Air to air combat terrible...

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Air to air combat terrible...

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Air to air combat terrible...

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Air to air combat terrible... - 9/30/2005 6:14:33 AM

plasticpanzers

Posts: 67
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline

Been playing Gary's games for a long time (from the
early days at SSI). Always had a problem with his
air to air combat system. Japanese aircraft seem to
fly in a mass of aircraft while US/Allied fly in small
groups. Air to air is one long string of Japanese
planes that every small group of Allied aircraft has
to run the gauntlet of. Nomatter the altitude there
are always Zeros there between US aircraft and the
bombers they want to target. US aircraft break off
and leave but even when the notation appears that a
Japanese group breaks off combat it still stays and
continues to pound US aircraft. Even with good morale
(US aircrews appear to have the morale of Italian inf
in N. Africa) and well rested with expierence in the
high 60s-low 70s i have seen 40 Allied fighters die
in one battle to the loss of 0-1 Japanese kill and
0-1 damaged. Even when outnumbered 2-1 my airgroups
are slaughtered. I have studied warfare for over 40
years and do not remember any airbattle where US air
groups lost 20-30 aircraft vs 1-2 Japanese in any
battle from 42 on.
Also Japanese fighter sweeps from Rabaul are nothing
more than free escorts for their bombers. They arrive exactly when the bombers do, never before
or after to engage Allied aircraft. Pretty good
timing for such long flights seperate of the regular
bomber force and escorts. They must fly station over
the sea waiting for them to show up! LOL!
These problems existed in Pacwar as well. I often
thought that the aircombat system needed to be redone
as a box system of height/width/time (3-d)vs one
long line vs the other long line as it appears now.
I also note that even when i do get thru the fighters
even with minimal figher vs fighter combat i have ONE
attack on a bomber (usually misses) and air combat
is done! how nice! must have run outa ammo! LOL!
Not trying to by snide. Just that his air to air
system used has always been heavy handed and tilted
toward the Japanese early on artifically. I called
it the "Super Samurai" system. Later on it appears
that the system starts an artificial slant towards
US fighters even tho they never really change in the
quality/morale/exp.
I enjoy his games immensly but often have to suffer
thru the air to air system. One bug that appeared
in his first "War in the South Pacific" was 4 I class
Japanese Subs flying off the Shokaku! Made great
dive bombers (must have taken up quite a bit of deck
space! LOL!) Only one was shot down and by AA fire,
must have made a heck of a splash!
Tim (plasticpanzers)

< Message edited by plasticpanzers -- 9/30/2005 11:23:16 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Air to air combat terrible... - 9/30/2005 10:23:08 PM

anarchyintheuk

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline

Yeah, those are valid criticisms. Most of problems I have with it are based upon the uber cap that allows each strike to be engaged with only minor penalties to the cap for following groups. The allied side is especially affected by this because of the coordination penalty (or uncoordination bonus, depending on which side you play). The penalty seems to me to be somewhat plausible based on '42 carrier combat. How the cap is modeled is not, based upon '42 carrier combat.

About the squadrons that break off combat (if I understand you correctly), I think the coordination penalty makes that worse than it appears. Most IJN strikes are one-and-done, so a USN squadron that breaks off has had its only shot. An IJN squadron that breaks off will have shot at the next strike.

The allies can do the same fighter sweep/escort tactic that the IJAAF/IJNAF can do. It just takes a while for P-38s to show up.

Be thankful, at least you don't have to deal with the zero bonus from 12/41-5/42 that WitP has.

(in reply to plasticpanzers)

Post #: 2

RE: Air to air combat terrible... - 9/30/2005 11:36:49 PM

plasticpanzers

Posts: 67
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline

I have not noticed that Radar give any help in getting
more aircraft into the air as well as the lack of effect of AA fire. In a few games i have stripped
nearly every AA unit on the Allied side and put em into
PM for no real effect beyond what i had their orginally

I am not just grousing about the system. I have been
playing wargames for over 40 years and computer games
inc SSI/Gary Grigsby games from Commadore64/Apple IIc
days. You adapt your playing style to fit the game
parameters or go crazy! LOL!

Usually after a time where it appears my efforts to
fly cap are only useful in training Japanese fighter
pilots (LOL!) i pull all my fighters out and just put
bombers on the base and will take about the same amount of damage from air attacks as if i had cap.

just finished another very unsatisfying game where
allied fighters drop like rain. gets boring sitting
reading about all the japanese pilots and their new
kills. i am beginning to visualize these "super samurai" japanese pilots standing on the fusalage
of their zeros and just glaring at the allied planes
whose pilots scream and shot themselves rather than
get into combat! LOL!

Had 60 F4Fs off 4 carriers engage 18 zeros with 40
or so bombers/torp planes. It appears only about
5-6 of my fighters made it thru and shot down a few
of the Japanese aircraft. the zeros appear to be
able to engage mulitple US aircraft at the same
time. I really hate where rules give specific units
specific ratings and these are tinkered with in a
very abstract fashion in the system which makes both
history and gameplay ahistorical.

I had 18 P40s and 12 P39s engage 8 zeros and 12 vals
over PM. half my fighters die or run off and the
rest never fire a shot at the vals. you gotta be
kidding. were our pilots that retarded?

again today in muliple battles i see reports of
zero groups 'breaking off' but they contiue to fight
and soak up attacks and my allied fighters drop like
rain. like i said before, allied fighters, except
on occasion (and only rairly then) are totally
ineffectual the first year of the game. it saves time and effort to plug em into a rear area base and
use bombers only. they may drop just as fast as my
fighters but at least japanese pilots are not making
the extra kills and getting expierence from hacking
my fighters to bits.
Tim (plasticpanzers)

< Message edited by plasticpanzers -- 10/3/2005 10:20:54 AM >

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)

Post #: 3