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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 1:32:35 AM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		That's if they return to base at the end of the turn; if they do so during a naval move they can always be reorganized and sent back out to sea to ship resources.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 1:41:42 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
11.4.1 Definition of ‘naval move’

(c) Return a task force of FACE-UP surface naval units from one section of a sea-box to ONE port (see 13.4 Return to base).



Then why under "11.4.1 Definition of ‘naval move’" does it say "see 13.4 Return to base"?

Yes, I have a word document of 11.1 Naval movement.



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Post #: 482
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 2:15:49 AM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		Extraneous:

The RAW reference to §13.4 in §11.4.1 is there because the procedure for returning to base by units at sea is listed in §13.4 in full.

This is unfortunate, because it mixes up generic rules for naval units returning to base with the rules for final return to base during the end of the turn.

However, any naval unit that is returned to base as part of §11.4.1 can be reorganized (§11.18) and sent back out to sea during a subsequent impulse (if there is one). Convoys at sea can ship resources & build points.

The restriction to which you refer quite clearly, IMO, refers to convoy points that are returned to base during the actual final return to base step during the end-of-turn sequence of play, and not to convoys that are returned to base during the naval movement step (unless of course they stay in port and do not sail out again).

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 5:58:46 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The RAW reference to §13.4 in §11.4.1 is there because the procedure for returning to base by units at sea is listed in §13.4 in full.

This is unfortunate, because it mixes up generic rules for naval units returning to base with the rules for final return to base during the end of the turn.

However, any naval unit that is returned to base as part of §11.4.1 can be reorganized (§11.18) and sent back out to sea during a subsequent impulse (if there is one). Convoys at sea can ship resources & build points.

The restriction to which you refer quite clearly, IMO, refers to convoy points that are returned to base during the actual final return to base step during the end-of-turn sequence of play, and not to convoys that are returned to base during the naval movement step (unless of course they stay in port and do not sail out again).



I can understand your view but doesn't "CP's in port cannot be used to transport resources" sound kind of odd?

Because that's where the CP's would be if they returned to port during 13.4 Return to base step when it came time to trace your resources during production.


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Post #: 484
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 8:17:03 AM   
paulderynck


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Status: offline 		Are you saying if they return to base, get re-orged, and then go to sea again in the same turn, you think they can't convoy resources that turn?

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Post #: 485
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 12:59:07 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Are you saying if they return to base, get re-orged, and then go to sea again in the same turn, you think they can't convoy resources that turn?


Yes exactly as I did in my post #480.

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Post #: 486
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 2:00:44 PM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		As far as I can see, that is an incorrect interpretation of RAW. IMO, it is possible because of how the rules were organized (instead of, say, having the procedure for returning to base included in §11.4.1 and referring to them in §13.4).

It strikes me as very unlikely that Harry Rowland intended to impose such a restriction on players.

I will bring it up on the Yahoo!Groups discussion list to see if others have interpreted the rule in this fashion.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 4:25:41 PM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		My inquiry on the wifdiscussion list:
quote:

[I]s it the case that a convoy point thar RTBs, whatever the reason, during a regular impulse can no longer ship resources even if it is redeployed to sea, or (as I contend) not?


The responses:

(Response from the list.)
quote:


No. All that matters is where a CP is when resources are transported. I'll get this to the rules list as well.


(Follow up to the above.)
quote:


Actually, no need to refer to the rules list. The section of the rule quoted applies to CPs returning to base during the end of turn phase, not during the turn itself. If CPs return to base at the end of the turn, it is before resources and BPs are ferried.


(Response direct to my own email.)
quote:


If you sai[l] convoy points home during an impulse the[y] have to be [reorganized] by a[n] HQ or ATR, then the[y] are able to sail out again in a later impulse and stay at sea to transport resourses or keep supply.


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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 8:14:56 PM   
brian brian

 

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Status: offline 		I have never wanted the rules to hold your hand on every single tiny possible reading implication in them. If you want rules like that, they will be 3x longer and we would have 3x less players. You have to use basic common sense at times, or this game is quite simply not for you.


Should the CW AI try this build schedule:

S/O 40: Fort/4

N/D 40: PARA, AMPH face-up

J/F 41: MAR, MOT

M/A 41: 3 INF or MIL

and then raid Brest in Jul/Aug 41, hoping to drop the Fort there in Sep/Oct, with Singapore as an alternate destination if you can't clear it of ZoC?

Or is this a little too aggressive when the CW might need to be maximizing economic aid to the Soviets along with an Alexander led BEF in northern or southern Russia, while perhaps starting the first few Free French forces?

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 9:32:12 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

My inquiry on the wifdiscussion list:
quote:

[I]s it the case that a convoy point thar RTBs, whatever the reason, during a regular impulse can no longer ship resources even if it is redeployed to sea, or (as I contend) not?


The responses:

(Response from the list.)
quote:


No. All that matters is where a CP is when resources are transported. I'll get this to the rules list as well.


(Follow up to the above.)
quote:


Actually, no need to refer to the rules list. The section of the rule quoted applies to CPs returning to base during the end of turn phase, not during the turn itself. If CPs return to base at the end of the turn, it is before resources and BPs are ferried.


(Response direct to my own email.)
quote:


If you sai[l] convoy points home during an impulse the[y] have to be [reorganized] by a[n] HQ or ATR, then the[y] are able to sail out again in a later impulse and stay at sea to transport resourses or keep supply.



So their response is:

CP's that return to port during the return to base step cannot be used to transport resources.

Because they are in port.

Well they are your experts and we have to abide their rulings.

I would suggest that, "If they do return to base, they won’t be able to convoy resources in the production step of this turn." be removed from 13.4 Return to base in the RAC to avoid confusion.


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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 9:55:35 PM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		OK, now I'm just confused.

As far as I know, no one on this forum is suggesting that convoy points that return to base during the corresponding step at the end of the turn are able to ship resources or build points. I am sure everyone is in agreement on this point.

What we were discussing was returning convoy points to a port during a normal impulse, reorganizing them at the end of that impulse, and then putting them back out to sea during a subsequent impulse, all in the same turn. As a result, these redeployed convoy points would be able to ship resources or build points as required.

As per your posts #480 and #486 it appears you were arguing that this was not possible.

Am I missing something here?

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/4/2013 10:01:05 PM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Should the CW AI try this build schedule:

S/O 40: Fort/4

N/D 40: PARA, AMPH face-up

J/F 41: MAR, MOT

M/A 41: 3 INF or MIL

and then raid Brest in Jul/Aug 41, hoping to drop the Fort there in Sep/Oct, with Singapore as an alternate destination if you can't clear it of ZoC?

Or is this a little too aggressive when the CW might need to be maximizing economic aid to the Soviets along with an Alexander led BEF in northern or southern Russia, while perhaps starting the first few Free French forces?


I suspect it depends on what the Axis is doing. If the Germans & Italians are clearly preparing for a kitchen-sink Barb with minimal sub/NAV builds early on and little to no activity in the Med/Middle East, then a raiding build like this is feasible (since you can probbaly afford to do this and build convoys to ensure effective lend-lease at the same time if you have been building convoys since the start of the game).

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 1:37:36 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

OK, now I'm just confused.

As far as I know, no one on this forum is suggesting that convoy points that return to base during the corresponding step at the end of the turn are able to ship resources or build points. I am sure everyone is in agreement on this point.

What we were discussing was returning convoy points to a port during a normal impulse, reorganizing them at the end of that impulse, and then putting them back out to sea during a subsequent impulse, all in the same turn. As a result, these redeployed convoy points would be able to ship resources or build points as required.

As per your posts #480 and #486 it appears you were arguing that this was not possible.

Am I missing something here?


Nope you're not confused you understand perfectly. It has been ruled as a rule ambiguity.




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Post #: 493
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 2:46:41 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I have never wanted the rules to hold your hand on every single tiny possible reading implication in them. If you want rules like that, they will be 3x longer and we would have 3x less players. You have to use basic common sense at times, or this game is quite simply not for you.


Should the CW AI try this build schedule:

S/O 40: Fort/4

N/D 40: PARA, AMPH face-up

J/F 41: MAR, MOT

M/A 41: 3 INF or MIL

and then raid Brest in Jul/Aug 41, hoping to drop the Fort there in Sep/Oct, with Singapore as an alternate destination if you can't clear it of ZoC?

Or is this a little too aggressive when the CW might need to be maximizing economic aid to the Soviets along with an Alexander led BEF in northern or southern Russia, while perhaps starting the first few Free French forces?


You need to give more information before someone can give you a response.

What Scenario?
24.4.1 Missed the Bus ~ The end of the beginning: Jul/Aug 1940 - Jul/Aug 1945
24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945


How much production BP are you generating?
Will there be any left over BP after these builds?
A brief summary of the world situation.


S/O 40:
Fort/4 ~ 3 and 1 (7 BP), 2 and 2 (8 BP), or 4x 1 (8 BP)?

N/D 40:
PARA ~ Corps (5 BP) or division (3 BP)?

AMPH face-up?

J/F 41:
MAR (Corps 5 BP, division 3 BP), MOT (Corps 4 BP, division 2 BP)

M/A 41:
3x INF (Corps 9 BP, 6 BP) or 3x MIL (6 BP)



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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 3:14:08 AM   
paulderynck


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Status: offline 		...about N/D 40

How would you build an Amph face-up without having one in the Construction Pool?




< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/5/2013 7:11:05 AM >

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 1:37:12 PM   
Centuur


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Status: offline 		In my opinion, the building of an Amph should be started by the CW in the first turn of the game. It is so important for the CW to have a invasion possibility on the board. After that first Amph in SO 1939, the rest has to be defensive of course.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 2:42:12 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

...about N/D 40

How would you build an Amph face-up without having one in the Construction Pool?



Using the 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945 scenario he could have started an AMPH early in the war.


But before I could sign off on this plan I would have to know how the CW is doing at sea, what is the Axis doing, and what is the Axis OOB is in Occupied France.

Due to its small army and air force early in the war the CW is not usually prone to an aggressive stance and chooses to build up its forces.

More or less the CW chooses to react to aggression rather than act aggressively.


If the invasion of Brest is successful do you plan to try and hold it or is this just a raid (an in and out)?

You need to know what the Axis OOB is in Occupied France if you plan the Invasion of Europe.

If this is just a raid is it just to keep the Axis off balance or what?


(brian brian you've got our attention you are now in the hot seat continue with your plan.)



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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 3:54:00 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Status: offline 		My studies show the CW has 22 factories (1 each in Melbourne, Australia and Belfast, Northern Ireland; 2 each in Canada and India; and 16 in Great Britain)

In 1939 at full production the 21 CW factories (the .5 production multiplier allows full production with 21 factories) would produce 11 BP.

In 1940 at full production the 22 CW factories (the .75 production multiplier allows full production with 22 factories) would produce 17 BP.



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Post #: 498
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 3:56:13 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

...about N/D 40

How would you build an Amph face-up without having one in the Construction Pool?



Using the 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945 scenario he could have started an AMPH early in the war.


But before I could sign off on this plan I would have to know how the CW is doing at sea, what is the Axis doing, and what is the Axis OOB is in Occupied France.

Due to its small army and air force early in the war the CW is not usually prone to an aggressive stance and chooses to build up its forces.

More or less the CW chooses to react to aggression rather than act aggressively.


If the invasion of Brest is successful do you plan to try and hold it or is this just a raid (an in and out)?

You need to know what the Axis OOB is in Occupied France if you plan the Invasion of Europe.

If this is just a raid is it just to keep the Axis off balance or what?


(brian brian you've got our attention you are now in the hot seat continue with your plan.)



A threath towards something is usually a good idea to make sure the Euroaxis keeps more forces to guard ports in France. To actually execute an invasion into Europe by the CW alone is something totally different. If it succeeds, the question is: how do the Euroaxis respond here. If they are capable of sending a large force against you, I would suggest to leave.
If you got time as the CW (because of Axis units being transported by rail and not able to attack this turn), I would try to replace those expensive units with MIL and INF and see what happens next.


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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/5/2013 4:21:24 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

A threath towards something is usually a good idea to make sure the Euroaxis keeps more forces to guard ports in France. To actually execute an invasion into Europe by the CW alone is something totally different. If it succeeds, the question is: how do the Euroaxis respond here. If they are capable of sending a large force against you, I would suggest to leave.

If you got time as the CW (because of Axis units being transported by rail and not able to attack this turn), I would try to replace those expensive units with MIL and INF and see what happens next.



Yes, You dont want your Operation Sledgehammer (an early Allied plan for a cross-Channel invasion of Europe) to turn into a Operation Jubilee (The Dieppe Raid).

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Post #: 500
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/7/2013 7:00:46 PM   
brian brian

 

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Status: offline 		I would just about always start a CW AMPH in 1939.

It is best to have some threat against the Euro-Axis in 1941, on land. Normally I wouldn't suggest a landing in France, as German units can mostly just walk there from Germany, Paris is a secondary supply source, etc.

But I have been daydreaming of such a raid on Brest to both force an Axis reaction and to hamper any Battle of the Atlantic. If the Axis is going all-in to Russia without any SUB builds at all then the value of that is lessened. If though you are able to grab Brest and leave a fort behind, I would keep troops there and make the Axis dig you out, especially if defensive shore bombardment is in play. Meanwhile they would have to be very worried about maintaining supply to Bordeaux (their only other major port in western France) as well perhaps, as your AMPH might still be in western England.

That was just an example of the type of build lists that might have to be part of an AI; minute game details are somewhat beside the point. Something selected a year in advance....that would probably have to be scripted in advance. And it is a build list that takes advantage of the CW force pool, which has a full PARA unit in 1940 and their first MAR unit in 1941. Add those to a few leg infantry divisions and the AMPH and you can threaten a 2 hex landing with a good chance of success.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/9/2013 3:44:56 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I would just about always start a CW AMPH in 1939.

It is best to have some threat against the Euro-Axis in 1941, on land. Normally I wouldn't suggest a landing in France, as German units can mostly just walk there from Germany, Paris is a secondary supply source, etc.

But I have been daydreaming of such a raid on Brest to both force an Axis reaction and to hamper any Battle of the Atlantic. If the Axis is going all-in to Russia without any SUB builds at all then the value of that is lessened. If though you are able to grab Brest and leave a fort behind, I would keep troops there and make the Axis dig you out, especially if defensive shore bombardment is in play. Meanwhile they would have to be very worried about maintaining supply to Bordeaux (their only other major port in western France) as well perhaps, as your AMPH might still be in western England.

That was just an example of the type of build lists that might have to be part of an AI; minute game details are somewhat beside the point. Something selected a year in advance....that would probably have to be scripted in advance. And it is a build list that takes advantage of the CW force pool, which has a full PARA unit in 1940 and their first MAR unit in 1941. Add those to a few leg infantry divisions and the AMPH and you can threaten a 2 hex landing with a good chance of success.


How is the U-boat war going?

Has the USA entered the war yet?

It would seam that this plan might be useful in Italy.

Have you given thought of taking Vichy possessions on North Africa?

Landing in occupied France is not your only option.



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Post #: 502
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/9/2013 11:22:01 AM   
Centuur


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Status: offline 		And that is exactly why the CW should start building that AMPH in the first turn. Even if it was just sitting in a nice port (say Gibraltar) with a nice INF on it, it is still capable of doing all kind of things, if the Axis isn't careful.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/9/2013 9:58:04 PM   
composer99


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Status: offline 		The "Millennium Annual" (the WiF magazine published around 2000 which, if memory serves, introduced <i>Politics in Flames</i>), which I have referred to before in the context of strategic bombing, recommends that the Allies achieve complete control of the Atlantic.

One of the recommended courses of action to accomplish this objective is tactical raids on the French Atlantic seaboard such as suggested by brian brian.

The benefits are fairly obvious. Undertaken early in the turn, a succesful invasion can disable the German sub fleet. Undertaken later in the turn, disorganized subs that were forced to return to port during combat may be vulnerable to overrun. And if both major ports are seized and remain in Allied hands at the end of a turn, Axis submarines are forced to rebase to minor ports, where they are vulnerable to air attack.

(Of course, brian brian suggests a stronger attack, which if not bottled up by Axis defenders threatens a breakout.)

Incidentally, if the Axis is going for a 'kitchen sink' Barbarossa and makes effectively no offensive action against the Commonwealth, I do not see why in 1941 the CW can't have the lift, land army, and land-based air to launch tactical raids in France and invasions of Sardinia and even Italy.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 1:02:11 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Status: offline 		A CW proposed set up.

24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945

Turn 1 Sep/Oct 1939
The Chinese are at war with the Japanese and have called up their reserves.
The Japanese are at war with China and have called up their reserves.

The Italians are currently a Neutral major power.
The Italians have a larger fleet in the Mediterranean but is currently a Neutral major power.
The Italian Air force has: 4 type 2 FTR, 1 type 2 LND, 1 type 3 LND, 1 type 3 NAV and 4 Pilots.
German and Italian units co-operate if neither is neutral.

The USA is currently a Neutral major power.

The USSR is currently a Neutral major power.

The CW Situation
On the plus side most of our Naval units are built and you should have a set of convoy lines established to have your factories at full production at least until 1940.

On the minus side we need land units, air units, and to keep the Naval gearing limits up.

Germany has a moderate fleet but will mostly be using Land Actions to crush Poland for the first 2 to 3 impulses.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scrap Units
CVP Hawker Osprey, CVP Hawker Nimrod, CVP Gloster Gladiator, and FTR Gloster Gladiator.

The CVP Hawker Osprey and CVP Hawker Nimrod are too weak.

While the CVP Gloster Gladiator vs. Axis land based fighters would not survive.

This leaves 10 possible CVP: 4x Blackburn Baffin (1936), 4x Fairey Swordfish (1937), and 2x Fairey Swordfish (1938) (anti-ship factors: minimum 10 maximum 13)
Lets just assume we get: 2x Blackburn Baffin (1936), 2x Fairey Swordfish (1937), and 1x Fairey Swordfish (1938) (anti-ship factors: 11)

The CW fleets will have to depend on their own land-based fighters for air cover.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Select and Set Up Units

The CW has in reserve 2 tankers.

The CW pre-set up in the [sea box 0]:

From Scapa Flow the ASW sails to Faeroes Gap.

The Americas
2 Tankers (1 in each sea zone) carry 2 Oil resources
From Venezuela > Caribbean Sea > to a USA port and then by rail 1 Oil resource to be saved in Halifax, Canada
From Venezuela > Caribbean Sea > to a USA port and then by rail to production in Toronto, Canada

4 Tankers (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Oil resource
From Venezuela > Caribbean Sea > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Belfast, UK

4 Tankers (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Oil resource
From the minor port of Port of Spain > Mouths of the Amazon > Central Atlantic > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Birmingham (Red), UK

4 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Resource
From the minor port of Georgetown, British Guyana > Mouths of the Amazon > Central Atlantic > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Birmingham (Blue), UK

3 Tankers (1 in each sea zone) carry 1 Oil resource
From the major port of Yarmouth, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Coventry, UK

15 CP (1 in each sea zone) carry 5 Resources (satisfies Food in Flames (Option 29)):
From the major port of Halifax, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Glasgow (Red), UK
From the major port of Halifax, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Glasgow (Blue), UK
From the major port of Halifax, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Hull, UK
From the major port of Halifax, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Leeds, UK
From the major port of Halifax, Canada > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Liverpool, UK


The Far East
5 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Resource
From the minor port of Newcastle, Australia > Tasman Sea > New Zealand Coast > Polynesia > Clarion > Mexican Coast > to production in Montreal, Canada

10 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Resource (satisfies Food in Flames (Option 29))
From the minor port of Newcastle, Australia > Tasman Sea > New Zealand Coast > Polynesia > Austral > Capricorn > Gulf of Panama > Caribbean Sea > East Coast > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in London (Red), UK

1 Resource in Australia by rail to production in Melbourne, Australia

1 Tanker to caries 1 Oil resource from the minor port of Rangoon, Burma > Bay of Bengal > 1 Oil resource to be saved in Delhi, India

9 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Resource (satisfies Food in Flames (Option 29))
From the major port of Calcutta, India > Arabian Sea > Azanian Sea > Mozambique Channel > Cape Basin > Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in London (Blue #1), UK

4 Tankers (1 in each sea zone) caries 2 Oil resources
From Netherlands East Indies (NEI) > South China Sea > Bay of Bengal > 1 Oil resource to be saved in Delhi, India
From Netherlands East Indies (NEI) > South China Sea > Bay of Bengal > 1 Oil resource to be saved in Delhi, India

1 Resource in India by rail to production in Calcutta, India
1 Resource in India by rail to production in Bombay, India

1 Resource in Malaya not used.
1 Resource in Malaya not used.


South Africa
6 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 1 Resource from N'dola North Rhodesia
From the major port of Cape Town, South Africa > Cape Basin > Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in London (Blue #2), UK

6 CP (1 in each sea zone) caries 2 Resources from South Africa (satisfies Food in Flames (Option 29))
From the major port of Cape Town, South Africa > Cape Basin > Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Manchester (Red), UK
From the major port of Cape Town, South Africa > Cape Basin > Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > North Atlantic > Faeroes Gap > to production in Manchester (Blue), UK


The Mediterranean and the Middle East
1 Resource in Cyprus not used.
From Bandar Shah, Persia by rail 1 Oil resource to be saved in Cairo, Egypt


The United Kingdom
1 Resource in Cardiff, UK to production in Newcastle, UK
1 Resource in Coventry, UK to production in Sheffield, UK


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First Impulse
Initiative: the initiative marker is in the Axis +2 box. The Axis starts with the initiative and must take the first impulse.
Last weather modifier: Nil. The die-roll for the first impulse of the game is a ‘4’.
The Arctic zone (Fine)
The North Temperate Zone (Fine)
The South Temperate Zone (Fine)
The Mediterranean zone (Fine)
The north monsoon zone (Fine)
The south monsoon zone (Fine)

The Germans DoW Poland and calls up their reserves.
USA entry action: 20 The Axis declares war on Poland (1 chit and 20% chance of another in the USA GE/IT entry pool)
This impulse is a German surprise impulse against Poland.

If the CW gets the Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV (range 14) the CW can surprise port strike any port west of Königsberg.

Note: in this case the Germans would have only two safe minor ports Königsberg and Memel.
That's a port capacity of 10 ships to place 24 ships.
4x Battleships/Battlecruisers: Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Schlesien, and Schleswig-Holstein;
4x Heavy Cruisers: Admiral Hipper, Blucher, Deutschland, and Graf Spee;
6x Light Cruisers: Emden, Karlsruhe, Köln, Königsberg, Leipzig, and Nürnberg;
1x AMPH;
1x TRS;
2x SUB;
11 CP (which count as 6 ships)

Together the CW and French DoW Germany and call up their reserves.
USA entry action: 25 The CW and France declare war on Germany together (90% chance to remove a chit from the USA GE/IT entry pool)
This impulse is a CW and French surprise impulse against the Germans.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 505
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 6:22:36 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Scrap Units
CVP Hawker Osprey, CVP Hawker Nimrod, CVP Gloster Gladiator, and FTR Gloster Gladiator.

The CVP Hawker Osprey and CVP Hawker Nimrod are too weak.

While the CVP Gloster Gladiator vs. Axis land based fighters would not survive.

This leaves 10 possible CVP: 4x Blackburn Baffin (1936), 4x Fairey Swordfish (1937), and 2x Fairey Swordfish (1938) (anti-ship factors: minimum 10 maximum 13)
Lets just assume we get: 2x Blackburn Baffin (1936), 2x Fairey Swordfish (1937), and 1x Fairey Swordfish (1938) (anti-ship factors: 11)

The CW fleets will have to depend on their own land-based fighters for air cover.


I have not looked at the factors on the specific units you mention, but one thing that is mentioned a lot on the forums (and is true) is that the CW has a problem with CVP size versus CV capacity. If you scrap too many, you can end up with not being able to put many of your new CVPs on the CVs for a year or two. Better to be able to fly a crappy one (or two if using that option) than to have an empty CV.

Also once you draw the initial ones, any that are zero cost do not have to be built since they are in a different force pool than the ones that cost one. They are then great to have around in order to maintian aircraft gearing. Build them for nothing to keep your gearing where you want it and just put them in the Reserve Pool when they arrive.

Personally the only CW CVPs I scrap have 1 A2A and no A2S.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 506
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 11:50:31 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		# of counters [Aircraft type] ([Range] [Air to Air]/[Anti-ship]/[Tactical bombing]/[Strategic bombing]) ([stacking color])

Scrapped
2x Hawker Osprey (3 0/0/0/0) (Light Blue)
2x Hawker Osprey (2 0/1/0/0) (Light Blue)
1x Hawker Osprey (3 1/0/0/0) (Light Blue)

2x Hawker Nimrod (4 2/0/0/0) (Light Blue)
2x Hawker Nimrod (3 1/1/0/0) (Light Blue)
2x Hawker Nimrod (3 2/1/0/0) (Light Blue)

2x Gloster Gladiator (4 3/0/0/0) (Yellow)

Available
2x Blackburn Baffin (2 0/2/0/0) (Light Blue)
2x Blackburn Baffin (2 1/2/0/0) (Light Blue)
2x Fairey Swordfish (2 0/3/0/0) (Yellow)
2x Fairey Swordfish (3 2/2/0/0) (Yellow)
2x Fairey Swordfish (3 1/3/1/0) (Green)



I looked into the CW launching a second impulse surprise port strike against the Italians.

But found 2 things that would hinder its execution:
(1) The Axis +2 control of the initiative.
(2) The weather.

It can easily be done if the Italians do not pay attention and DoW the CW and France and the weather remains good.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 507
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 2:14:46 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Europe map (Notes 1 & 4): [Ship name] ([movement]/[range] [surface attack factor]/[defense]/[anti-aircraft factor])
Aircraft Carriers Home Fleet (attached to Force H) at Malta
5x Aircraft Carriers (anti-aircraft 7): Ark Royal (5/4 1/6/3), Courageous (5/3 1/6/2), Furious (5/3 1/6/2), Argus (4/2 0/9/0), and Hermes (4/2 1/7/0)
0x Battleships/Battlecruisers:
0x Heavy Cruisers:
5x Light Cruisers: Aurora (5/2 2/8/1), Cairo (5/2 1/8/1), Calcutta (5/2 1/8/1), Caledon (5/2 1/8/1), and Calypso (5/2 1/8/1)

Aircraft Carriers Home Fleet (carrier strike force)
Task Force Movement/Range = 4/2
Total surface attack ~ 4 + 0 + 0 + 6 = 10
Total anti-aircraft ~ 7 + 0 + 0 + 5 = 12
Total Ships 10

Force H (cover force) at Malta
0x Aircraft Carriers:
7x Battleships/Battlecruisers: Barham (4/4 6/4/1), Ramillies (4/4 5/4/2), Rodney (4/3 7/2/1), Revenge (4/4 6/4/2), Warspite (4/4 6/3/2), Hood (5/3 7/3/2), and Renown (5/3 6/4/3)
11x Heavy Cruisers: Belfast (6/6 3/6/2), Edinburgh (6/6 3/6/2), Effingham (5/4 2/7/2), Exeter (6/4 3/6/1), Glasgow (6/6 3/6/1), Hawkins (5/4 1/7/1), Newcastle (6/6 2/6/1), Norfolk (6/6 3/6/1), Southampton (6/6 3/6/1), Sheffield (6/6 3/6/2), and York (6/4 2/6/1)
6x Light Cruisers: Ajax (6/5 2/7/1), Arethusa (6/3 2/8/1), Emerald (6/3 2/7/1), and Enterprise (6/5 2/7/1), and Galatea (6/3 1/8/1)

Force H
Task Force Movement/Range = 4/3
Total surface attack ~ 0 + 43 + 28 + 9 = 80
Total anti-aircraft ~ 0 + 13 + 15 + 5 = 33
Total Ships 24

Home Fleet at Scapa Flow
0x Aircraft Carriers:
5x Battleships/Battlecruisers: Nelson (4/3 7/4/2), Resolution (4/4 5/4/1), Royal Oak (4/4 6/4/1), Royal Sovereign (4/4 6/4/1), and Repulse (5/2 5/5/1)
0x Heavy Cruisers:
12x Light Cruisers: Carlisle (5/2 1/8/1), Colombo (5/2 1/8/1), Diomede (5/2 2/8/0), Delhi (5/2 1/8/1), Dragon (5/2 2/8/0), Dunedin (5/2 1/8/0), Capetown (5/2 1/8/0), Caradoc (5/2 1/8/0), Cardiff (5/2 1/8/0), Ceres (5/2 1/8/0), Curlew (5/2 1/8/1), and Penelope (5/2 2/8/1)

Home Fleet
Task Force Movement/Range = 5/2
Total surface attack ~ 0 + 29 + 0 + 15 = 29
Total anti-aircraft ~ 0 + 6 + 0 + 10 = 16
Total Ships 12


Asia/Pacific map (Notes 2 & 5):
Eastern Fleet
2x Aircraft Carriers: Glorious (5/3 1/6/3) and Eagle (4/2 2/6/1)
1x Battleships: Malaya (4/4 6/4/1)
12x Heavy Cruisers: Australia (5/5 3/6/1), Birmingham (6/6 2/6/2), Canberra (5/5 3/6/1), Cornwall (5/5 2/6/2), Devonshire (6/6 3/6/0), Dorsetshire (6/6 3/6/2), Gloucester (6/6 3/6/1), Kent (5/5 2/6/2), Liverpool (6/6 3/6/2), Manchester (6/6 2/6/1), Shropshire (6/6 3/6/2), and Sussex (6/6 3/6/1)
5x Light Cruisers: Adelaide (4/2 1/8/0), Coventry (5/2 1/8/0), Hobart (6/3 2/7/1), Leander (6/5 2/7/1), and Sydney (6/3 2/7/1)

Eastern Fleet
Task Force Movement/Range = 4/2 (without Eagle 5/3)
Total surface attack ~ 3 + 6 + 32 + 8 = 49
Total anti-aircraft ~ 4 + 1 + 18 + 3 = 25
Total Ships 20


America map (Note 6)
Northwest Command
2x Heavy Cruisers (anti-aircraft 2): Berwick (5/5 3/6/1) and Cumberland (5/5 2/6/1)
9x Light Cruisers (anti-aircraft 5): Achilles (6/5 2/7/2), Ajax (6/5 2/7/1), Danae (5/2 2/8/0), Dauntless (5/2 1/8/0), Dispatch (5/2 2/8/0), Durban (5/2 1/8/0), Neptune (6/5 2/7/1), Orion (6/5 2/7/0), and Perth (6/3 2/7/1)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Italians pre-sets up a convoy line from Italy > 1CP in Italian Coast [sea box 0] > 1CP in Eastern Mediterranean Sea [sea box 0] > to supply Libya.

Regia Marina Italiana (the Italian Fleet)
0x Aircraft Carriers:
2x Battleships (anti-aircraft 1): Guilio Cesare (5/2 8/5/0) and Conte di Cavour (5/2 5/5/1)
12 x Heavy Cruisers (anti-aircraft 20): Abruzzi (6/2 2/6/2), Bolzano (6/2 4/6/2), Duca D'Aosta (6/2 3/6/1), E. Di Savoia (6/2 2/6/1), Fiume (6/2 2/5/2), Garibaldi (6/2 3/6/1), Gorizia (6/2 3/5/2), Pola (6/2 3/5/2), San Giorgio (4/3 3/6/1), Trento (6/2 4/6/2), Trieste (6/2 3/6/2), and Zara (6/2 3/5/2)
9x Light Cruisers (anti-aircraft 9): Attendolo (6/2 2/7/1), Bande Nere (6/2 1/8/1), Barbiano (6/2 2/8/1), Cadorna (6/2 2/8/1), Colleoni (6/2 1/8/1), Diaz (6/2 1/8/1), Guissano (6/2 2/8/1), Montecuccoli (6/2 2/7/1), and Taranto (6/2 1/8/1)
2 TRS
3 Submarines
7 CP (4x ships)

Regia Marina Italiana (the Italian Fleet)
Task Force Movement/Range = 5/2
Total surface attack ~ 0 + 1 + 32 + 8 = 62
Total anti-aircraft ~ 0 + 1 + 20 + 9 = 30
Total Ships 32


Second Impulse advance the impulse marker 1 box on the impulse track.
Initiative: Axis die +2.
Last weather modifier: Die roll +1.

The USSR controls Eastern Poland.
USA entry action: 26 USSR controls East Poland (70% chance to remove a chit from the USA GE/IT entry pool)

France does not DoW the Italians. Let the Italians DoW the French if they want to fight in France.
USA entry action: 7. Italy declares war on CW or France or both (70% chance to add a chit to the USA GE/IT entry pool)

The CW DoW the Italians.
USA entry action: 22. CW or France or both declare war on Italy (remove 1 chit and 20% chance of another from the USA entry action Ge/IT pool).

Operation Judgment
Aircraft Carriers Home Fleet (4/2) sails from the major port of Gibraltar > Western Mediterranean Sea > Italian Coast [sea box 3] (cost 2 range 1 movement)
If Regia Marina Italiana (the Italian Fleet) sets up in Genoa, Italy then substitute Aircraft Carriers Home Fleet from the major port of Gibraltar > Western Mediterranean Sea [sea box 4] (cost 1 range).
If Regia Marina Italiana (the Italian Fleet) splits it's forces in more than one port Aircraft Carriers Home Fleet can be split if necessary.

Force H (4/3) sails from the major port of Gibraltar > Western Mediterranean Sea > Italian Coast [sea box 3] (cost 2 range 1 movement).

CV Glorious sails from the major port of Aden, Aden > Red Sea > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > to the major port of Alexandria, Egypt (cost 3 range 2 movement).
CV Eagle sails from the major port of Aden, Aden > Red Sea [sea box 3] (cost 1 range) Eagle can't get into Alexandria or Port Said if they are in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea because of range.

Eastern Fleet sails from the major port of Aden, Aden > Red Sea > Eastern Mediterranean Sea [sea box 4] (cost 2 range 1 movement)




_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 508
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 2:55:04 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		The CW begins play neutral and may only scrap units dating from 1935 or earlier. Until the SO39 production phase (when the CW is active) this means the CW can't scrap any Gladiator CVP or FTR (if memory serves, they are 1936-1937 units).

In addition, the Gladiator CVP are useful in 1939 through the first half of 1940 when the CW has no long-range FTR or stronger CVP on the map. They can reach the 4-box of a sea area (as long as their carrier can) and provide a search bonus due to their range.

So they can keep the Axis honest and deter deployment of Axis NAV units in high boxes (until 1941, unless I am mistaken, the longest-range Axis FTR can reach the 2 box in a naval air mission and the 1 box in a naval air interception assuming it starts adjacent to a hexdot).

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 509
RE: AI for MWiF - Commonwealth - 1/10/2013 3:07:36 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		You are correct of course.

I had a lot to check: submarine combat, port strike, surprise, ship data, sea zones, and etc.

Hawker Osprey 1930 - 1933
Hawker Nimrod 1930 - 1934 and 1936
Gloster Gladiator 1937

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 510
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