2005 7:36:00 AM >

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:00:53 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
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Status: offline 		Amazing. Look at that pic. Imagine being there if a BAD storm hit

I would HATE to be anywhere like that.

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Post #: 38
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:31:12 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I dunno. Seems to me that landing on the pitching/rolling deck of a CVE that's only 550' long, would suck even worse!

But yes, that little island seems fairly "cozy". I guessing you -don't- land on that thing during rough seas. The whole thing is only 2m above sea-level (according to CIA factbook).

-F-

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:44:02 PM   
Sharkosaurus rex


Posts: 467
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Status: offline 		It should be safe enough.
The person who took the photo is obviously standing on a hill.

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:46:22 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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Status: offline 		I'll stick to Reading I think. Look at the height of the Landing strip compard to the srrounding sea At least on a carrier you will much higher above the water.

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 4:46:58 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yes, a really big hill in the middle of the sea. Or maybe he was jumping up and down on a pogo stick?

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 6:14:24 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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Status: offline 		My vote is for the pogo stick.

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Post #: 43
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 7:40:12 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
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From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The Japanese airfield at Lunga was to be 2600 feet long. The USA lengthed it to a little less then 4000 feet.

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 8:42:50 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Gadzooks! That's tiny!

Just curious, why is it then that Lunga is 3 or 4, and can be built to 6(?). Is it the "AF complex" sort of thing, like at PM?

-F-

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/15/2005 9:17:15 PM   
mogami


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Status: offline 		Hi, Henderson Field




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Post #: 46
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 3:50:41 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Gadzooks! That's tiny!

Just curious, why is it then that Lunga is 3 or 4, and can be built to 6(?). Is it the "AF complex" sort of thing, like at PM?

-F-


Think so, besides Henderson Field the US soon operated two more landing strips in the Lunga area, called Fighter-1 and Fighter-2. They started as gras strips and were probably later planked with PSP. Maybe Solomons-Marky can report on their current state and use?

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 3:58:14 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Think they used Fighter-1 and -2 as dispersal fields when the Japanese bombardment forces came to call.

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 4:12:38 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Henderson Field






At least at Henderson you can park "some" bombers. I don´t think it´s a must to have a 6000 feet long airstrip it´s important to have the place to park your planes (and facilities to repair them). FFS isn´t a place where you can park and maintain many planes!

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 4:25:48 PM   
Graycompany


Posts: 511
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline 		the Picture used here to show FFS, is really "Tern" island, a man made island located in FFS. It was created in in Mid '42, much of the soil was from dredging to make a seaplane base. The area around FFS would be able to support bigger Airfileds had the need been there, but we all know that Midway didnt fall in real life. If it were to fall in the game we all play, I think it would not be gamey to build it up to sustain what ever you can put on it to bomb midway.

Tern was created by driving in over 5,000 steel pilings, in a 400 by 3,300
foot roughly east to west aircraft carrier shaped manmade island.
( most of this info comes from WWII pacfic Island guide, written by
Gordon L. Rottman.)

Its obvious the the USA had the ability to do this, I dont think its a stretch to imagine had the need been there, they would have made this bigger, along with Johnson Island further south,
think that if

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 4:34:11 PM   
Sharkosaurus rex


Posts: 467
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Status: offline 		The photo that Mogami showed us was fom the 1960s after years of disuse dust has covered the FFS real secrets. In WWII FFS had three of the new huge diamond shaped elevators that could carry a B24 on each. The elevators were so powerful huge shock waves violently shook the water of the lagoon (as shown in WWII photo- taken from the nearby hill.) The elevators displaced the planes between the runway and maintance facilities below sea level. A real engineering achievement.




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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 4:45:15 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
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From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The photo is a fake. In reality it is the USN's first submarine CV. There are 96 ac in the hangers but you can't see them. The sub CV USS Hunley was visting FFS when this photo was taken. The ship was so secert that no mention of it has ever been released to the public.
Now you know. (better hide )

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 4:49:26 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Uh oh, the Men in Black will come looking for you now, Mog...

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 5:34:05 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 5:37:49 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
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From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		its definately a fake photo. Everyone knows they used a big rubber band attached to two sunken concrete posts in order to catapult those heavy bombers off the runway.



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Post #: 55
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 5:50:12 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
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Status: offline 		According to the web site during big storms in the 60s water did pass onto and over the island, in 1969 they evacuated the station by helicopter.

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Post #: 56
RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 5:51:40 PM   
Bradley7735


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami
The sub CV USS Hunley was visting FFS when this photo was taken. The ship was so secert that no mention of it has ever been released to the public.
Now you know. (better hide )


That ship isn't classified as a CV. I believe it's an SSCVN (also the first nuclear sub carrier).

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 6:09:11 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Status: offline 		I bet Mog can also tell us who shot Kennedy.

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 6:10:37 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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Status: offline 		Yeah, names and adresses of all six of them!

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RE: Bombing Midway from French Frigate - 8/16/2005 6:11:01 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Status: offline 		Also WAS Armstrong really the first chappie on the moon?

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