RE: Victory at Sea

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Victory at Sea

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RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 4:49:31 PM

aztez

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: medck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I have offered to go back one day but PZB (on past exchanges) doesnt like doing things like that It still confuses me as to why he risked all for a few transports its that more than anything I am struggling to comprehend he must have known that the Marianas and attacks on the Palaus were coming why risk his precious counter attack weapon ah well

Andy

Why on earth would you offer to go back one day? There was no glitch or gamey outcome: he tried to do a sneak attack on you, failed and lost all his carriers. If your carriers hadn't been nearby (or had been out of op points) and he had sunk most of your transports, do you really think he'd be offering to go back one day because you left your vulnerable ships uncovered? After the slapping around the allies have gotten in this AAR, Feb 1944 is a time when the allies can start counting on things going their way. I think it's a bit cheap for the japanese players to throw in the towel after rampaging around and having their fun for a few years and then giving up. There are victory conditions and with 18 months to go, it might still be hard for you to acheive them as he controls India and China. Many people have commented on how everything in the first year goes the Japanese way and everything pretty much goes the allies' way in 1944-5 (although in the Dude-Zeta 'Hirohito' AAR the Japanese did ambush a bunch of US CV's off the coast of Korea in late 1945...)

I second this "motion". You should not replay it since he did took an gamble and paid for it.

As said it seems to be that once allied player will get strong enough to revenge things the Japanese players do throw towel quite easily.

(in reply to duckenf)

Post #: 481

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 6:50:24 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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If we were to go on I question if this would make an Indian Adventure practical !!!!

I reckon I would need 6 ish Divisions to take out Bombay I am looking around to see if Icould find that kind of firepower (and more importantly shipping) if I had to.

The allies now have about 4 Inf Divisons in Iraq and 6 Armoured Bns so enough reinforicing troops are waiting that it may be possible.......

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 482

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 6:51:55 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

I will be disappointed if PzB resigns. Three of us took a lot as Allies and he never offered me a redo when he took a chance and it panned out. You now have a chance to win but it is not a forgone conclusion. At least you do not have to worry so much about KB roaming about. Hmmm, wonder if an assault on India would be possible now? He still has a lot of LBA and he has trained his pilots well.

_____________________________

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 483

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 7:04:50 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Re India.

I have 2nd Aus Cav Div/ Darwin Defence Bde and 30th Inf Bde ready for action now plus 2 Armoured Regts in north Australia and about a brigade of Dutch troops

I could probably divert 1st and 9th Aus Divs after they refit to this operation.

I will have enough PP's in about 15 days to release 5th Aus Div.

Now thats 4 Divisons I could probably free a NZ Div in about 30 days and transfer the Canadian Div to this operation as well.

That gives me 6 CW Divs add in Aus 1 Corps HQ and ABDA HQ and it suddenly looks feasible. I would need to use AP's AK's as I couldnt spare the assault trasnports to this invasion but thats not such an issue in close quarters. I could release Wasp and Formidable plus perhaps 1 Essex and a couple of old BB's for this operation and several CVE's

If we continue I will think about this a little more

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 484

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 7:48:07 PM

HarryM

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Joined: 7/13/2004
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Congratulations! I hope PZB doesn't surrender, nice to see this one go the distance.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 485

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 8:17:33 PM

asdicus

Posts: 260
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Surrey,UK
Status: offline

Well done on your victory andy - the allies(and all their fans among the aar watchers) have been waiting a long time for this result against his carriers. The allied players have been on the back foot for years and they are well overdue for some payback.

I am both amazed and dismayed you have offered your opponent the chance to redo the turn. PBM players invest a vast amount of time in these games and the unwritten rule is that you must be able to take bad days as well as good days. Far too often I see japanese players in aar games running riot for the first 12 months and then after one bad defeat they throw their hand up and quit. Surely the challenge for a japanese player in the later war period is to score small sucesses against the odds - just like the japanese had to do in the real war ?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 486

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 8:25:56 PM

marky

Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The situation the day before its weird he seems to have way overconcentrated KB into to few TF's I count 4 CV's and 2 CVLs at least in one TF and 4 CV's 1 CVL and 1 CS in another I dont knwo Japanese co ordination but only 130 Zekes on CAP from 8 CV's seems light.

My CAP was set at 70% FYI and 1 CV Fighter Sqn was on night CAP as well as 2 CVL's/ CVE's and Formidables Sqn as well

lol. well if theres 2 things a carrier group can draw its subs and bombers. how did you change the base flags?

_____________________________

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 487

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 8:28:28 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Thanks for the kind words I just really dont want the game to end had it happend at Saipan/ the Palaus or anywhere else where it matters I wouldnt have offered but this was a nonsense raid which had no purpose.

I just dont understand why he did it the bases have already fallen its crazy a moment of madness I guess also the way he configured his TF's 2 TF's only was just weird and with such an underpowered CAP.

Anyway I really dont think he will do it he hates re doing turns but I do want the game to go on.

Lets see what happens I suspect he will take a few days then we will either go on or the game will die as I cannot see another Japanese player taking it on now.

Andy

(in reply to asdicus)

Post #: 488

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 8:29:25 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Not sure Marky I think it was one of the mods from a while back

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 489

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/18/2006 8:36:04 PM

FeurerKrieg

Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
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No way can it die, somebody will step up and take over if PzB quits.

I agree, no do-over. As a Jap player I full realize the good days are limited, and the bad days are just over the horizon. If you take gambles you have to be ready for the consequences.

_____________________________

Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 490

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/19/2006 5:38:18 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

We move on.

Unfortunately I have a small problem. San Jacinto took a Judy on the deck and will need some yard time. The picture below tells the rest of the story.

I would love to pursue but dont have the units

Its annoying but withdrawing is all I have.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to FeurerKrieg)

Post #: 491

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/19/2006 6:44:29 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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My lack of follow up hurt me but without bullets there was no point in putting my TF's in harms way.

My CVL's managed to hit kongo but I think thats it

I am out of bullets beans and fuel so I am pulling back for Hydra 5 (I have decided on 5 before 3 or 4 because of this battle

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/14/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on IND IV Corps, at 22,3

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 18

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 53
N1K1-J George x 54
D4Y Judy x 36
B6N Jill x 26
G4M2 Betty x 24
P1Y Frances x 52
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 3
Ki-21 Sally x 24
Ki-48 Lily x 32

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 156

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
20 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
9 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
23 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
9 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
54 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
20 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
19 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
9 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
8 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
12 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
7 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 135
P1Y Frances x 76

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 100

Aircraft Attacking:
45 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
42 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
40 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
16 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
9 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
11 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
12 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
10 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Lautem , at 33,78

Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 12
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 25
P-40N Warhawk x 12
P-38J Lightning x 18
F-5A Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 41

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 2 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 13
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
8 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
11 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
10 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
2 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 26
B-24J Liberator x 56

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Admiralty Islands , at 58,84

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 14
B-25J Mitchell x 58
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 35

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 87

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 29
TBM Avenger x 42

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 17 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Mikuma
DD Niizuki

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 8

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 5
TBM Avenger x 7

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,86

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 2
P-38J Lightning x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-327
LCT LCT-323

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 95

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 21

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 129

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 12 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,86

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 2

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 7
Spitfire VIII x 3
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-38J Lightning x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 129

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Dagua at 51,81

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 13

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 31
Spitfire VIII x 5
Kittyhawk III x 9
P-40N Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 8 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40N Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
AP Koolama
AP Empire Tamar

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 35,47

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 19
PC Shonan Maru #2
PC Kyo Maru #7
PC Kanju
PC Etoforu

Allied Ships
SS Muskallunge

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 492

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/19/2006 9:54:22 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Very quiet turn I have started to shift damaged ships back to Brisbane for repair a couple of LST's DD's all light units. 18 ships damaged in total. (West Coast and PH yards are full at mo)

Shropshire is heading for West Coast

2 USN CL's got handed back to operational control from West Coast yards.

My lack of losses in cruisers so far added to a reasonable supply of new Baltimore and Brooklyn class ships means I now have enough to cover my TF's.

With the reduction in threat from PZB's Carriers I will be detaching 2 CV's and 2 CVL's back to West Coast for refit.

The other 7 CV's/ 7 CVL's and 20+ CVE's will be enough to cover the rest of Hydra

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 493

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/19/2006 10:02:05 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK Guys I have a choice of which operation to go for next I am seeking opinions

Hydra 3 against Sarmi on NW Coast of NG or Hydra 5 against Satewal

Satewal is a zero SPS atol but is lightly defended Sarmi is more substantial I will do both I am just not sure which way to go.

I had 2 Marine Divs allocated for Hydra 5 but I wont need them so I am going to use only 1st Cav Div and allocate the 2 Marine Divs to Hydra 6 instead pull the Canadian Divison out of Hydra 6 and send it to Aus for operation Sledgehammer (the assault invasion of Bombay/Karachi) that I am now considering.

Anyway I am looking for thoughts 3 (Sarmi) then 4
or 5 (Satewal) then 6 (Woleia)

Whatcha think

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 494

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/19/2006 11:46:00 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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If you do 5 (Satewal) then 6, what type of LBA do you have to cover it?? PzB is wounded, but a wounded animal is the most dangerous.

Going for 3 (Sarmi) is the safe way.

I hope that you strongly consider Sledgehammer. It will divert a significant part of your forces for about 2 months. But, it will be interesting to see how re-taking Karachi will effect the backlog of re-enforcements due there. Plus, I wonder what he had left to garrison India against this eventuality.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 495

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/20/2006 12:13:28 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Mussau Island is 85% to lvl 2 its the only base I will have in range to cover Hydra 5 on balance doing the last turn I have decided to do Sarmi at least next then play it by ear.

My resoning is the further up NG I get the more that PZB has to cover in the interior lets not forget I get a Para DIVISION soon that gives him all sorts of problems the more I keep up the pressure the more troops he has to divert from rear areas like India.

Where I am on this is I am seriously considering Sledgehammer but if I do it its a 6 Divisional Assault but make no mistake its more like a 4 month diversion and its the time that I more concerned about.

In the meantine 9th US Corps started to load onto 300 transports at Rabaul today
4th Aus Div
6th Aus Div
1st NZ Cav Bde
1 x BF
3 x SEabees
2 x Armoured Regts

Aitape is at 2 15% I am hoping to give close air support from there but I WONT wait for it. 2 Carriers and 1 CVL are higher that 10% sys and have been sent to Pearl. I will bring in P38J's to Aitape to LRCAP the invasion force as well as 7 CV/CVL's giving close air support and a 4 BB SCTF/ Bombardment TF to cover the incasion as well as strong DD LSTF's

Andy

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 496

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/20/2006 12:21:50 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

And actually as both Bombay and Karachi are both city hexes with lvl 9 forts and at least 1 - 2 Divisons in them im not sure 6 Divs is enough.

Actually the more that I consider it the less convinced I am its possible which means land somewhere else and then attack which means a long campagn that is difficult to win.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 497

Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 12:37:14 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK all you budding allied strategists out there see if you can model an Indian Campaign that would work.

You will have ABDA HQ 4 Aus Divs/ 1 NZ Div and 1 Can Div plus a couple of Bdes and perhaps 2 Aus Armoured Regts (say 2000 AP)

A few base forces, aviation regts etc a few Fighter and Bomber Gps mostly Australian/ NZ Dutch and Chinese

All of this will be loaded on AK's and AP's as assault transport cannot be spared and will be screened by 2 - 3 CV's plus say 4 or 5 CVE's and a few old BB's and CA's this will most definitely be 2nd rate equipment.

Can anyone offer a plan with that force that could get ashore and take either karachi or Bombay.

Happy to consider any plans that have a chance of success !!!!

I am pretty sure Karachi/Bombay is impossibel but that other bases are takeable. (This rule about UK troops only appearing at karachi or Bombay is bullshit it should be any port on the Indian West Coast)

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 498

RE: Victory at Sea - 3/20/2006 12:51:50 AM

marky

Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

hmm. i cant remember where satawal is no matter how hard i look i cant find it. go for Hydra 3 and cancel sledgehammer as itll just be a waste of troops that can be used elsewhere. that is if u want to end the war asap. u could try an end run to kendari and use it as a forward base maybe.

or maybe its just me

but DONT underestimate your enemy!

show no mercy!

_____________________________

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 499

RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 12:53:29 AM

marky

Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK all you budding allied strategists out there see if you can model an Indian Campaign that would work.

You will have ABDA HQ 4 Aus Divs/ 1 NZ Div and 1 Can Div plus a couple of Bdes and perhaps 2 Aus Armoured Regts (say 2000 AP)

A few base forces, aviation regts etc a few Fighter and Bomber Gps mostly Australian/ NZ Dutch and Chinese

All of this will be loaded on AK's and AP's as assault transport cannot be spared and will be screened by 2 - 3 CV's plus say 4 or 5 CVE's and a few old BB's and CA's this will most definitely be 2nd rate equipment.

Can anyone offer a plan with that force that could get ashore and take either karachi or Bombay.

Happy to consider any plans that have a chance of success !!!!

I am pretty sure Karachi/Bombay is impossibel but that other bases are takeable. (This rule about UK troops only appearing at karachi or Bombay is bullshit it should be any port on the Indian West Coast)

Andy

Theater Of Ops screenshot for india please?

_____________________________

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 500

RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:02:35 AM

duckenf

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK all you budding allied strategists out there see if you can model an Indian Campaign that would work.
Andy

I'd suggest two things -- first find where the remnants of KB have gone and see if you can hit that port while they refit/repair. 3-4 US CVs should be enough to provide both aircover for a Death Star and a strike force to attack his ships in port. You slapped him hard, but as you pointed out, you didn't have the op points to really finish the job.

I think rolling up NG and the vicinity would be the best option at the moment. (A) Hydra has been an initial amazing success, so complete it; (B) you get some good bases that extends his perimeter and forces him to put forces to oppose you -- taking them from Asia/India, (C) you keep up the pressure on the remnants of his navy which you need to finish off to give you complete naval supremacy.

As for SLEDGEHAMMER, India ia very far from your base of operations. I'd say that getting some nearby bases would probably help a lot. That suggests a longer campaign. I'd think Ceylon would make a good place -- you can isolate the island and take it and it has good facilities. With your air force you should be able to protect it and getting supplies there is a whole lot easier than getting them to Karachi or Bombay. Plus you can then threaten southern India or Burma/Malaysia which would divert resources from Karachi and Bombay for when you decide to strike them. I suppose it would also serve as a good base for 4E bombers. Not sure whether the Adaman islands would work as a secondary base to provide early warning, control of seas support, but you do need to string something together otherwise your supply lines are dangerously long.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 501

RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:05:55 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

As requested

Attachment (1)

(in reply to marky)

Post #: 502

RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:06:57 AM

Andy Mac

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I am pretty much in the not worht the hassle camp and a straight assault is better but I am happy to be convinced otherwise

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:32:00 AM

duckenf

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I'd be in favor of a slower approach up through NG/DEI/Malaysia in the first instance. No need to rush back to India when you can reduce it to rubble with long-range bombers. But just imagine what you could do with paratroopers in Colombo ir Trimcomalee. A slow build up through southern India in mid-1945 could really swing a lot of points your way in the later stages of the game and probably make things difficult for his forces in Burma/Malaysia/Thailand/Vietnam as well. But something for much later, I would say.

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:48:42 AM

Andy Mac

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I am not willing at this precise moment to go head to head with all of PZB's Georges/ Tonies/ Tojo's/ Jacks.

I thought about it but with 2 CV's down for refit its just not worth the grief I would need to delay my amphib ops and place my carriers in harms way I would like to finish them off but I will leave it to subs.

What about a 6 Divisonal assault on Singapore direct that may work !!!!

From there his oil pipeline will be closed.

Lots of options have opened up now

Andy

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 1:50:52 AM

Andy Mac

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But 1st things 1st finish off Hydra 3 and 4.

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 2:06:27 AM

duckenf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

But 1st things 1st finish off Hydra 3 and 4.

Yes, Hydra has been a smashing success. If you have the chance to get to Singapore, then definitely take it; but I think you are starting to get into the stage where the Allies can use their 4E to completely smash resistance before the troops go in. That should be Singapore's fate.

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 3:45:25 AM

timtom

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IMO, as long as John enjoys the advantage of interior lines, Sledgehammer should stay on the shelf. However if you put yourself astride his LoC from Japan, I think the operation is in the realm of the possible - although I think you'll need more muscle than the above, particularly airpower.

Consider that Combined Fleet won't be able to intervene effectively for the next 4-6 months (?). If you want to jump outside your LBA umbrella (ie the Marianas), you should do so ASAP, IMO. Holding the Marianas not only provides a conveniantly situated set of AF's for your just-over-the-horizon B-29's, but also lays the sealanes around Japan wide open for CV raids, which in turn rather complicates John's continued defense of the PI/SRA - indeed anywhere that depends on supply/reinforcement by sea from Japan.

But don't get cocky - you're yet to engage his main ground- and LBA-forces.

< Message edited by timtom -- 3/20/2006 4:50:42 PM >

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 9:33:33 AM

frank1970

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Andy, I am quite sure he didn�t want to get your transports but your carriers. He really wanted you to use up your airpoints and then strike you hard. I do not think PzB used all his force for little. He saw his chance he tried to use it and he failed. You were lucky your planes hadn�t attacked more Transport TFs and he was lucky you had attacked so many else all his carriers would be history.

If you really want to try India you have to take Sri Lanka first. From there you could use your LBA to weaken his forces before you land in India.

But now, with his carriers gone for a while take islands near Japan (Mariannas?). Clear your way eventually, so taking Marcus and Wake back might not be so useless cause it gives you unreconed ways of approach.PzB will then have to pull forces away from his front bases to protect Japan.

As a last point:
PzB doesn�t need his carriers any more. You have to come into his airumbrella as you want to take his bases. You still have to cover your TransortTFs because of longrange bombers and subs.
He only lost the possibility to retake bases and start counterinvasions.

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RE: Operation Sledgehammer - A Challenge - 3/20/2006 10:21:39 AM

soeren01

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The question is, how do you want to win this game ?
You have to either sink his high value ships, get back high value cities from him or bomb his homeland.
With 6 Divs availible you could try to get into B17/B29 range of Tokyo as fast as possible. His Fleet is beaten (at least for the moment). You could go Wake, Marcus I. , Iwo Jima, which would be good pointwise.
Or you go Tricolomee/Columbo, Singapore, forcing him to spread his assets. how many ships does he has left ? Does he have enough forces to defend on two fronts ?

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