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RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so

 
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RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 10:59:03 PM   
marovici

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/12/2005
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I'm sorry, somebody catch me up here. What's the issue here? I hate to see one of the long-running PBEMs go south.

-F-


PzB's kami high altitude attacks. I don't think Andy is talking about quitting, right?

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 1171
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 11:09:29 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Oh god no I am pissed off and slightly insane after watching a John Wayne film I hadnt seen before but I aint quitting just expect the single most asterisk filled post in history when one of those Zekes hits a carrier no matter where you are in the world you will hear my howl of rage !!!

Re Java Chez I am not sure I am looking at it now as I type this.

My intel is limited but it looks to be well garrisoned.

I am really coming back to an attack up the corridor West of Borneo after I take Banja.

I will take a closer look at java via recon over the next few turns and make a final decision then.

I think provisoinally while I wait for my refitted carriers I will take Pomala, Maccasaer, Pinrang and other lvl 1 bases in the area to broaden my options for basing B25's in various lvl 4 AF's and help give me more depth these operations in total will take the balance of 6th Army (primarily 5th Amphib Corps and Army Reserve)

I am still Holding 1st Aus Army in reserve for Malaya so that would leave about 6 Divs of the three uncommitted Corps of 8th Army available for offensive operations.

Andy

(in reply to marovici)
Post #: 1172
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 11:22:32 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Java




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1173
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 11:51:11 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		Well, fully developed bases and 3 possible divisions would make it difficult. It could be done but would have to be a major operation.

Your operation up the west coast of Borneo will have the effect of cutting Java off from the Japanese war effort and should be a much easier road. It does mean operating in confined waters with the enemy left, right and in front (Charge of the Light Brigade, anyone?).

His forces in Java can supply themselves assuming that the resource centers are operational. So leaving them means a significant air threat to your supply lines along Borneo. Kamis are sure to operate from there and that's a lot of airfields to keep suppressed. You'll need to take care of that (which I'm sure you will) but otherwise you could leave Java alone once the airfields and air forces are suppressed. If he does have significant land forces there, bypassing them means they won't die off but they won't hurt you either.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1174
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 11:57:10 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Aye more threat to my supply lines means more CVE's tied up.

I need to think this through

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 1175
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/23/2006 12:48:03 AM   
jrlans


Posts: 180
Joined: 8/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		What about bombing the reasource centers there. Once Java is isolated bombing resource centers slowly starves the troops. As we all know it is not worth it to rebuild resource centers for supply purposess.  That would force him to abadon (or kami) the AC there and try to evacuate the troops or let them starve.  Also with enough air support most of those bases could be closed with bombardments as well. Though with some risk to the surface ships from AC and mines. 

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1176
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/23/2006 1:27:40 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hmmm its possible I guess this is where my inexperience playing the Japanese comes back to bite me.

I dont have a feel for how much supply PZB could have stockpiled on Java.

I think I need to exploit the enforced admin pause and take out a few rear area bases.

Accordingly my primary targets are Noemfoor, Amboina and Makasser

5th Amphib Corps will provide the troops in 4 Battle Groups

1st BG will be used to reinforce Noemfoor with a fresh Division probably the 6th from Wasile.

I will then form 3 Division sized BG's

2nd BG will consist of 1 Bde each from the 1st Marine Div and 24th Inf Div plus an attached Armoured Regt and will assault Amboina.

3rd BG same composition will assault Makasser.

4th BG same composition will stay in reserve and go where its needed and if not needed will form the basis of FT raiding TF's to back up 11th Airborne

I prefer to fight Divisions as Divisions and not split into small columns in this way but needs must I need to spread the marine combat engineers about

(in reply to jrlans)
Post #: 1177
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/23/2006 3:24:16 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Andy,
At this point in the game, the Allies have superior air power and naval power. All planning should encompass using this advantage to meet your objectives.
I see Java as being a place that I would avoid invading. He has an unknown amount of supply there, plus he could send LCU's from Sumatra over to Batavia. Any reinforcements of Borneo has to come by either sea or air transport - into your areas of advantage. I might take Bali and again a base off the coast of Palembang eventually. I would not want to get tied down to a protracted land combat until you get to Malaya.
Stay mobile and be like Ali - Move like a butterfly, sting like a bee!!


_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1178
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 9:03:40 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

A couple of minor points with that 1275psi I have no issue with the Kamikaze threat or the fact that I may lose carriers it is as expected but I find this particular Tactic to be an exploit of the worst kind and it sticks in my craw because of that.

Ignore the fact that the only defence I will have is stronger screens for my TF's which I cannot do because I am short of CA's and CLs (I toook this game on knowing this so I cannot use this defence) and look at why he is relying on this 'tactic'.

PZB has not made a major attack on my fleet at any point after I have dispersed he has always attacked me when I have been concentrating on destroying his airforce.

Off the Marianas the whole point was to kill off his trained pilots (it worked to well and my 600 reserve Hellcats were insufficient) that was why I sent my carriers in en masse BEFORE my transports were in harms way with extra fighter loaded it was a CAP trap and IT WORKED he fell for it.

So he is now using this bullshit exploit because he wanted to hit my fleet when it was in trap mode.

As I have pointed out many times had he waited until I had my 1st wave unloading and my fleet had been forced to seperate to different hexes and tasks (GSupport requires carrier TF's to be in different hexes, Interdiction of reinforcements, guarding for KB and surface TF's, LR Capping the invasion hex and bombardment TF's etc etc) then he would had the fight he sought and my UBER CAP would not have been nearly as strong but he wasted 1,000's of trained pilots attacking an unshaken USN on the open Ocean sorry that is NOT my fault.

Answer me this how many times did Kamis penetrate a CAP when the USN was on its own and not multi tasking ?

How many carriers or ships were hit in open ocean by Kamis when not covering a landing force ?

I dont know these answers but I suspect none so PZB is using this 'tactic' because he got impatient and fell for a trap designed to cripple his AF.

Sorry I find this to be unconscionable.

Is UBER CAP to strong absoulutely is this 'tactic' the correct way to deal with it absolutely NOT.

In case there is any doubt over this I am FUMING over this issue and would have walked away from any other game over this issue but this game is to far down the line to do that but FYI it was a close run thing for me.

Oh and BTW lets not forget what is it 2 or 3 Carrier damaged/sank by Kamis already in this game ok they were CVE's but they are carriers


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/23/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 34,52

Japanese Ships
AK Teisen Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Queenfish

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 117
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 69
B7A Grace x 35
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 36
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 72

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 87

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
36 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
14 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B7A Grace bombing at 1000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Lautem , at 33,78


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 21


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Hurricane II x 7
Kittyhawk III x 6
B-24J Liberator x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 2 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed


Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 37

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 11
PB4Y Liberator x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed


Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 3
B-24J Liberator x 9


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 30
P-40N Warhawk x 19
B-25J Mitchell x 80
PB4Y Liberator x 8


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 49

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Manokwari , at 44,75


Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6


No Allied losses

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 26
A-20G Havoc x 61
B-25J Mitchell x 34
B-24J Liberator x 38


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 131

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
26 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
20 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 5
Spitfire VIII x 6
A-20G Havoc x 11


No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 32


No Allied losses

Runway hits 43

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 54


No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

Aircraft Attacking:
54 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 12
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 23
B-24J Liberator x 56


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Airbase hits 9
Runway hits 52

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
23 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 19

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 2
B-24J Liberator x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F-5C Lightning: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st USMC Arm Amphib Battalion, at 32,62

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 22

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st USMC Arm Amphib Battalion, at 32,62

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 15

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 18th/A Division, at 52,81


Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amboina , at 39,73


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 5


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 6


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 11
TBM Avenger x 17


No Allied losses

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 23451 troops, 141 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 457

Defending force 22893 troops, 47 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 503


Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 32,62

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7645 troops, 0 guns, 396 vehicles, Assault Value = 231

Defending force 10379 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 209

Allied max assault: 380 - adjusted assault: 116

Japanese max defense: 140 - adjusted defense: 41

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
292 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 11


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1937 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 260

Defending force 7284 troops, 62 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 165



havent the time to read everything on the topic-but the big thing that sticks out is you ask is how many times did the kamis penetrate the CAp when the fleet was not multi tasking
You believe none
Sorry -it happened almost daily -especially off okiwana -and the CV raids on home islands I believe
I have just finished reading a crew mans experience on HMAS Shorpshire at Leyte and lingayen gulf -kamis and for that matter convential a/c attacks penetrated on a daily basis, again and again..despite CV CAP especially set to counter them.
how many destroyers were hit on radar and picket duties in the last year of the war -Im not sure of the actual numbers -but I believe it passed 60 odd.
Are you going to quit if PZB hits 60 of your DDs?

No offense, love reading the AAR -but I personally think trying to stick to a historical timetable in this game especially is really the root cause of so many of your frustrations.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1179
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 9:22:06 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		ok
now Ive read all the posts -I can see why you think its an exploit.
fair enough
But just how would any one propose a way for the japanese player to launch kamis with the knowledge that at least some would get through?

If im going to "spend" a daita in convential attack -I know at the moment I will get little or no return.
If I spend a daitai in Kami attack at normal altitude -no return iether (when in real life there was a very substantial "return")
If I spend a daitai in "bull crap" altitude attack at the moment -I get a small return , surely a more appealing "purchase" -and one at least allowing more historical results.

Id be rapt if some one can get around this impasse.
It might be an exploit -but by late 44, 45, if we say "im not playing against that", please tell me why a japanese player would even bother with airplanes in 44?

Its a tricky one aint it.
If you suffer less than 6 CV, 4 or 5 CVe, 60 DDs half a dozen CAs hit by kamis trying to penetrate the inner defences -then you will have got of very lightly, because thats what it cost in real life



(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 1180
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 9:40:19 AM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi


Its a tricky one aint it.
If you suffer less than 6 CV, 4 or 5 CVe, 60 DDs half a dozen CAs hit by kamis trying to penetrate the inner defences -then you will have got of very lightly, because thats what it cost in real life






Where do you get these figures? What I have read Kami's where not that effective againts CV's??? I mean none of the US fleet CV's sunk due to Kami's to my knowledge. I think 1 was "seriously" hit if I remember correctly.

Anyway. A lot of tempting targets for you Andy. Whatever you do use your LBA bombers to maxium advantage!

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 1181
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 9:46:33 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		did not claim that many sunk - lots hit though.
Crikey, seem to remember some British Cv being hit several times -and simply sweeping the decks basically to resume ops 15 minutes later.

Then again there was the franklin...........

have to chase up the facts, but just what PZB posted was a good clue (nothing like a real life example to send a shiver up your spine hey?)

I do remember reading of a DD on picket duty so sick of being attacked that it actually put out a sign - CVs that way....

(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 1182
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 10:34:24 AM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		Go for Java, if for nothing else then just for purely sentimental reasons

The Third Battle of Java, we will win this one'!

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 1183
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 11:15:44 AM   
duckenf

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		As your supply lines are being pounded and the new Kami tactics are worrying you, I think you might want to consider "cleaning up" some of the more troublesome rear areas where large airfields exist. Maybe just the creation of a "clean-up force" that goes around taking bases along your supply lines/behind your main line would be an efficient use of one corps while you're looking elsewhere.

Part of the problem you seem to be facing with some of your covoys is thatt hey have to steam past a row of Japanese bases with planes on them. Since you've activated the Kamis (a bad decision IMHO), you have to live with what they can do -- although I do agree that the high-level attacks are a cheap exploit.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1184
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 3:36:38 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		3rd Java battle is an option but I am not sure yet if thats the way to go recon 1st.

Medck yup thats the plan I am reviewing options to have 1 stong reaction force and 2 or 3 small forces to go round captring bases and cleaning up the rear area.

1275 as I said I have no problem with a Kami threat or even taking hits I just object to the mechanism used and dont like the control it gives.

However no matter how many ships are hit I will go on I really dont think PZB is going to like in any way shape or form the tactics I am going to use to counter this.

He doesnt like airborne and FT invasions well he is about to face lots of them as I inch forward under a cloud of LBA it is unstoppable and for the Japanese impossible to stop also its boring as hell and I know it pisses PZB off but if thats what I gotta do thats what will happen.

Re keeping to historical timetable up until the Marianas I was ahead of history the US really did move this fast if anything I am going a lot slower than happened in RL and thats fine but the game will end in 12 months leaving the job unfinished and I would hate for that to be the case.

(in reply to duckenf)
Post #: 1185
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 6:30:58 PM   
Wolfie1

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2004
From: Blackpool, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi
I do remember reading of a DD on picket duty so sick of being attacked that it actually put out a sign - CVs that way....


I remember reading that story, can anyone remember more details?

_____________________________




Teamwork is essential - it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.....

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 1186
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 6:56:38 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie1

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi
I do remember reading of a DD on picket duty so sick of being attacked that it actually put out a sign - CVs that way....


I remember reading that story, can anyone remember more details?



Were the Jap pilots able to read English??

(in reply to Wolfie1)
Post #: 1187
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 8:22:34 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		LOL Castor ! Yeah I'd love a reference for this story ;)

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1188
RE: A new Plan - 8/23/2006 8:52:33 PM   
jrlans


Posts: 180
Joined: 8/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		As for Java I would definatly isolate it and start bombing resource centers asap; even if you dont plan on invading.  This tactic would throw him off gaurd and require him to either leave his troops to slowly rot or supply them by barge which is voulnerable to DD/PT interception.  If you do decide to go forward with Java then try to figure out where his HQs are stationed (if there are any) and ruthlessly and relentlessly bomb and bombard that spot. As the island losses supply all exess supplies with be drawn to the HQ location for prompt destruction by you.  Its been my experience the best way to find out where the supply horde is, is by bombing with a set # of AC on port or airfield attack and then recording the supply hits. The more supply in a base the more possible hits you will get. Also look for an abnormaly high troop count compared to guns that indicates the presences of lots of support troops. It isnt a science but it seems to helps some. Lastly, drop a small contigent of paratroops in to probe the defences, the combat screen will tell you the rest (its a little gamey though as dead troops would have a tough time reporting back).

As for ny59giants comments i would invade north Java first to cut off reinforcements from Sumatra.  Keep a screening force at the invasion site and the bases near it and he shouldnt be able to get barges thru. Something as small as 6 Pts could turn back barges so it wouldnt require a huge investment of naval power to do. As long as you control the straits with airpower it will be tough to get anything bigger than a barge into the Java Sea.


< Message edited by jrlans -- 8/23/2006 8:58:59 PM >

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1189
RE: A new Plan - 8/24/2006 3:15:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I will certainly do the recon bit but I am still not convinced of a Java invasion.

I am going to position for a few recons and see what is out there.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/24/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Amador
AK Alhena
AP George F. Elliot

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 16
H8K Emily x 9

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged
H8K Emily: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied Ships
AP George F. Elliot
DE Whitman
AK Memphis City
AK Cheleb
AK Ascella
DE Harold C. Thomas
AO Saugatuck

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 6

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
AO Saugatuck
AP Wayne, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage
LCI(G) LCI(G)-77,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 94
J2M Jack x 48
G4M2 Betty x 25
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 143
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 3

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 15
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 211

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
11 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
48 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
43 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
43 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
6 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
4 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
4 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 353
D4Y Judy x 66
B6N Jill x 70
B7A Grace x 63
G4M2 Betty x 23
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 36
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 71

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported

Airbase hits 37
Airbase supply hits 10
Runway hits 363

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
32 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
26 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
16 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
17 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B7A Grace bombing at 1000 feet
4 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
8 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
9 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
9 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
48 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
48 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
27 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
21 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
10 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amboina , at 39,73

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Hurricane II x 7
B-24J Liberator x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
B-24J Liberator x 11


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 9 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 6
Kittyhawk I x 10
Kittyhawk III x 10
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 16
Beaufort V-IX x 14
F-5C Lightning x 7
A-20G Havoc x 14
B-25J Mitchell x 14
PB4Y Liberator x 10
B-24J Liberator x 132


Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 194

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
5 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 strafing at 100 feet
24 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
8 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 strafing at 100 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 24
P-40N Warhawk x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 87
PB4Y Liberator x 3


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 47

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
21 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
16 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Manokwari , at 44,75

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 22
A-20G Havoc x 61
B-25J Mitchell x 61
B-24J Liberator x 47


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 107

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
26 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
25 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
15 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 6
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 35


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 41

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 30


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 36

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 23
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 21
B-24J Liberator x 52


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 123

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
20 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 711th USA Tank Battalion, at 33,62

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 22

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
44 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 711th USA Tank Battalion, at 33,62

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 20

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 3

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 8th Ind. Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Kittyhawk III x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 12
F-5C Lightning x 1


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 12
P1Y Frances x 15

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 6 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DE Lamons
AK Benjamin Carpenter, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
SC SC-631

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Morotai , at 43,68


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 5


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 3
P1Y Frances x 11

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged


Allied Ships
DE Lamons, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
DE Hilbert

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 23630 troops, 142 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 477

Defending force 22653 troops, 44 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 497


Japanese ground losses:
128 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 33,62

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7402 troops, 0 guns, 379 vehicles, Assault Value = 220

Defending force 7451 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 152

Allied max assault: 284 - adjusted assault: 84

Japanese max defense: 103 - adjusted defense: 41

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
163 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 6


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1929 troops, 18 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 259

Defending force 7304 troops, 62 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 165


(in reply to jrlans)
Post #: 1190
RE: A new Plan - 8/24/2006 3:50:50 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		One of your earlier plans was to go for Singapore to get the port and repair yard. Now I know you have reservations about landing in Java, but Soerabaja can be built to a lvl 9 port. A nice place to put a naval HQ, 4 ARs and do some front-line ship repairs
(Mmm will need to secure the area from air attack and would tie down one of your Corps for defense......)

_____________________________


Banner by rogueusmc

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1191
RE: A new Plan - 8/24/2006 4:23:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am starting to feel like McClelland to many plans but not willing to play with all my pretty soldiers !!!

I need to commit to one plan and stick to it and the one thing I must do is if I commit to an attack it must be important enough to tie up a Corps for the long haul

Despite the lack of a naval yard Malaya (if not Singapore) looks good for the large numbers of good AF's.

Java just feels like an out of the way diversion all the arguments that have been made make sense but it just doesnt feel right.

Dazed and Confused a little at present.

I will spend a few more days reconning and then decide

(in reply to saj42)
Post #: 1192
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 6:21:38 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Oooh this is exciting an Omaha class CL (USS Swayback) and some DD's are going toe to toe with the mighty Yamato !!!!


I believe the cruiser is Salt Lake City..."Swayback Maru" was her nickname and IIRC the details of the ship match a Pensacola Class.


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1193
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 6:26:08 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I'm sorry, somebody catch me up here. What's the issue here? I hate to see one of the long-running PBEMs go south.

-F-


Just a game design with soooo many holes causing grief again. It's the battle of who get's to use more exploits. Be nice if they fixed the game based on a couple years of play seeing as the game was sold with inadequate testing. Can't eliminate all exploits but the basic ones like the Air model and the Naval Bombardment Model


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 1194
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 6:30:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks Ron should have realised it was a CA I Guess

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 1195
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 8:15:22 PM   
jrlans


Posts: 180
Joined: 8/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Andy assuming you bypass Java and go for Singapore, how do you intend to supply singapore? You would have to supress or escort every convoy brining in supplies. With your current Merchant Marrine losses can you safely lose more? Im not trying to argue for java but the problem in the Java Sea is there are so many bases from which PZB can launch strikes on your convoys.

If you do go for Singapore how do you plan on suppressing Java, Sumatra, N. Borneo, North Malaya, and the Vietnam area? Can you long range Cap from exsiting bases all the way to Singapore? With all those basees could you effectively invade Malaya, or would this turn into another Marianas? If PZB sees this comming and he might (based on the increse in troop #s in Singapore itself) how many A/C can he throw at you and your fleet? 500 a day? 1000 a day? Singapore to me seems like a market garden, big gain but big risk. What is the worst case senario?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1196
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 9:07:06 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Malaya without supporting bases is not possible I so want to bypass strength but in reality I am at full extension now my convoysget hit to often in the rear so I will neeed to capure bases if I am to advance.

It is which ones that I am wrestling with at present

Andy



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/26/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Balikpapan , at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 29

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 90
J2M Jack x 47
G4M2 Betty x 27
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 141
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 36

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 213

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
31 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
15 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
47 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
42 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
44 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
9 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
4 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
3 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amboina , at 39,73


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 19


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 10
B-24J Liberator x 19


No Allied losses

Runway hits 20

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 2

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 5
B-24J Liberator x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 13

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 4
Kittyhawk I x 10
Kittyhawk III x 8
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 14
Beaufort V-IX x 15
F-5C Lightning x 6
A-20G Havoc x 11
B-25J Mitchell x 12
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 125

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 2 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 2 destroyed
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 197

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
16 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x Beaufighter Mk 21 strafing at 100 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 4

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 6
P-38J Lightning x 44
PB4Y Liberator x 9
B-29 Superfortress x 118

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
40 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 190

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 25
P-40N Warhawk x 18
B-25J Mitchell x 80
PB4Y Liberator x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 68

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Manokwari , at 44,75

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
L2D2 Tabby: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 27
A-20G Havoc x 59
B-25J Mitchell x 61
B-24J Liberator x 46


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 128

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
36 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
27 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
11 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 29


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 47

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 42


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 28
F-5C Lightning x 3
PB4Y Liberator x 15
B-24J Liberator x 47


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 76

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
20 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 20

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 2
B-24J Liberator x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd NLF , at 42,68


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
TBM Avenger x 33


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x TBM Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 711th USA Tank Battalion, at 33,62

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 20

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
86 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 3

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 815th USA Tank Destroyer Battalion, at 33,62

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 22

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 3

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 24th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 33,61


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 26
B-25J Mitchell x 14
PB4Y Liberator x 6


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 destroyed
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 26

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged


Allied Ships
SC SC-631, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
DE Lamons,  heavy damage
AK Benjamin Carpenter, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Australian Victory

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 10
B7A Grace x 5
P1Y Frances x 9

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
B7A Grace: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Australian Victory
AK Benjamin Carpenter,  on fire,  heavy damage
DE Lamons,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B7A Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DE Lamons, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
DE Hilbert
AK Benjamin Carpenter,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 35,50

Japanese Ships
PG Nanpo Maru
MSW W.14
PC Shonan Maru #17
PG Nikkai Maru
PG Kyo Maru #10
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chosa Maru

Allied Ships
SS Cobia


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 23928 troops, 147 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 508

Defending force 22070 troops, 44 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 488


Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 741 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 227

Defending force 323 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 20

(in reply to jrlans)
Post #: 1197
RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/24/2006 9:37:34 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

Malaya without supporting bases is not possible I so want to bypass strength but in reality I am at full extension now my convoysget hit to often in the rear so I will neeed to capure bases if I am to advance.

It is which ones that I am wrestling with at present


Sounds like you need to consolidate your gains. Capture a couple of the larger enemy bases and use these to isolate and pound the remaining bases. No need to take them all.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1198
RE: A new Plan - 8/24/2006 9:48:12 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Aye Ron before going any deeper I am looking at Macasser Amboina and finishing off Noemfoor.

In the meantime my spearhead Divison is in sore need of 3 months rebuilding 3rd NZ has been the spearpoint to long they are withdrawing towards Darwin for a rest

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 1199
RE: A new Plan - 8/24/2006 10:29:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Been doing some reorganisation to try and accomodate new plans

11th US Corps is getting stripped of its units and sent to reserve its units are being split mamongst other forces.


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1200
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