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RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century

 
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RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 10/27/2005 9:52:07 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline 		In fact, I only charge in the flank, that is my point, no matter how disrupted or demoralized is the Inf Bn, a frontal cavalry charge is suicidal, and it shouldn´t be

(in reply to Magnus)
Post #: 31
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 10/28/2005 1:06:14 AM   
lancerunolfsson

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		If hit in flank or rear even infantry in good order and morale should be toast most of the time.

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Post #: 32
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 10/28/2005 1:49:31 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Prussia's Glory do look very nice I must say.

(in reply to lancerunolfsson)
Post #: 33
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/1/2005 4:54:20 AM   
anvl

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Sheesh,, i misspelled my log in name,,, oh well,, anvl will work.

Howdy guys,, i recognize many of you from H&M forums..:) must be the smell of blackpowder huh?

I see as well the many of the same debates are already starting up .. I noticed a pretty long thread on cav charges vs infantry.. sound familier? That debate will never be solved,, alas too many just want to decimate, unhistorically, infantry with any kind of cav charge..

As for the debates concerning H&M2,, I have found that if two people who enjoy the SYW,its tactics etc,,and try to emulate them in play that H&M2 does a pretty good job of representing the era.. Most computer games,,no,,games in general, have their rules\mechanics problems,, so to take advantage of them only takes playing a few times,,and look out,, no longer does the game model reality.. Sorry,Iñaki Harrizabalagatar,, but i think that is your problem,, You should try understanding the tactics of the time,,play them against a like opponent,,and see what happens then..

It will be interesting to see how this game handles the era of Black Powder.. If it is to be Napoleonic it must have tactics to cover columns of attack, columns en mass, etc as was done,, and sure as i am writing here,, someone will do a mod for the SYW,,and just watch them use these tactics against Frederick,,and the forthcoming rhetoric!!

As far as the graphics\game engine goes,, well,, without a good playing game,, the graphics won't carry it.. oth,, we do have our high powered computers for a reason,,,Graphics anyone? I find it interesting that someone with a background in miniatures complains about graphics taking away from a game... Dont we do Miniatures instead of boardgames for the graphics enhancements? I've spent a lot of time painting my miniatures,designing terrain,setting up tables,sand and otherwise for the "graphics enhancenents",,and would feel shortchanged if this wasn't a focuse of computer gaming.. Great graphics does not in anyway compete with the game engine,,it does just that,,enhances it..As our computers get more and more powerful,, the two should go hand in hand for our enjoyment...

For my own preferences,, i would rather see a game created to cover the whole of our era,,the era of Blackpowder,, instead of specifically for Napoleonic,,. If it were done this way, then modders could have a field day creating uniforms for so many subperiods,,and the game engine should work for the whole 300 years.. if it is done with a focus on Napoleonic, then the tendency to mod other periods would tend to be less successful in my opinion,,but time will tell. Age of Rifles was the last really successful attempt at this,,and that was a great lil game,,but as i said above,, to really make this work,, the scenario must be designed to show the tactics of the time,,or two players must agree to play within the tactics of the time,,

anyway enough for now,,

anvil

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 34
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/1/2005 9:22:14 PM   
amrcg

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anvl
It will be interesting to see how this game handles the era of Black Powder.. If it is to be Napoleonic it must have tactics to cover columns of attack, columns en mass, etc as was done,, and sure as i am writing here,, someone will do a mod for the SYW,,and just watch them use these tactics against Frederick,,and the forthcoming rhetoric!!

As far as I understand it, from the description of BPW/NB, and some answers in this forum, it will be possible to limit the formations that certain unit types can use (just like in H&M2). This is required to simulate the begining of the Napoleonic period, including the wars of the French Revolution, War of the Oranges, etc. So, cheating by playing SYW with irrealistic/later Napoleonic tactics will not be an issue, I think.

Concerning graphics, personally I have always preferred tactical simulation. Sometimes I played miniature rules, but using paper counters instead of miniatures. I admit that good graphics - though not essential - can add to the feeling. I remember for example how I enjoyed the Fields Of Glory real-time napoleonic wargame in terms of the battlefield animation. Anyway, if the graphics implementation will consume development resources that would otherwise be used to improve the simulation, please give me bad graphics instead.

Cheers,
Antonio

(in reply to anvl)
Post #: 35
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/2/2005 12:38:32 AM   
lancerunolfsson

 

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quote:

please give me bad graphics instead.

Well there is a diference between Bad and adequate graphics;^) I find the 2d graphics in the Talonsoft Battle Ground and campign series really really adequate. OTH I find the HPS 3 d (isometric?) graphics really unpleasant to look at. I felt the same way about the first HnM2 release but Prussias glory actually looks really good. I have to agree that is sounds weird for a miniature player to think that graphics detract form a game. But am in concurence with the sentiment that I fear that graphics can take away from available development resources eg money. And I have a ton of miniatures but they are "adequate" as aposed to spectacular;^)

(in reply to amrcg)
Post #: 36
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/2/2005 6:32:08 PM   
anvl

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
[/quote]
As far as I understand it, from the description of BPW/NB, and some answers in this forum, it will be possible to limit the formations that certain unit types can use (just like in H&M2). This is required to simulate the begining of the Napoleonic period, including the wars of the French Revolution, War of the Oranges, etc. So, cheating by playing SYW with irrealistic/later Napoleonic tactics will not be an issue, I think.

[/quote]

hope this works,,it is my first attempt at "quoting". anyway that is a good solution. The point is that gamers can always play a game and figure out its shortcomings,,then play to these and call the game unhistorical,or a badly designed game. We just don't know how much of these problems are due to poor\too expensive programming or actually limited by our computers of the moment,, If this is the case, than, other than to make constructive criticisms, it is best to play with those who understand the tactics and strategies of the subperiod, and stick to these. But we are all human and this is tough to do.

their is and prolly will be the two groups of gamers,,concerning graphics,,those with a strong boardgame background and those who come from a miniatures background,,recognising the overlap btw.. And we all have certainly seen those games that go for the glitz and sacrefice mechanics\engine,, but those are not even worth considering by me for any reason. I come from a strong miniatures background, and believe that the one doesn't take away from the other,,and for economics, a combination of the two creats the best avenue for economics.So this is a personal choice,,and surly not a critique of the quality of a game. My examples of this are Age of Rifles,, still a great game from the time when Dos was at its peak,,and Rome-Total War. The former is my favorite all time game,,it covers my main periods of interest, the graphics were superbe for its time, and the gaming engine allowed such diversity of period, and easily modable by those interested. RTW is close, but it is the wrong period of interest for me,,altho i play it quite a bit. The mechanics and graphics make my point. But RTW is just the next step, not the ultimate,, their are still many tactical problems,,very similer to those found in H&M2. But the overall plabability and "feel" is really superb.The nappy mod for MTW illustrates my point,,that a game can be modded, but if it is created specefically for an era,,or subperiod,it is best played that way,,even if the mod is really good,,

So my wish is for a game for our era,,the era of blackpowder,,approx 300 years that is easily modable so we gamers can creat our own subperiods for all to play and enjoy..oh,,and with great graphics :)

Lance,, I too have many miniatures,,from simple to superb paint jobs,,and hope to find a game that i can get involved in the graphics end.. and leave my paints behind..

anvil

(in reply to amrcg)
Post #: 37
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/2/2005 8:27:01 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anvl

As for the debates concerning H&M2,, I have found that if two people who enjoy the SYW,its tactics etc,,and try to emulate them in play that H&M2 does a pretty good job of representing the era.. Most computer games,,no,,games in general, have their rules\mechanics problems,, so to take advantage of them only takes playing a few times,,and look out,, no longer does the game model reality.. Sorry,Iñaki Harrizabalagatar,, but i think that is your problem,, You should try understanding the tactics of the time,,play them against a like opponent,,and see what happens then..


I think you are partially right, all games have their rules/mechanics problems, but some more than others, and I am afraid H&M2 is one having too many. As for your suggestion, I already tried it, playing with house rules, so that the game doesn´t look so weird in relation to historical tactics. Unfortunately, the high random in every aspect of game calculations ruins so much of the fun that I am no longer playing H&M2.

(in reply to anvl)
Post #: 38
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/3/2005 1:04:38 AM   
lancerunolfsson

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/7/2005
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quote:

So my wish is for a game for our era,,the era of blackpowder,,approx 300 years that is easily modable so we gamers can creat our own subperiods for all to play and enjoy..oh,,and with great graphics :)

That of course is ideal:^)

Age of rifles is a very nice game one thing I really like about is the Unit graphics editor. though unfortunately it does not work correctly all the time it is very anoying that my 1870 Russians disply as haveing bare feet!! Though I selected white pants tucked into boots. Other than that a few of the terraine features are pretty funky looking. And not enough zoom levels but it still stacks up nicely vs some more recent efforts.

quote:

I too have many miniatures,,from simple to superb paint jobs,,and hope to find a game that i can get involved in the graphics end.. and leave my paints behind..

I do have to admit I don't paint as much as I did in years past. But I find miniature, Board and computer games all have their own place. Miniatures and board games are much better for Face to Face play. But computer games have the advantage of being easier to play and do no take up as much room. One of the big advantages of board and miniatures though is that they are very easey to change if some rule is not working well. I am fortunate in having face to face oponents. But can remember many times when there was no one to play with and I really could have used computer games at those times. Even an AI is more fun than solitaire play for me;^)

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 39
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/8/2005 1:24:24 AM   
anvl

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Lance,, it sounds like you still play AOR? I have been looking into it and am thinking of trying it under winxp... and see what happens.

I am not quite so lucky,, in that way, I live in the mountains and am just too far away from my good gaming parters of the past, so a good miniatures game is a real treat for me. and i agree,, a poor AI nearly always beats a good solitare game,,:)


Iñaki Harrizabalagatar,,

I remember your topics on the random factor,,tried to duplicate it, and was never able to so don't know what to say,, I did play your scenarios,, still have them btw... sorry you were unhappy with the game ( H&M2). Such is life,, for me it is still a good game.

anvil

(in reply to lancerunolfsson)
Post #: 40
RE: Early Napoleonic Armies: 18th century - 11/8/2005 2:18:07 AM   
lancerunolfsson

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Lance,, it sounds like you still play AOR?


Anvil,
It has been a couple of years since I actually played a game all the way through though every once in a while I start it up and look at scenarios. If you want to try it on XP I think you can navigate to some info on making it work from here
http://www.wargamer.com/aor/default.asp
I still run most of my computers 98 so have not tried it with XP.

(in reply to anvl)
Post #: 41
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